RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to please but can't

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RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:10:34 AM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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Fast Reply:

I see this as possibly a case of what I tried to describe in a post the other day... "there are some dominants who don't get the same enjoyment from just arbitrarily asserting their dominance. Not all dominants are sadists who enjoy seeing their sub squirm, or delight in a reddened bottom... some simply enjoy being in a position of authority and being in control. I can see how "punishing" their sub might not be as "fun" for them if the element of purpose is absent... if they didn't feel their actions had some underlying justification or accomplished some goal."

In other words, what they may enjoy most is the power that they exercise. While ordering a sub to submit to an undeserved punishment and seeing her obey is exercising their power, it might not give them the same heady feeling... it might feel boring and pointless to them. Perhaps they really enjoy the power of creating a challenge.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 21

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:15:44 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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Pompeii, I love being teased as much as the next, even better if I'm tied up, but emotionally it wouldn't work for me. I'm too invested in him, I need to know he's happy with me. And there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, it's telling her that she's a failure that so many of us are having trouble with.

Personally I can't deal with being told I failed, I'm bad etc. Even in an obvious role play scene like naughty schoolgirl - I take it to heart. We're just warning you that for a lot of us, this is an emotional no go. If it works for her, great. For me, being told I was a bad girl and therefore I'm going to be tied up and teased unmercifully would be a bad thing. Being told I'm a good girl and therefore I'm going to be tied up and teased unmercifully would be a good thing. The actions would be the same but my emotional reaction would be a lot different.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 22

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:26:13 AM

seababy

Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

*sigh* Can't you guys lighten up a little? The op isn't talking about all that heavy stuff. It's not always about the heavy stuff. Sometimes things can be light and playful and both parties can just have fun..

I agree.

I think his been fairly clear in what he is describing.
It makes it obvious to the submissive that its all about the "funishment"
(personally I like that word).

No submissive with more than two brain cells to rub together is going to agonize over a failure that is so obviously shown to be task deliberately and impossibly obstructed for the Dominants pleasure and amusement.

Looks like its just a delicious mind game to me.

Sounds joyful, and hot with a lovely amount of "Who's boss?" thrown in.
Count me in!!

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 23

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:28:20 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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Okay, another "oh no way" moment I never saw coming. My stepfather liked to tell me to do things and then prevent me from doing them. He thought it was hysterical, I thought it was annoying and stupid and boring and frustrating. Like he would tell me to go get him a soda, then as I was getting up from the couch he would grab my ankle and prevent me from going, all the while saying, "what's the matter? why can't you get my soda?" etc.

One swift kick in the nuts cured him of that little game. The week (or was it two weeks? can't remember) of being grounded was worth it.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 24

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:30:24 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy
No submissive with more than two brain cells to rub together is going to agonize over a failure that is so obviously shown to be task deliberately and impossibly obstructed for the Dominants pleasure and amusement.

Sort of a nasty remark, don't you think, when Celeste just said it WOULD bother her? And I do know other people that it would bother too.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to seababy)

Post #: 25

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:34:03 AM

seababy

Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

*sigh* Can't you guys lighten up a little? The op isn't talking about all that heavy stuff. It's not always about the heavy stuff. Sometimes things can be light and playful and both parties can just have fun..

I agree.

I think his been fairly clear in what he is describing.
It makes it obvious to the submissive that its all about the "funishment"
(personally I like that word).

No submissive with more than two brain cells to rub together is going to agonize over a failure that is so obviously shown to be a task deliberately and impossibly obstructed for the Dominants pleasure and amusement.

Looks like its just a delicious mind game to me.

Sounds joyful, and hot with a lovely amount of "Who's boss?" thrown in.
Count me in!!

Maybe when I looked at the scenario I read into it a connection between the two parties and a interacting playfulness. It made me smile. It doesnt always have to be intense (which is yummy) does it?

(in reply to seababy)

Post #: 26

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:36:41 AM

TreasureKY

Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Pompeii, I love being teased as much as the next, even better if I'm tied up, but emotionally it wouldn't work for me. I'm too invested in him, I need to know he's happy with me. And there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, it's telling her that she's a failure that so many of us are having trouble with.

Personally I can't deal with being told I failed, I'm bad etc. Even in an obvious role play scene like naughty schoolgirl - I take it to heart. We're just warning you that for a lot of us, this is an emotional no go. If it works for her, great. For me, being told I was a bad girl and therefore I'm going to be tied up and teased unmercifully would be a bad thing. Being told I'm a good girl and therefore I'm going to be tied up and teased unmercifully would be a good thing. The actions would be the same but my emotional reaction would be a lot different.

