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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:03:45 PM

leakylee

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maybe meaning that if we arent being over the head with it, that if we arent chafing our family's expectations, then maybe we are a bit freer to be who and what we feel is natural to us. i would honestly think that the feminist movement may have eased things on the male side of the s dynamic as well. although i am never to sure of that one.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:03:45 PM

fungasm

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Quick Reply: Just for entertainment's sake: Go to the other side of this site and search for female submissives between 18 and 30... there is no shortage of amazing young women who are starting to be open and explore what they crave.

It just rocks.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:04:12 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

I agree with that. I will also say that as with all things, the cycle of life will eventually turn in on itself. Even if there is a turn away from this type of living there will always be a return to what comes natural.

But how do we know that women being submissive is "natural" Look at history, many tribe existed with men being at the head, and many had women as the head, both worked for them. I think natural is different for every person.

For me submitting is natural, its simply something that makes me smile in doing as such.

For my best friend submission is the furthest thing from natural in her life. Shes much more domineering.

Its also a matter of survival to some, being submissive showing any sign of "weakness" as some might see submissives as would be them being destroyed. For me I was blessed to be in an enjoyable situation where I was raised to be who I am. Some are forced to be submissive some are forced to dominant.

So with all those factors, we must ask. What creates us to be as such, and how do we overcome our environment to bring us back to what is natural to each.

All of that was based on the ebb and flow of things and how people will always search out what they desire in spite of what they are taught by society.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:05:38 PM

VivaciousSub

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From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

theres no "value" in how fast they give submission but the fact that in this day in age they can CHOOSE to be submissive or not. There for theres much value in that choice. Because its a choice many refuse or will not take.

Correct. My closest friend wouldn't dream of submitting to a man, but that's her choice. I've always held out hope for what my mother calls 'opportunity' feminism - we have the same opportunities as men but can live our lives as we see fit, be that submissive, Dominant, vanilla or otherwise.

I choose to submit, because that's what makes me happy.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:07:26 PM

leakylee

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but the point is now there isnt such a struggle to fight society, to fight your family. life is just a tad bit easier.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:10:08 PM

Icarys

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee

but the point is now there isnt such a struggle to fight society, to fight your family. life is just a tad bit easier.

A lot of females in my view still fight against what their personal nature is.. It's not all based on society as a whole and what they have learned but it's still coming from part of it. Sure it is getting better in some respects.

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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
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http://alturl.com/mog7m

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Post #: 26

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:11:50 PM

VivaciousSub

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<FR>

There is a wonderful book I read for the first time when I was 20. I re-read it last month and it still rings very true with me.

It's called "What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us: Why Happiness Eludes The Modern Woman". It was written by Danielle Crittenden. I picked it up because I was idly flipping through one of those terrible women's magazines and read that it was *gasp* TOTALLY ANTI-FEMINIST and an INSULT TO WOMEN.

Basically, it examines the many ways in which the feminist revolution has caused discord in the lives of many women specifically in marriage, motherhood and sex. Does it advocate that all women be submissive, or that any woman submit? No, but it does note that when women ignore some of their most basic biological urges, it's almost impossible to be truly happy and fulfilled.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:11:56 PM

hopelessfool

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

A lot of females in my view still fight against what their personal nature is.. It's not all based on society as a whole and what they have learned but it's still coming from part of it. Sure it is getting better in some respects.

How do you know its their personal nature.

My personal nature to myself is submissive, You might see me as switch or Domme, and some might see it as slave.

The only person who can say they are fighting their personal nature is the person themselves. Just because you see them as x doesnt make them as such....

< Message edited by hopelessfool -- 9/21/2008 4:13:04 PM >

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:14:47 PM

angelslave77

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I think the difference is that now women have a choice you dont have to be in a male dominated relationship infact you dont have to be in a reationship at all and no one will bat an eyelid but should you chose to then at least you know you have the inner strength to walk away if that relationship becomes negative and harmful, instead of being so socially conditioned into accepting harmful (and i resist the term abuse here) behaviour that you dont feel you can leave.

I love that I am able to explore my submission and that I have a Man whom I adore and will do anything for but I also love the fact that I am a strong willful driven woman and I know what I want and can go get it .

(in reply to leakylee)

Post #: 29

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:15:41 PM

catize

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quote:

...it was completely natural.

It wasn’t, nor will it ever be, ‘natural’ for all. How would you explain the feminist movement otherwise? A percentage of people were unhappy because they were expected to be what they were not. They were forced into a role which did not fit well. Hence, the concept of choices regardless of gender.

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:16:14 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

A lot of females in my view still fight against what their personal nature is.. It's not all based on society as a whole and what they have learned but it's still coming from part of it. Sure it is getting better in some respects.

How do you know its their personal nature.

My personal nature to myself is submissive, You might see me as switch or Domme, and some might see it as slave.

The only person who can say they are fighting their personal nature is the person themselves. Just because you see them as x doesnt make them as such....

Why are you stuck on this? Personal nature in general female. Ya know? Like my own personal nature? I'm not talking about anyone specific, I'm speaking from my own personal view.(A lot of females in my view)

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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Post #: 31

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:16:36 PM

SlaveIndigochild

Posts: 272
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quote:

That it would be increasingly harder and harder for someone of my generation to find a female submissive for the kind of male dominated relationship that I wanted in comparision to 20 years ago, because society teaches women more and more that what we want isn't right.

