RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?!

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RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:37:55 PM

MAMandSlave

Posts: 110
Joined: 8/15/2008
Status: offline

I have had a different experience. My late submissive/wife was a rabid feminist when I met her. She worked hard to come to terms with her masochism and submission to a male. I supported her in this as much as I was able. My current slave/wife was told by her therapist that she should explore her BDSM fantasies, and look for a dominant to participate in these activities. As a therapist, I am always surprised at the number of my colleagues I find participate in this lifestyle. Yet I also find that there is a strong bias against accepting submission in relationships. But if a self described Christian woman were to go to her therapist and say that she is submitting to her husbands will as god ordered, most therapists would find it to be adaptive and a religious issue. By the same token, when my slave describes the same type of submission to me, we have to very carefully the nature of the relationship, and the communication involved to keep the therapist from believing it is an abusive power dynamic. So i guess in my personal life I would say that being a feminist does not effect whether a woman will choose to submit, any more than being a man predisposes one to be dominant. (yes I know there are those that will argue that point, but its not the subject of this thread).

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 41

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:37:56 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

I have to wonder if alot of the dysfunction relationships over the past 30 plus years is because people have been or trying to living some society concept of relationships that is suits society and not to the actuall nature of the person.

There's that word again

Yes i think your onto something there. That's kinda what i was trying to get at that it will eventually cycle to what is natural. What ever that winds up being in society on a more personal level.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 42

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:37:57 PM

hopelessfool

Posts: 988
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

Im not saying your opinion is not valid, simply asking how you know, or how you see it as them fighting against it.

_____________________________

" I have nothing left to give, I have found the perfect end, You remain to make it hurt, disappear in to the dirt, carry me to heavens arms.....Dear Agony Just let go of me, suffer slowly, is this the way its gotta be, Dear Agony...."

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 43

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:39:21 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

this slave's 2 cents...

our society 20 years ago, just as today, encourages folks to have dominate control over themselves and their lives...anyone who has been encouraged/trained to cultivate/born with a submissive personality or mindset is met with accusations from others that they have been "abused", that they need intervention, behavior modification and/or meds.

this slave isn't talking about those submissives who's submission is viewed as "healthy" because they only do it in the bedroom, feel it inspired by "The One", or because they report it is merely one facet of their personality that they CHOOSE, within the context of a D/s relationship, under certain terms and conditions.

it has been this slave's experience over the last 5 years that MOST dominants do not want someone who IS submissive(as in, posesses a submissive nature/personality) to behave as they would naturally with the caveat of submitting to them ONLY...what they advertise for is someone who IS dominant to choose to go against their dominant nature and submit ONLY to them.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 44

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:40:28 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MAMandSlave
So i guess in my personal life I would say that being a feminist does not effect whether a woman will choose to submit, any more than being a man predisposes one to be dominant. (yes I know there are those that will argue that point, but its not the subject of this thread).

And I hope it stays that way.

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to MAMandSlave)

Post #: 45

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:41:29 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

books like that are a god send really. luckily i had one of those Bells, for a grandmother, i mean right out of the last century. a clear cut opposite to what the 'movement' preached. so i guess like anything else, a balanced perpective helps.

lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to VivaciousSub)

Post #: 46

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:43:47 PM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

I think it has always been difficult. To have any sort of genuine relationship you have to be lucky.The odds of meeting someone who fits you in all the important ways is hard enough. When you add any kind of D/s or M/s or whatever dynamic on top of that it becomes harder.

Most settle, it is what we are used to, what we see all around us. Those of us who don't or won't settle for something close, may be doomed.

My main complaint about having a lifestyle is, there is so much day to day living to be done. Bills to pay. errands to run. Perhaps we, as a group, expect too much.

Jeff

edited because I STILL need a typing slave

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 9/21/2008 4:46:07 PM >

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 47

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:43:59 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

Im not saying your opinion is not valid, simply asking how you know, or how you see it as them fighting against it.

I don't know that's why it was an opinion..I'm not sure any of us can know for sure because that would mean you would have to be..well.. all knowing. I can only take what i've seen and make an opinion on it from personal experiences..

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 48

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:44:35 PM

SlaveIndigochild

Posts: 272
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild
Somewhat fallacious. Whomever suggested that to you?

That's private. If he wants to defend that opinion, I am sure he will post here.

quote:

if you are having difficulties finding a submissive (or rather having difficulties with submission) then take personal responsibility for it and look within rather than to 'history' or blaming it on a generation gap.

