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The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to please ... - 9/17/2008 4:38:44 AM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

I thoroughly enjoy the eroticism of a playing with a willing sub who desperately tries to please but can't and keeps trying.
What I'd like to better understand, out there, is whether this is common and if you have ideas for improving the play time activities.

By way of example, say I have a sub who is stripped naked before me, arms akimbo with hands clasped behind her neck, head sensually bowed down, eyes shyly averted toward the floor, her front-snap bra hanging open with her lovely breasts unprotected and available to my pleased gaze, who agrees to obey my every whim and command as a form of erotic foreplay. I then arrange a situation where she can't win while she obediently attempts to comply.

I could, for example, place my left palm, fingers hooked upward, into your moist pussy all the while commanding her to kneel before me, preventing her from successfully doing so, with my firm grasp upon her kitty, all the while she squirms and tries to obey my prior command. As I repeat the command, she tries even harder, eventually, I'd have to funish her as a naughty girl, and take her, bound hand and foot, over my shoulder to the bed, flip her to her backside, for a light punishment, before we try anew.

What I'd like, in this post, is to both get new ideas for such tease-and-please activity, and to better understand the motives behind the desire for such play.
Is this desire to give a command and then prevent the implementation of that command a common theme in your D/s play?

Post #: 1

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 4:47:58 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

For me personally if I felt I was never pleasing him and I was always being set up for failure I'd have to reassess my relationship with him and I'd feel we were incompatible. It would wear thin on me to know I could do nothing correct. It would start to affect my self esteem.

I can see for others though how this might be fun but for me it wouldn't since I live to be of service to my Master and to make his life easier.

This is something I would approach with care if I were you and make sure the sub you are with knows this is the agenda.

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 2

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 4:54:33 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

As long as it's in the funishment way you described then it's enjoyable. When it's serious then it's no fun at all. Helloooo subdrop. Been there. Done that. No thank you. I enjoy being with someone and being able to have intensity and laughter. Failing to do something that he really wants me to be able to do would add a tension that would be felt throughout the room. That isn't a good vibe to have.

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(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 3

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 4:55:14 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pompeii
Is this desire to give a command and then prevent the implementation of that command a common theme in your D/s play?

No it isn't. That is called setting someone up to fail. Tease and please activities having nothing to do with the above. I echo that the s-type should be made fully aware that this is tease and please and the whole scenario before engaging with it.

And funish? With all due respect Em - that really is a fucked up word and annoying the hell out of me.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 4

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 4:58:19 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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A submissive's fulfillment lies in her pleasing. Denying her that for a play session will associate play with negative reinforcement in her mind.

I cannot see how this could be a good thing for her.

_____________________________

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 5

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:01:18 AM

StrangerThan

Posts: 1515
Joined: 4/25/2008
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There are a lot of lessons in life, but this is a simple one. Always failing, even if it's just a scene, is destructive. Setting someone up to always fail is assisting, if not mandating, that evaporation of sense of self worth. Tasks can be hard. Training can be difficult. If all a person does is fail however, what do you have in the end? Either a submissive who failed you or at least perceives her/his self to have done so. There is no goal to work towards because you're not allowing them one.

In the sense you're talking about, I prefer to make the tasks or goals be difficult where they may be revisited several times, but never one that can't be completed or where failure is guaranteed. There's a truth in needing to please that sometimes they do need to please. They need that gratification, that swelling sense of having performed well, that loving stroke that tells them, you're my baby and I recognize your effort. If you don't ever allow it, the downward spiral in how they view themselves, and how they view your relationship isn't one that.. is fulfilling.

And when it comes to kink, to being who we are, isn't fulfilling that side of us a big reason why we're here and why we do what we do?

It is for me.

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 6

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:10:44 AM

TysGalilah

Posts: 589
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline

Even through something with "edge or humilation" I always know at the core of that is that I am pleasing him with my surrender and obedience.. also at that core is his desire to help me express that intense need in me ( to please him and make him proud of me).

Setting me up to fail is wounding and cruel and Tyson never harms/injures my psyche.

_____________________________

galilah

.."There are two ways of spreading light: to be the candle or the mirror that reflects it. " Edith Wharton

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 7

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:19:27 AM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

I'd be too worried about My sub getting sick and tired of putting all her effort into something only for it to be shot down and punshing Me and walking away! lol. I think it'd more health for the relationship and fun for you if you were to come up with a way of setting tasks for her to do which would take time and effort to not only complete at all but get right (as far as You were concerned at least).