Somewhat fallacious. Whomever suggested that to you?
look; it's simple. It's not like i remained a woman of 'my generation' whatever that means. i learn everyday and in any case my submission is NOT a social construct.
if you are having difficulties finding a submissive (or rather having difficulties with submission) then take personal responsibility for it and look within rather than to 'history' or blaming it on a generation gap.Chicks of 20 i know surprise and stun me in the stregths of their submissiveness whilst old buzzards surprise me with their stamina. (Not meant as a gender comment....it's just that i don't move in many male subblie circles).
i don't experience any such gap between my sense of submission at 50 plus and a 20 year old's submission. Although i do not totally discount the influences of fad and fashion they are just that: fad and fashion. The fashonistas always miss out in my opinion by worrying about the latest trends in collars and cuffs. It's deeper than all of that.

< Message edited by SlaveIndigochild -- 9/21/2008 4:17:39 PM >

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:17:42 PM

MadRabbit

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Thanks for all the awesome replies.

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Post #: 33

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:20:35 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild
Somewhat fallacious. Whomever suggested that to you?

That's private. If he wants to defend that opinion, I am sure he will post here.

quote:

if you are having difficulties finding a submissive (or rather having difficulties with submission) then take personal responsibility for it and look within rather than to 'history' or blaming it on a generation gap.

Perhaps you can clue me into as what post you are reading, because that certainly bares no resemblence to mine.

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Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

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Post #: 34

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:25:57 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality.

I've had to defend my choices to be submissive several times and had to explain that even though this is my choice, it's not something I'll be teaching my daughter as her only choice. I think the most confusing is when I complain about the labeling of "boy's toys" and "girl's toys" in stores. While I know there are much bigger issues out there, that annoys me. Sometimes people can write a woman off once she's made the choice to submit so women may be more relucant to at first.

I wouldn't say that it's close to extinction though. My guess is that for awhile submissive women in our age group will swear up and down that they are only doing the kinky bedroom stuff (which is somehow ok) but will seek unspoken power dynamics in their relationships. But it's just a guess based on my personal experience.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:28:12 PM

hopelessfool

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SIC I can see how someone older might see the choice as Oh my, where did all the subbies go when say if hes 50 when he was in prime age most women were submissive if they "were" or not.

ICarys: I dont see women my age fighting what it is they are. In general women do not fight being submissive or being dominant in my experience. Ive of course grown up where its completely acceptable to be a purple dinosaur if I wished to be. I was raised to be as I was no matter what path I took. My sister is dominant, my brother a switch and me a submissive. You are as I gather from your posts and this is an assumption, a few years at least my senior. Which could make all the difference for ones view.

I do however many people of many ages working on how to please ones family and ones self at the same time, which could be seen as struggling, but its not their nature that I see them as struggling. But general trying to make happy everyones opinion that matters.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:29:42 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I wouldn't say that it's close to extinction though. My guess is that for awhile submissive women in our age group will swear up and down that they are only doing the kinky bedroom stuff (which is somehow ok) but will seek unspoken power dynamics in their relationships. But it's just a guess based on my personal experience.

Actually, when vanilla women have expressed interest in me and I have explained to them what exactly I am and what being with me entails, I have gotten a reaction similar to that in more cases then less.

But then again, it's a lost easier to relate to the physical aspects of dominance than the psychological ones at first.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 9/21/2008 4:30:42 PM >

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:31:29 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelslave77

I think the difference is that now women have a choice

I think this is the root of it... Years gone by... society projected a certain image on women on their roles in relationships etc. Those projections have largely eroded in some areas and not so much in a few.

But it is a pure numbers thing... as women make new choices that is compatiable to their nature and not the doctrine that society as taught in the past... I find more women that are taking Dominant roles in there relatioship and positive flip side of men taking submissive roles. All of which are roles that is compatiable to their given nature. As such, since less women are making that society choice.. there is less women looking to be the submissive in the relationship. I have to wonder if alot of the dysfunction relationships over the past 30 plus years is because people have been or trying to living some society concept of relationships that is suits society and not to the actuall nature of the person.

Society is becoming much more tolerant and even supportative to varying relationship structures that are not traditional in societies view and this allow individuals to be spread out into greater variety of relatioships structures beyone the society sterotypes. The challenge is to find the right pond to fishin... the benefit is that we are more likely to find a partner(s) that are more natural connection to who we are and not living up to society or family sterotypes.

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Post #: 38

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:32:56 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

I dont see women my age fighting what it is they are. In general women do not fight being submissive or being dominant in my experience.

Now how is that any different as an opinion than MY opinion lol. It's a persoanl view on the women i've come into contact with either in life or from whatever means. In this case MY opinion is only and observation much like yours.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 39

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:37:49 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I wouldn't say that it's close to extinction though. My guess is that for awhile submissive women in our age group will swear up and down that they are only doing the kinky bedroom stuff (which is somehow ok) but will seek unspoken power dynamics in their relationships. But it's just a guess based on my personal experience.

Actually, when vanilla women have expressed interest in me and I have explained to them what exactly I am and what being with me entails, I have gotten a reaction similar to that in more cases then less.

But then again, it's a lost easier to relate to the physical aspects of dominance than the psychological ones at first.

It may also be a society thing. It's ok for a woman to enjoy her sexuality (because owning our sex drives and our orgasms was a powerful step towards our own choices) so it's ok to like being tied up and it's ok to be kinky. When you start enjoying it outside the bedroom, that's when you are "backsliding".

I used to go to play parties hosted by a friend and almost everyone was from the college across the street. I'd find people who thought nothing of being tied up, whipped and toyed with but the concept of fetching someone a drink because they were told to was alien to them. It wasn't a "That isn't my thing" response, it was a "You mean somebody actually lives like that?!?!" response.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/21/2008 4:38:32 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 40

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