RE: White Privilege

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kittinSol -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:20:27 AM)
Wow. There we go with the generalisations again [>:] . quote: ORIGINAL Simple DomKen, interesting study. I have no doubt that there is race bias on ALL levels. One thing I have witnessed personally is how non-minority employers are hesitant to hire minorities because of the attitude they bring to the table. They have been snake bit in the past because threats of legal action if they corrected a minority or passed them over for promotion. It is a common attitude within the Federal system that "once you hire one you can't fire them". I can't say that all minorities adhere to this mentality. Many do walk around with a sense of entitlement and know they can throw down the race card. Many non-minorities are aware of this and resent it but keep quiet. All just observations. So when they see a resume that has an African American name (vs a European name?) they may be skittish for various reasons other then a knee jerk racist reaction. I do get tired of hearing "OH its because I am black". Eventually one has to function on his own merit and performance and take responsibility for themselves. If Obama is elected, that will remove one excuse. A nice justification for bigotry and prejudice, all nicely wrapped up in one handy paragraph. Fucking disturbing.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:24:01 AM)
quote: 2% of the US population doesn't amount to a hill of beans in political terms. Jews make up 1% of the population. Cubans make up less than that. You know why politicians pander to them? Almost all of them vote. Almost all of them are clustered into the same area, and can make or break their state or district's election. Native Americans make up significant portions of the population in some states, Oklahoma being a good example. However, Native Americans do not turn up at the polls in large numbers.

meatcleaver -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:30:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: 2% of the US population doesn't amount to a hill of beans in political terms. Jews make up 1% of the population. Cubans make up less than that. You know why politicians pander to them? Almost all of them vote. Almost all of them are clustered into the same area, and can make or break their state or district's election. Native Americans make up significant portions of the population in some states, Oklahoma being a good example. However, Native Americans do not turn up at the polls in large numbers. Their issues also coincide with US foreign policy.

cloudboy -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:35:13 AM)
quote: The attitudes are there. Would you be willing to highlight and concede that the situation ISN'T as dire as Mr. Wise is trying to make it out to be, and that just because it is his opinion, it's based not quite on fact, but more on specualtion? Of course its his opinion, and explaining perceptions is not an empirical science. I don't think the author sees anything as "dire," he just puts forth a compare and contrast analysis of the Republican Party's sudden 180. I agree with Vendeval that one could also substitute ruling class or ruling party for "white privilege."

hoodie -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:35:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Simpleslave101 DomKen, interesting study. I have no doubt that there is race bias on ALL levels. One thing I have witnessed personally is how non-minority employers are hesitant to hire minorities because of the attitude they bring to the table. They have been snake bit in the past because threats of legal action if they corrected a minority or passed them over for promotion. It is a common attitude within the Federal system that "once you hire one you can't fire them". I can't say that all minorities adhere to this mentality. Many do walk around with a sense of entitlement and know they can throw down the race card. Many non-minorities are aware of this and resent it but keep quiet. All just observations. So when they see a resume that has an African American name (vs a European name?) they may be skittish for various reasons other then a knee jerk racist reaction. I do get tired of hearing "OH its because I am black". Eventually one has to function on his own merit and performance and take responsibility for themselves. If Obama is elected, that will remove one excuse. I can't say that I understand this at all. You're telling me that simply because one's been burned in the past by an employee of a minority race, that he/she automatically attributes the whole lot as bad? Well heck if that's the case, the white race should have a really piss poor name simply because my ex husband hasn't held a job longer than 6 months since we divorced. Again..the generalizations don't fly. A white man won't vote for a black man. Doesn't mean all whites think like him. Likewise, a white man's been burned in his business by a black employee, so he won't hire anymore. Well, again, laziness, sense of entitlement, the inability to stand on one's own merit transcends all races. They are not traits exhibited by one more than another. The problem is projection, speculation, and of course, taking opinion as fact. Not all blacks are gangsters, dope pushers and criminals. Not all whites cross the street when they see a black man. But it's what the talking heads want you to believe.