Celeste, I can relate to this as I, too, do not deal well with the idea of being a failure. Any kind of failure. I think the thing that strikes me most in this op and the other I posted in is that the responses seem to focus solely on what the sub wants and how the sub reacts. Now I firmly believe that the submissive's desires hold equal importance in a good relationship, but what gives the dominant thrills should not be dismissed. I can't speak for anyone else, but when it comes to play, we do it because of how it makes us feel... both of us. Where I might get all sub-spaey at being thrown over his knee just because he has that right, if that idea doesn't do anything for him then it won't happen.

What you point out, that is the key, is finding a partner who is compatible or willing to compromise. It isn't always hard to find a way for both people to enjoy the same activity.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 27

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:37:17 AM

natasha66

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Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
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If i as a sub were consistently set up to fail (at whatever), it would not only wear on me, but would frankly REALLY PISS ME OFF. This in my book shows absolutely no respect at all. I am not a toy to be played with at the expense of my sanity, happiness, or anything else. If it were me, i would walk.

_____________________________

"If you bother me again I shall visit you in the small hours of the night and put a bat up your nightdress".
~Basil Fawlty

Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 28

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:41:15 AM

seababy

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Joined: 6/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: seababy
No submissive with more than two brain cells to rub together is going to agonize over a failure that is so obviously shown to be task deliberately and impossibly obstructed for the Dominants pleasure and amusement.

Sort of a nasty remark, don't you think, when Celeste just said it WOULD bother her? And I do know other people that it would bother too.

Cali

It honestly was not meant nastily.
Might by fairly tackless though which is definitely my foot and mouth style.
My apologies Celeste as my post is truelly not meant to offend. Edited to add I also did not read through all the thread but simply responded and replied to the person first quoted in my post.
I'm really obviously not "getting" the negative responses here though so I'm not grasping something about this scenario.
To me it really seems light hearted. What am I missing here?

< Message edited by seababy -- 9/17/2008 7:16:45 AM >

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 29

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:55:24 AM

GabrielleSlave

Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
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My Master has done the set-up-to-fail thing with me too, but always playfully...i end up in stitches over something i can't reach because He has tied me so i can't or somesuch similar thing. He laughs too, but then (and i too love this word) funishes me! It is a lighter way to play, whether or not the physical side leaves lovely welts or not! Just a different means to an end for both of Uus. He does like to watch me try to please Him when Wwe both know it's impossible. He knows i always do my best to please in Oour relationship, so my question for Yyou guys is this - why do so many on here think it always has to be so darn serious all the time!!!

Hugs

Gabrielle x

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to seababy)

Post #: 30

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 6:56:42 AM

SimplyMichael

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

As long as it's in the funishment way you described then it's enjoyable. When it's serious then it's no fun at all. Helloooo subdrop. Been there. Done that. No thank you. I enjoy being with someone and being able to have intensity and laughter. Failing to do something that he really wants me to be able to do would add a tension that would be felt throughout the room. That isn't a good vibe to have.

Aileen, I love the word "funishment"! There is a VAST difference between setting a real task for your lover and preventing them from achieving it in order to lower their self esteem and doing it so they can struggle to TRY and please you, seeing their submission and need for you in trying to do something they can't. Of course communicating that difference is important. Nothing turns a dominant on more than knowing his partner is giving her best to try and please him.

And yes, I am back, I have some cool pictures to post in the artist section.

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 31

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:05:29 AM

tsatske

Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
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Pompeii, I agree that many on here should, perhaps, 'lighten up', although I also do get their concerns, also.
This used to be a 'hard limit' of mine, when I was a newbie sub. (no, not saying it is a 'newbie thing' - just describing ME).
My desire to please is great, and punishment is something I take to heart. Punishment HURTS - because it is punishment. What Master does for punishment (seldom) would get me yelling 'Purple' ( our code word for 'Are you fucking back there? have you started yet? a girl could get bored....) if done at play time. Because I know I disappointed him, however, it does indeed hurt.
However, somewhere along the way I learned to catogarize punishments into three catagories. What is here being called 'funishment' - simply play. Just putting a little 'You've got this coming' spice into playtime. (Master choses not to do this, but it IS fun). 'Protocol' punishments - I fucked up something that has strictly to do with BDSM protocol. Yes, it hurts, yes, i take it like punishment, yes, i make an attempt to correct it. But it does not get to my self esteem or self image. I know Damn well he is never going to release me over rather I remebered to kneel correctly, ect. It is not a relationship issue. It is BDSM.
And 'real life punishment'. Punishment over things that effect our daily lives and our relationship in a real way. These kill me. I know his disappointment in me is very real. I DO take it into my self esteem and self image, because my desire to change is great enough that taking it there, so it can effect change, is a GOOD thing. examples: the dishes don't get washed. I didn't take my meds. A check bounces.
Some are in the grey areas in between, where they fall pretty much depends on how we feel about them.