Perhaps you can clue me into as what post you are reading, because that certainly bares no resemblence to mine.

Dear Mad,
clue: give up the struggle with me i suggest.
i still have the right to an ironic sense of humour.
Oh and i am a feminist slave. Willingliy stooping as low as i do is the greatest freedom i have. i don't need a dominant to tell me what i am, all i need is a dominant to appreciate who i am. And i do, thank you kindly.
It's piffle in my opinion to think that a mere 20 years in human history (what's with it with the HIStory) can change human nature.

< Message edited by SlaveIndigochild -- 9/21/2008 4:45:15 PM >

_____________________________

Formerly Prinsexx
_________________________

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iIUrLpvE3Rk&feature=related

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 49

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:46:30 PM

lizcgirl

Posts: 287
Joined: 4/13/2008
Status: offline

I think society did a 180 on the female being submissive. (this is just my opinion of my environment and those that I know, every one is different) My family was run as my dad being the 'head of the house' with my mom doing all the household chores and the stereotypical division of men-chores, women-chores. BUT, at the same time, they drilled into me about being totally independent, never submitting, that being a housewife was somehow lower than having a career, etc etc. It was a frustrating contridiction. All of my vanilla female friends are appalled at the idea of submitting to the will of another person. I have to explain it MORE than I would if I was the dominating person in the relationship. And it does seem that my younger friends are the ones even more driven to be the opposite of what was once considered to be a traditional woman. They're the ones that fight submission every chance they get, and even try to get me to fight it. I have one friend in particular who was absolutely mortified when she read some of the traits of a submission and they were describing her to a T- she freaked out. Why? If it's in you, makes you happy, why not embrace it? Because she said her family would never understand or support the fact that she gave control to a man. It confuses me because as a parent all I want is for my children to be happy, no matter what they grow up to be. It's like society is taking the same route with submission they took with being gay before it was more widely accepted, like it's a disease they need to 'cure'. There is all this emphasis on being strong, fierce, driven, etc etc. And men are the exact opposite- they all want the men to be more emotional, more submissive, more in touch with their 'feminine side'. I don't understand it. In my opinion the whole feminist movement should have been for a woman to have the CHOICE to live however she saw fit, even if that meant submitting and being the modern day version of June Cleaver. But where I live, that lifestyle is looked down on MORE than if I was strictly career orientated and used men like tissues- use once, discard. Maybe it's just my personal environment, but that's all I can give an opinion on without generalizing. I think there are more submissive women out there, but they have been trained and raised to never submit so they are fighting with what they feel inside and what every one expects of them. Hopefully those that are in that situation will find the strength in them to follow their hearts and do what is right for them, not what others expect. But it's a hard thing to do and made even harder with all the negative light being shed on the BDSM community because of fear and ignorance.

_____________________________

Never make some one a priority when all you are to them is an option.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 50

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:47:28 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild
i still have the right to an ironic sense of humour.

Yeah....ok....

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to SlaveIndigochild)

Post #: 51

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:47:32 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild
Somewhat fallacious. Whomever suggested that to you?

That's private. If he wants to defend that opinion, I am sure he will post here.

quote:

if you are having difficulties finding a submissive (or rather having difficulties with submission) then take personal responsibility for it and look within rather than to 'history' or blaming it on a generation gap.

Perhaps you can clue me into as what post you are reading, because that certainly bares no resemblence to mine.

Dear Mad,
clue: give up the struggle with me i suggest.
i still have the right to an ironic sense of humour.
Oh and i am a feminist slave. Willingliy stooping as low as i do is the greatest freedom i have. i don't need a dominant to tell me what i am, all i need is a dominant to appreciate who i am. And i do, thank you kindly.
It's piffle in my opinion to think that a mere 20 years in human history (what's with it with the HIStory) can change human nature.

Your kidding right? You think people aren't influenced by movements in history?

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to SlaveIndigochild)

Post #: 52

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 4:59:17 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I think it has always been difficult. To have any sort of genuine relationship you have to be lucky.The odds of meeting someone who fits you in all the important ways is hard enough. When you add any kind of D/s or M/s or whatever dynamic on top of that it becomes harder.

Most settle, it is what we are used to, what we see all around us. Those of us who don't or won't settle for something close, may be doomed.