hoodie -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:38:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: The attitudes are there. Would you be willing to highlight and concede that the situation ISN'T as dire as Mr. Wise is trying to make it out to be, and that just because it is his opinion, it's based not quite on fact, but more on specualtion? Of course its his opinion, and explaining perceptions is not an empirical science. I don't think the author sees anything as "dire," he just puts forth a compare and contrast analysis of the Republican Party's sudden 180. I agree with Vendeval that one could easily substitute ruling class or ruling party for "white privilege." And I think that has more to do with it than anything. Who rules? Those with money. The greenback wins all the time, no matter what.

StrangerThan -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 7:56:06 AM)
What pisses me off about shit like this is that someone picks what is, in reality, a priveledged family to begin with and somehow pulls everyone who has pale skin in the same wrapper. It's bullshit. You have a piece that targets republicans and palin, titled White Privelege. Why not make it, Palin Privelege if you want the bullet you're trying to shoot to hit the bulls eye? Or even RNC privelege? I grew up on a farm hoeing rows of potatoes so long you couldn't see the end of them, day after day, week after week, working gardens, livestock and doing it because you didn't eat if you didn't. I was the first to attend college in my family, we're talking extended family, not just immediate family, the first to graduate, the first to work in a field that didn't include some type of manual labor. I don't know what about that makes me priveleged. Maybe it was the first job I had where the pay rate was 1.35 an hour. Maybe it was growing up with a father who earned $80 a week. Maybe it was just the fact that Appalachia didn't offer a whole lot more and we felt priveleged sometimes to just be surviving. You can take this kind of crap and put it in the bin where it belongs. That's the one where you dump the same stuff from the litter box. If you want to feel guilty, fine. If you want to wrap all the world's ills on republicans and Palin, at least get the title right.

leakylee -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:03:29 AM)
now meat i have read most of your comments. i can come at this from a family historical back ground. should i feel guilty because my family had 4 plantations over a hundred years? should i feel guilty that they faught to preserve thier way of life? (which the war didnt have squat to do with slavery, that was the grass roots movement) i mean come on how long is this going to go on. in the state of FL, it will only be another decade or so before whites are in the minority groups. so where is this privelge? i mean you keep harping on the slavery in this country, but it wasnt new. (no i dont approve) every society has had slaves through out history. with your mentality, should all of us of Germanic decent hate Italians for what the Romans did to us? come on half the population of this country cant even trace themselves back to the Civil War, so why does it keep coming up? people talk about us southerners not letting that go.. sheesh.. dont we have enough facing this country with a bunch of idiots running around wanting us ALL dead, without throwing the race card. at least they are PC about it. just be an American, and they will gladly kill you. how about we grow up, get over the supremecy crap and just concentrate on surviving the next four years. lee

meatcleaver -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:11:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leakylee now meat i have read most of your comments. i can come at this from a family historical back ground. should i feel guilty because my family had 4 plantations over a hundred years? should i feel guilty that they faught to preserve thier way of life? (which the war didnt have squat to do with slavery, that was the grass roots movement) If you did read my posts you would have said that there is nothing to feel guilty about, current society is what it is, its not perfect and working for a just society is an ongoing project. However, one can be part of the problem or part of the solution, that is an individual choice.