As to funishment reasons - you seem fond of teasing as part of the whole game. If the girl is capable of orgasming without permission, if she suffers, as most women do, from the inevetabilty of orgasm if stimulated enough - what about having her bound, well gagged, and teasing her to orgasm, after telling her plainly that she is to orgasm only with permission, and that you are quite likely to give her permission if she begs prettily enough - which is going to be rather hard to do, being gagged and all.

If you are into a bit of pain, struggle and all with these games, self held prediciment bondage can be fun. Being 'held by Master's will' in a challenging position - even just, for instance, holding a coin to the wall with her nose, placed high enough to keep her on her tiptoes - the point of a self held prediciment bondage is, if you do not come and release her, eventually, she WILL fail. After struggling to the point of pain, eventually she will fail, and then you have your punishment excuse. A former Master of mine used to even do this as simply as telling the girl to hold her arms in the air. One just can't keep them there forever.

There are other predicement bondages that work, as well. A girl bound in place with nipple clamps on chains, say, so that she is on her hands and knees, told to fetch a toy that is just farther than she can reach. Well, okay, nipple clamps come off, but you can place the nipple clamps so that they are tied into the rest of the bondage, so in her attempts to fetch, she will be pulling on them, and will eventually pull them off. and the punishment, of course, is for failing at such a simple fetch command.

I have also had dildos or vibes inserted in the pussy, and then, naked, been given naundane things to do and fetch around the house, after being told 'do NOT drop your toy.' and, either, told, 'Do not touch yourself', or had hands bound, to keep the girl from readjusting the toy - eventually, it will fall out.

And, so many more....

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to seababy)

Post #: 32

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:05:56 AM

OttersSwim

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This to me should be negotiated play.

I can see both sides of the fence, and agree with a lot of the posters that even the "impression" or "appearance" of failure would be hard for me to take because I want so deeply to meet Her needs and be pleasing.

On the other hand, if that sort of play was something that She wanted, then I would hope that She would explain it to me that my -effort- to comply was what pleased her, and watching me struggle gave her amusement.

But pun/fun ishment of any kind associated with my struggle would, at least for me, be pretty negative.

But some sub folk may be just fine with it and be able to separate that out. More power to ya...

_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to seababy)

Post #: 33

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:32:09 AM

CreativeDominant

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Like BSB and others, I think some folks in D/s BDSM need ... especially those who proclaim about how open-minded they are...to step back and take a look at this. The OP clearly stated that this was being done in a playful fashion. He has even come back on to state that it was explained ahead of time to the submissive/bottom what was going to occur. It seems that some have forgotten that he is talking about what is generally considered to be the "playful" side of the coin of D/s BDSM, not the "serious" side.
Treasure also brought out a good point...it is not always about the submissive. It seems ironic that many say "if he wants to do it, then why not just do it?" He IS doing it...HIS way...and his way is the way that it thrills HIM. Guess what? It isn't always about doing it the way the submissive thinks it should be done nor is it always about coddling the "fragile" submissive ego. Granted...it should be explained ahead of time but even then, how much time is devoted to that could be construed as the submissive controlling the way in which the dominant chooses to play...must explain to me first what is going on which only adds to the ironic nature of the responses of "if he wants to do it, he just should."
He is. Two brain cells would tell you that.

And yeah...I am cranky this morning.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 9/17/2008 7:42:01 AM >

(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 34

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:36:31 AM

TreasureKY

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Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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You? Cranky?

I find that hard to believe.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 35

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:42:21 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

This to me should be negotiated play.

I agree. It's all about how you set it up. About how it's discussed and communicated.

If my whole relationship is a series of tasks that I've been set up to fail, then I go through life pretty unhappy.

If I have playful scenes where I know he's going to "consequence" me, then we have fun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Not all dominants are sadists who enjoy seeing their sub squirm, or delight in a reddened bottom... some simply enjoy being in a position of authority and being in control.

People seem to equate sadism with only physical acts. The very scene he's describing is sadistic. He's getting enjoyment from her discomfort even though it's not something physical involving pain.