Give her things to do that she'll get wrong (in your opinion), tell her she got it wrong and must try harder when she next has to do what-ever it is you set her, chastise her when you feel the need, punish her when you feel the need-for example, if You know she's not trying or working as hard as You know she can, until one day, out of the blue you tell her she's done what you wanted how you wanted it done and reward her for it.

I think this would be a better way of going about what you were talking about because You get to challenge her ans she gets to succeed for you.... but in Your time and in Your way.

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 8

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:27:33 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

There are a lot of lessons in life, but this is a simple one. Always failing, even if it's just a scene, is destructive. Setting someone up to always fail is assisting, if not mandating, that evaporation of sense of self worth. Tasks can be hard. Training can be difficult. If all a person does is fail however, what do you have in the end? Either a submissive who failed you or at least perceives her/his self to have done so. There is no goal to work towards because you're not allowing them one.

This is so true!

However, if the OP explains the scene ahead of time that his pleasure comes from watching the struggle, that the tasks themselves will be impossible but the goal is his pleasure, then the scene could work because if she pleases him by struggling to do the impossible, he will be pleased and thus she will have succeeded. But this really needs to be explained in detail ahead of time so the submissive can see that her "failure" of task is really success in goal. However, I don't know how this type of scene as the only fare offered would be fulfilling in the long run and simply would teach to accept failure. This acceptance of failure could so easily be tranfered to other areas of her life which, in my opinion, is not looking out for her best interests.

The frog in the jar experiment sums it up. You place a frog in a container that is too high for it to jump out of. After a period of time the frog will stop trying. After it has stopped trying you place the frog ina similar container but one it could easily jump out of, and it will still not try.

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to StrangerThan)

Post #: 9

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:31:45 AM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline

Most submissives generally live for the pleasure of their dominants. Deny them that for too long & too often, they will come to feel they can never please you. Then one day, you come home, & find her gone, & wonder why.

There are a couple things when I first entered the lifestyle that ring true to me. The first was to always take care of my toys, especially human ones. Caring for them involves more than making sure they have 3 square meals & make it to their doctors appointments. It means also, taking care of them emotionally as well. We can't be all things to everyone, but we can consider the whole submissive as a person with needs. The emotional ones are just as important as the others. I don't know about you, but I value the submissive who is emotionally healthy, & who's ego is not damaged. I try to treasure these as well as the other positive things about them that they bring to me.

The second is that when a submissive is rewarded with positive re-inforcement, they tend to go out of their way for you without you ever having to ask them when you need them too. This one takes time to cultivate, but it is so worth it. It is ok to let her fail now & then, but balancing that with the fulfillment of her being able to please you. That doesn't mean to make all the tasks easy ones, just attainable, even if that attainment comes from hard work. Let her know you see her effort, & that she is working towards your ultimate pleasure.

I think these will work much more to your advantage.

(in reply to HalloweenWhite)

Post #: 10

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:34:35 AM

simpleplan2

Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline

I don't understand why a submissive would keep struggling to do something that is obviously impossible. I'd try once and if I couldn't do it, now I am talking about the specific case you described, I'm simply state that I was unable to comply with your request due to your hand preventing it. Course I don't beat myself up over something I cannot do. If it continued, I'd prolly look for a new Dom.

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 11

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:35:57 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

*sigh* Can't you guys lighten up a little? The op isn't talking about all that heavy stuff. It's not always about the heavy stuff. Sometimes things can be light and playful and both parties can just have fun..

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A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 12

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:38:12 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

For me personally if I felt I was never pleasing him and I was always being set up for failure I'd have to reassess my relationship with him and I'd feel we were incompatible. It would wear thin on me to know I could do nothing correct. It would start to affect my self esteem.

This is something I would approach with care if I were you and make sure the sub you are with knows this is the agenda.

What she said.

If he wants to do stuff, he should just do it. A Dom doing this is the equivalent of a sub acting out to get spanked. And that's what you're teaching her to do.

I'd be careful, if this is something you like, to set it up only with certain parameters just so she doesn't get confused. In a role play scene, fine. Part of daily life, not so fine.
Unless you want her to act out to instigate play.

_____________________________

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(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 13

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:41:12 AM

simpleplan2

Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline

No, he's not talking about anything heavy but why doesn't he just "punish" her if that's what they both want. For that matter, why have any excuse at all? Unless it's some sort of role play, I just don't understand.

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 14

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:42:14 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

What if the Dom doesn't want to do it? What if they don't have a punishment dynamic and they are just for excuses for light spanking as mock-punishment?

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 15

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:45:34 AM

HalloweenWhite

Posts: 1028
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissIsis

Most submissives generally live for the pleasure of their dominants. Deny them that for too long & too often, they will come to feel they can never please you. Then one day, you come home, & find her gone, & wonder why.