Mercnbeth -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:39:21 AM)
quote: one can be part of the problem or part of the solution, that is an individual choice. MC, How does that apply to the society in general and the people in particular who you desire to solve with your "solution". Is there no responsibility on their part? Is there no decision on their part about how they live? That applies across racial lines. I'm a 'they'. In my 'they' world - I want to be comfortable, working for what I have, using to the best of my abilities, my intellectual and economic resources to accomplish that goal. Does my 'they' have the same freedom and liberty to do so as those who you want to direct your standard of what they should want and have? Why aren't the 'they' ever considered part of the problem? Why is it that 'they' can destroy and waste much of what entitlement programs have provided without consequence? Why is that that instead of pointing to and hating the wasted human and economic resources they are excused by the self loathing social engineers? My answer to that may not be what you expect. They don't want to solve the problem - they want and need to perpetuate it for many reasons. As some have said, "green privilege" drives their agenda. Perpetuating the status quo and making people feel the reason they are as they are is not their fault is good bureaucratic business. No bureaucracy wants to die as they would if they actually succeeded. Those 'theys' also get to feel morally superior on two fronts. Superior to those they are pretending to serve and, of course, superior to those who take a pragmatic approach to the situation and say that most people are in the condition they are because they want to be. You claim that doing something is an "individual choice", but do you apply the same attitude as a cause for the conditions you deem necessary to change to meet your 'ideal' society? Exceptions apply across the board, but speaking in generalities, as most have here, people find their own level. A good mirror defines a person much better than any social engineering program directed them away from the vision of reality that mirror provides. You're buzz word would be more accurate if, directed to whoever you have in mind when you state it; "You are the problem and the solution".

slvemike4u -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:42:40 AM)
John Kennedy asked a long time ago whether any white man in this country would willingly trade places with a black man,unfortunately to a large degree we as a society have not reached the point where this is immaterial ...and anyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.Now of course this is a generalization ,but the whole conversation is based on generalizations and as such it is appropriate....when one can say the color of ones skin truly doesn't matter than we will have reached equality...till than in this country it is still by and large a fortunate thing to be white...

popeye1250 -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:42:43 AM)
Yeah, so when do I get some of that "white priviledge?" Both sides of my family came to the U.S. from Ireland after the Civil War because of "English priviledge" and the "Penal Laws" in Ireland. I couldn't even get a job as a Cop or Firefighter and I was a Veteran in Liberal, DEMOCRATIC Massachusetts and,...I could read and write! Seems the DEMOCRATS changed the rules in the middle of the game. Funny, they promised the Veterans the fucking MOON and never delivered just like they do to the Blacks every four years! "Sure, join the military and take a chance on going to Vietnam and being killed or wounded and you'll go to the head of the hiring list for the Police and Fire." Well we all know how that worked out now, don't we? Instead it was, "can't read and write?" "Can't even pass a Civil Service test?" "Have a criminal record?" "Drop out of school with no diploma?" "Drug habit?" "No worries, we'll just make your passing score a "35" instead of a "70" and put you on the head of the hiring list." Boy, you just have to love those DEMOCRATS! Ok, so when and where do I go to claim my, "White Priviledge?" Is there like, a fucking "Office" somewhere where I go to sign up? Oh, and I want "Reparations" from England for invading and enslaving my ancesters country.

meatcleaver -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:43:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: one can be part of the problem or part of the solution, that is an individual choice. MC, How does that apply to the society in general and the people in particular who you desire to solve with your "solution". Is there no responsibility on their part? Is there no decision on their part about how they live? That applies across racial lines. I'm a 'they'. In my 'they' world - I want to be comfortable, working for what I have, using to the best of my abilities, my intellectual and economic resources to accomplish that goal. Does my 'they' have the same freedom and liberty to do so as those who you want to direct your standard of what they should want and have? Slave owners applied your argument at one time. I doubt there are many people around prepared to say the slave owners were right and the reformers were wrong.