My main complaint about having a lifestyle is, there is so much day to day living to be done. Bills to pay. errands to run. Perhaps we, as a group, expect too much.

Jeff

edited because I STILL need a typing slave

Yeah i could use one of those as well.

..

Add an extreme factor to the M/s and your way out on the limb. I don't see it as doomed..just waiting for a very long time lol. Thanks for the positive thoughts.

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 53

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 5:03:07 PM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

Ok... doomed may be a bit, melodramatic...:). I for one would not want a woman who felt submissive all the time, or, to just anyone

Jeff

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 54

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 5:08:44 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Recently, I was having a private discussion with a fellow CM poster I respect very much who has a few decades on me as far as life experience.

One of his opinions that really caught my eye was something that I had reflected upon a couple of times in the past.

That it would be increadingly harder and harder for someone of my generation to find a female submissive for the kind of male dominated relationship that I wanted in comparision to 20 years ago, because society teaches women more and more that what we want isn't right.

Now...don't get me wrong. I am not saying this is a BAD thing or that I wish feminism wasn't around. I would much rather spent more time looking for a partner than live in a society where one group of people were indirectly taught they HAD to do what I wanted, because of their gender.

I'm curious as to whether or not you find this perception grounded in reality.

Bud...if you know where this massive influx of Dominant women is actually coming from....do be a good soul and send them my way.

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 55

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 5:11:14 PM

leakylee

Posts: 747
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline

such as this should come with warning labels, pepsi is not good for my monitor or my nose..

thank you
lee

_____________________________

I am so not right, that I left..

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 56

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 5:12:54 PM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Ok... doomed may be a bit, melodramatic...:). I for one would not want a woman who felt submissive all the time, or, to just anyone

Jeff

Well i wouldn't want one to just drop to their knees every time a Dominant walked by but i wouldn't mind an extremely submissive female. I have had one too many brats :>

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 57

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 6:17:33 PM

impishlilhellcat

Posts: 4379
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

I routinely get hit on by men that are considerably older than the age of my mother and father. I even often times get hit on incessantly by men old enough to be my grandfather or let's say give or take five years younger than he would be today. I like older men I love older men, but come on now that's excessive. On the flip side a lot of younger dominants are either completely disrespectful, clueless, or dumber than a box of rocks. The concept of rushing things we must do this now right now, I don't care about you or your likes, we will be compatible because I own you, and the concept that there is nothing outside of BDSM and the person interested in me is going to bombard me with 50 questions is something that happens often.

I'm a switch I actually have a very submissive side, but I have to say I haven't been impressed in quite a long time with the crop of Dominants out there or the on your knees bitch emails, or you will serve me, or I own you.

Now I know I'm just lil ol me and a lot of men approach the issue that I don't need or deserve any sort of respect, one line emails, or your boobs like nice, email me on yahoo now jut don't work for me and anything of that nature is explicitly ignored. Yes in a way I'm done. Done looking for Dominants, done with the games and the (for lack of a better word) stupid emails... As someone's sig line says you aren't as great as you think you are.

I don't think it's extinction after I've written all that :P I think it's lack of a good choice or lack of interest in the Bs.

JMHO

_____________________________

Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book - Unknown

(in reply to hopelessfool)

Post #: 58

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 6:50:19 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

This looks like a white paper report. I believe there have been voluntary submissives and slaves throughout history in every type of society, the same as now. Nothing has changed.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 59

RE: The Extinction of Female Submission?! - 9/21/2008 7:15:21 PM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

this slave's 2 cents...

our society 20 years ago, just as today, encourages folks to have dominate control over themselves and their lives...anyone who has been encouraged/trained to cultivate/born with a submissive personality or mindset is met with accusations from others that they have been "abused", that they need intervention, behavior modification and/or meds.

this slave isn't talking about those submissives who's submission is viewed as "healthy" because they only do it in the bedroom, feel it inspired by "The One", or because they report it is merely one facet of their personality that they CHOOSE, within the context of a D/s relationship, under certain terms and conditions.

it has been this slave's experience over the last 5 years that MOST dominants do not want someone who IS submissive(as in, posesses a submissive nature/personality) to behave as they would naturally with the caveat of submitting to them ONLY...what they advertise for is someone who IS dominant to choose to go against their dominant nature and submit ONLY to them.

sad but true beth, sad but true. fortunately we seem to be two of the lucky ones who found Masters who actually find great value, beauty and eroticism in submissive submissives.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 60

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