There are a couple things when I first entered the lifestyle that ring true to me. The first was to always take care of my toys, especially human ones. Caring for them involves more than making sure they have 3 square meals & make it to their doctors appointments. It means also, taking care of them emotionally as well. We can't be all things to everyone, but we can consider the whole submissive as a person with needs. The emotional ones are just as important as the others. I don't know about you, but I value the submissive who is emotionally healthy, & who's ego is not damaged. I try to treasure these as well as the other positive things about them that they bring to me.

The second is that when a submissive is rewarded with positive re-inforcement, they tend to go out of their way for you without you ever having to ask them when you need them too. This one takes time to cultivate, but it is so worth it. It is ok to let her fail now & then, but balancing that with the fulfillment of her being able to please you. That doesn't mean to make all the tasks easy ones, just attainable, even if that attainment comes from hard work. Let her know you see her effort, & that she is working towards your ultimate pleasure.

I think these will work much more to your advantage.

I'm confused, you seem to be saying that I'm encouraging setting tasks that can't be completed but I was taking about setting tasks that take time to complete, and that through the challenge of that task, the OP gets what He wants and the sub. gets what she needs in the end-complete the task, make the Dom. happy.

(in reply to MissIsis)

Post #: 16

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:47:09 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

*sigh* Can't you guys lighten up a little? The op isn't talking about all that heavy stuff. It's not always about the heavy stuff. Sometimes things can be light and playful and both parties can just have fun..

Because it's boring? Because it doesn't push Darcy's buttons? Because it's not light and fluffy necessarily? You don't have to pretend, to be able to have fun. The OP asked a question and I responded. Darcy wouldn't get me to do something, knowing I would fail just to deal out a punishment that we would both enjoy. He would just do it. I don't desire to lighten up for something we would find a yawnfest and the dominant equilvant to bratting.

the.dark.
(.edit to add that last bit was inspired by celeste who said it way better than me.)

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/17/2008 5:50:43 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 17

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:56:55 AM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch
The op isn't talking about all that heavy stuff. It's not always about the heavy stuff.

Oh my! I generally don't butt in to threads I start because I learn immensly from the life they take on their own ... (as I am with this one) ... but I feel I must interrupt to strive to clarify as I myself am utterly shocked at the first few responses. I started thinking to myself ... oh my ... what have I done wrong here? I didn't know a twenty second denial of an act would be considered a serious detriment to the frog-in-the-jar personality. I should clarify, I've never left a mark in my life on a woman (well, that can be taken multiple ways, I realize belatedly) ... and I've never even gotten close to "yellow" as the safe-word to be uttered.

So, yes, I'm talking about really _light_ stuff here (at least in comparison to what most of the initial responses seem to be responding to). I can't imagine a life-long doomed-to-failure response from ten seconds of tease, or, well, I guess that's why I asked, maybe I am damaging her by telling her to do things that I momentarily deny so I can enjoy watching her try and (yes, this is the most important part), so she can enjoy trying to please me. I'm talking light stuff, like, "kiss me", but I pull my head away momentarily and she has to try again. Or "suck me", but I slap her face with my cock as she tries, or "on your knees" where I have a leash strategically wrapped down and up her crack so she can only get half way for about ten or twenty seconds. The "funishment" is I take her to the bed and force her to enjoy an hour-long tied up and restrained pussy licking for being a "bad girl" ...

I do appreciate the detail and life experiences (and would like more ideas) for how to tease and thwart (we're talking light here, like ten seconds of her trying to prevent me from licking her tits as I say "don't let me suck you!" and after less than thirty seconds of the "struggle", I win (she loses always) ... but of course ... I have no intention of setting her up for failure for life by these thirty seconds of frolic and thwart! Please keep ideas coming as I never thought I was "damaging" anyone's phsych by this type of demand andhinder thirty-second tease.

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 18

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 5:58:36 AM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

Yes but you guys are 24/7. The op is (from what I could glean from his profile) a top and not really a Dom per se. So in this instance, I believe he is not referring to a sub but to a bottom. Where there is no power exchange in the relationship, he may not have to worry about the same issues as a full time, tpe couple..
I saw this thread as potential wank material.
Now I'm disappointed..

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 19

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:00:13 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

I liked the scenario the OP set up. If that was me I'd be giggling the entire time and having a blast which means he'd probably be laughing just as much too. I don't think the OP meant for it to be anything other than ways to have a fun time...not ways to set your sub up for failure and low self esteem.

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(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 20

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