slvemike4u -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:48:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Yeah, so when do I get some of that "white priviledge?" Both sides of my family came to the U.S. from Ireland after the Civil War because of "English priviledge" and the "Penal Laws" in Ireland. I couldn't even get a job as a Cop or Firefighter and I was a Veteran in Liberal, DEMOCRATIC Massachusetts and,...I could read and write! Seems the DEMOCRATS changed the rules in the middle of the game. Funny, they promised the Veterans the fucking MOON and never delivered just like they do to the Blacks every four years! "Sure, join the military and take a chance on going to Vietnam and being killed or wounded and you'll go to the head of the hiring list for the Police and Fire." Well we all know how that worked out now, don't we? Instead it was, "can't read and write?" "Can't even pass a Civil Service test?" "Have a criminal record?" "Drop out of school with no diploma?" "Drug habit?" "No worries, we'll just make your passing score a "35" instead of a "70" and put you on the head of the hiring list." Boy, you just have to love those DEMOCRATS! Ok, so when and where do I go to claim my, "White Priviledge?" Is there like, a fucking "Office" somewhere where I go to sign up? Oh, and I want "Reparations" from England for invading and enslaving my ancesters country. Popeye walk into a convienace store and arouse no suspicion from the proprietor...now do so as a young black male...you have recieved the benifits of white privilege your whole life(as have I )whether or not you wish to acknowledge it...better housing better schools ,easier and more readilly accesible credit...deny all you want ,but in this country (the only experience I can speak to)it is still better to be born white and poor than black and poor...those born rich of any color have lived an experience much different than mine!

Mercnbeth -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:58:21 AM)
quote: Slave owners applied your argument at one time. I doubt there are many people around prepared to say the slave owners were right and the reformers were wrong. MC - That ridiculous statement should discount your arguments for everyone; but I'm afraid it won't. Then again as is standard procedure coming from your argument to not respond but to accuse. It indicates how shallow your arguments have to be in order to take that position. There is no slavery, there is choice. I refuse to feel guilty for a condition that doesn't apply to modern US society. If your advocacy is so strong on this issue you'd serve better advocating for the cause in those countries where slavery still exists. Meanwhile, I consider your position concerning the subject at hand the most vial form of racial prejudice. I don't apply racist or economic bias to a person's problems as you do. You have such an ego that your, your standard must be applied to the people you deem are in need of help. You enable them to continue to fail because you see them as too weak to accomplish anything without your assistance. If anything - that attitude in in parallel with the slave owners you reference. I see all people capable of doing anything they like. Which is the 'slave holder' mentality? Mine, or yours which sees people incapable and wants to further their reliance on you and your ideal of what's best for them, by implementing social engineering programs directed toward them because you know better? You represent the rationalized position of a slave owner who deemed it necessary to manage the lives of other people because they weren't capable of doing so for themselves.

popeye1250 -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 8:58:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u John Kennedy asked a long time ago whether any white man in this country would willingly trade places with a black man,unfortunately to a large degree we as a society have not reached the point where this is immaterial ...and anyone who disagrees is fooling themselves.Now of course this is a generalization ,but the whole conversation is based on generalizations and as such it is appropriate....when one can say the color of ones skin truly doesn't matter than we will have reached equality...till than in this country it is still by and large a fortunate thing to be white... Slvemike, "The Kennedys", now there's some "White Priviledge" for ya! I don't know if I'd use them as an example though, the lot of them are nothing but scumbags and lowlifes.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 9:08:39 AM)
quote: Popeye walk into a convienace store and arouse no suspicion from the proprietor...now do so as a young black male...you have recieved the benifits of white privilege your whole life(as have I )whether or not you wish to acknowledge it...better housing better schools ,easier and more readilly accesible credit...deny all you want ,but in this country (the only experience I can speak to)it is still better to be born white and poor than black and poor...those born rich of any color have lived an experience much different than mine! Mike, why do young black males arouse suspicion from convenient store clerks or cabbies for that matter? You're not a racist if you notice who's robbing people. It reminds me of a story Jesse Jackson told once about being scared to death when he was walking down a street alone at night. He heard people walking behind him. When he turned he felt relieved that they were white. Why do you think that is? You can't tell me for one minute that you don't think twice about going to the ATM machine at night when you see a group of young black males in the parking lot.