< Message edited by OsideGirl -- 9/17/2008 7:43:12 AM >

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(in reply to OttersSwim)

Post #: 36

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:44:39 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BossyShoeBitch

Yes but you guys are 24/7. The op is (from what I could glean from his profile) a top and not really a Dom per se. So in this instance, I believe he is not referring to a sub but to a bottom. Where there is no power exchange in the relationship, he may not have to worry about the same issues as a full time, tpe couple..
I saw this thread as potential wank material.
Now I'm disappointed..

Are people in steady (omg I sound preppy) relationships doomed to be stuck in their moment?
As a top, I would never consider this remotely interesting. As a bottom, I would find it lame. As a submissive, I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who enjoyed this. Kudos to those that do, but the OP asked a question in relation to Ds play and if it played a part. The answer in this case, for me, is no. I don't enjoy setting people up to fail because it's not fun to me. If I am flogging a person for fun, I do it. There is laughter and fun in any relationship, but I wouldn't set someone up for failiure in the same way as I don't enjoy orgasm denial. I don't get why people don't like getting no to a question.

And I tend to be picky who I share my wanking material with.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to BossyShoeBitch)

Post #: 37

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:47:36 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

You? Cranky?

I find that hard to believe.

I know...tis amazing, is it not?

(note the 5)

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 38

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:48:51 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Like BSB and others, I think some folks in D/s BDSM need ... especially those who proclaim about how open-minded they are...to step back and take a look at this. The OP clearly stated that this was being done in a playful fashion. He has even come back on to state that it was explained ahead of time to the submissive/bottom what was going to occur. It seems that some have forgotten that he is talking about what is generally considered to be the "playful" side of the coin of D/s BDSM, not the "serious" side.
Treasure also brought out a good point...it is not always about the submissive. It seems ironic that many say "if he wants to do it, then why not just do it?" He IS doing it...his way...and his way is the way that it thrills him. Guess what? It isn't always about doing it the way the submissive thinks it should be done nor is it always about coddling the submissive ego. Granted...it should be explained ahead of time but even then, how much time is devoted to that could be construed as the submissive controlling the way in which the dominant chooses to play...ironic, given the responses of "if he wants to do it, he just should."
He is. Two brain cells would tell you that.

And yeah...I am cranky this morning.

you're correct, the OP did make clear that this was a scenario intended to be light-hearted and playful. he then came back and added that the submissive would know ahead of time that this would all be about "funishment."

and of course, i am one who strongly believes that the Dominant should do what he wills, rather than placate to the submissive. however if a Dominant's intentions are for something like this to be fun and sexy, chances are it would be a mood killer for him if the submissive's response to it was frustation, depression, or a sense of failure. there are some of us (myself included) who would react very badly to something like this, no matter how clearly it was spelled out that it was all "fun and games." service and pleasing are very serious things to me...they are my entire purpose in life after all. so to fail at a commanded task would make me feel like utter crap. if he were to say, "well the whole point is for me to watch and enjoy your struggle to accomplish an impossible task," well then i'd just be very confused and frustrated. you want me to do something...but you don't? you want me to try and put me all into it...but not ever succeed? and then i will be "funished" for my failure? that just wouldn't make any sort of sense to me, the way i am wired. it'd be like some sort of cruel mind game, or at best, something trivial and silly and pointless. but then, my Master is not the sort who would ever desire such a thing, or find any pleasure/fun or value in it. we do not play games when it comes to service, and certainly not when it comes to punishment. does that make us too serious? for some here, clearly.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 39

RE: The eroticism of a sub who desperately tries to ple... - 9/17/2008 7:50:26 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

At first I read the OP as a "setting up to fail" (and not in a good way scenario). I missed the part where he said playing with a willing sub... I think with some of us "s" types, pleasing the "D" type is felt down to our core, so even in a playful way, when we feel we aren't doing what is wanted, we do feel a sense of failure and frustration.

However, the scenario described in the OP has me picturing two people who are laughing their heads off while the dom is thoroughly amused by the sub's efforts. In a situation like that, I'd find myself laughing right along with him, trying to prove "Oh yeah? I sure as hell CAN do this!!!" and then calling him things like a dirty rat bastard when I couldn't.

I experienced just the opposite, though - rather than instruct me to perform the impossible, the former master instructed me NOT to do something that took all of my energy not to. He placed his cock on my upper lip and told me to keep it there - do not lick, suck, kiss, or otherwise touch. Just hold it there. And then he laughed his ass off while I uttered "I hate you" through clenched teeth. I did finally get my reward though, but after holding the position for an endless amount of time. Sadistic s.o.b.

Oh and I hate the word "funishment," too, for what it's worth!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to pompeii)

Post #: 40

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