meatcleaver -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 9:12:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Slave owners applied your argument at one time. I doubt there are many people around prepared to say the slave owners were right and the reformers were wrong. MC - That ridiculous statement should discount your arguments for everyone; but I'm afraid it won't. Then again as is standard procedure coming from your argument to not respond but to accuse. It indicates how shallow your arguments have to be in order to take that position. There is no slavery, there is choice. I refuse and consider your position the most vial form of racial prejudice. I don't apply racist or economic bias to a person's problems as you do. You have such an ego that your, your standard must be applied to the people you deem are in need of help. You enable them to continue to fail because you see them as too weak to accomplish anything without your assistance. If anything - that attitude in in parallel with the slave owners you reference. I see all people capable of doing anything they like. Which is the 'slave holder' mentality? Mine, or yours which sees people incapable and wants to further their reliance on you and your ideal of what's best for them, by implementing social engineering programs directed toward them because you know better? You represent the rationalized position of a slave owner who deemed it necessary to manage the lives of other people because they weren't capable of doing so for themselves. You mentioned economics, I didn't. I have simply been arguing for the equal treatment of people and all the evidence points to the fact people aren't treated equally but prejudice still undermines many blacks. However, the argument for the equal treatment of people has always been an anathema to those who see equal treatment as a danger to their economic position by the haves ever since the age of enlightenment. I have never argued for special treatment of blacks but for equal treatment, something they don't have.

meatcleaver -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 9:17:02 AM)
Merc wrote - You represent the rationalized position of a slave owner who deemed it necessary to manage the lives of other people because they weren't capable of doing so for themselves. I'm not the one prejudging blacks. I think you did that in your original post. You wrote this Merc. anout people like me I think. - Why is it that 'they' can destroy and waste much of what entitlement programs have provided without consequence? Why is that that instead of pointing to and hating the wasted human and economic resources they are excused by the self loathing social engineers? My answer to that may not be what you expect. They don't want to solve the problem - they want and need to perpetuate it for many reasons. Black people don't need social engineers, they need justice. If justice is social engineering, I'm for it.

Mercnbeth -> RE: White Privilege (9/19/2008 9:22:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Slave owners applied your argument at one time. I doubt there are many people around prepared to say the slave owners were right and the reformers were wrong. MC - That ridiculous statement should discount your arguments for everyone; but I'm afraid it won't. Then again as is standard procedure coming from your argument to not respond but to accuse. It indicates how shallow your arguments have to be in order to take that position. There is no slavery, there is choice. I refuse and consider your position the most vial form of racial prejudice. I don't apply racist or economic bias to a person's problems as you do. You have such an ego that your, your standard must be applied to the people you deem are in need of help. You enable them to continue to fail because you see them as too weak to accomplish anything without your assistance. If anything - that attitude in in parallel with the slave owners you reference. I see all people capable of doing anything they like. Which is the 'slave holder' mentality? Mine, or yours which sees people incapable and wants to further their reliance on you and your ideal of what's best for them, by implementing social engineering programs directed toward them because you know better? You represent the rationalized position of a slave owner who deemed it necessary to manage the lives of other people because they weren't capable of doing so for themselves. You mentioned economics, I didn't. I have simply been arguing for the equal treatment of people and all the evidence points to the fact people aren't treated equally but prejudice still undermines many blacks. However, the argument for the equal treatment of people has always been an anathema to those who see equal treatment as a danger to their economic position by the haves ever since the age of enlightenment. I have never argued for special treatment of blacks but for equal treatment, something they don't have. I agree that they don't have it. How does any social engineering program obtain that goal that we share? How does giving legal 'more equal' status provide for a society goal of "equal treatment"? Take economics out of the picture and focus on my point about personal accountability for the allocated assets being used. Personally I find it impossible to separate the issues. Isn't the purpose of redistribution, whether as the cornerstone of Socialism or as a tax program, economically driven? Money is being spent and wasted, especially at the bureaucratic level. I also agree as you say that "prejudice still undermines many blacks". What I don't understand is how you can not appreciate that the prejudice of low expectations and entitlement programs isn't a major cause? How to you reconcile that position? EDITED TO ADD: Since you added this: quote: I'm not the one prejudging blacks. I think you did that in your original post. Where? I advocate that anyone can achieve anything. You claim that certain people aren't capable without assistance. There is no race mentioned in either of those statement; however which one points to a people deemed inferior by the author?

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