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How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US history? - 9/21/2008 6:37:31 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I am surprised I don't see a thread on this topic.
Okay, here it goes.

The government needs to vote ASAP, about approving the biggest
bailout in U.S. history.
All indications show, the bailout needs to happen this week.
Our economy is in such BAD shape, that waiting 2 weeks might be too late!
The Congressional Democrats are presenting demands that they want put on
the "bailout".
The demands appear to be reasonable and I don't see forking over 700 Billion
dollars, without demands!

Democrats Present Demands for Bailout Plan - washingtonpost.com

I am not happy about the bailout, but I would be unhappier without the bailout!
How do you feel about the biggest bailout in U.S. history?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/21/2008 7:16:59 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 1
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 6:40:58 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I feel they should all be allowed to fail. My self interest , however,  hopes it comes in time.

Jeff

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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 6:47:12 PM   
MistressPav


Posts: 350
Joined: 11/14/2007
Status: offline 		The only people the gubment should be bailing out are those who have lost their homes because of massive medical bills.

If you're too stupid to read documents or too foolish not to have a lawyer explain them to you, then you should NOT be buying a house.
If you can't handle your finances and pay your bills on time, you should not be buying a house.   If you like to live above your means,
then you should not be buying a house.  What part of "adjustable rate" did you not understand before you signed all those documents
at the closing table? 

People need to take responsibility for their OWN actions.  The "Gubment" should not be bailing those out who make bad decisions.
I have ZERO sympathy. You make your bed hard, you have to sleep in it.  

< Message edited by MistressPav -- 9/21/2008 6:56:49 PM >

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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:03:57 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		lol, MistressPav on the "gubment".
 
I thought the Republicans wanted LESS of the gubment, not more!

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:04:49 PM   
BadJezebel


Posts: 138
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline 		Hold on a second, Folks.  Let's take a look at these bailouts:  What they're about and why we need them.  (I hope that someone who really knows about all of this will help me out on the subject, I'm not professing to be an expert by ANY means.)

Let’s consider the example of AIG, the world's largest insurer:  they have over 100,000 employees and their failure could shake the world's markets.  If those markets are in precarious positions already, they could potentially falter.  That could be disastrous everywhere.  What the media has most believing is that AIG lost so much money and the government had to give them between 70 and 80 Billion dollars to continue to operate.  What actually happened is that AIG over the last few quarters had to write-off  losses due to the sub-prime lending market.  These are not actual losses and theoretically, if everyone paid back their mortgages and other loans these losses would never be realized.  Anyway, AIG, among others had to write off these potential losses.  Insurance companies, in order to be allowed to operate have to have a certain percentage of money in the case that catastrophe hits and they need to pay out an insane number of claims all at once.  AIG, has plenty in assets to cover this but, it isn't all in cash.  To even out their balance sheet, they needed a 20 Billion dollar bridge but because of old regulations, they couldn't loan themselves the money.  Overnight, while the government was making the decision to allow them to loan themselves money, credit rating companies, like Moody's downgraded their credit so instead of needing to have a 20 billion dollar safety net, all of the sudden, overnight,  they needed 80.  So what the government did was give them a line of credit, NOT a check of 80 billion or so.  AIG may never need it:  First, if there are no catastrophes between now and when they can sell some of their assets (like real estate and subsidiaries that are not focused on their main lines of business), they can sure up their balance books w/o touching the money.  Second, most AIG companies are financially secure.  It's the holding company that is suffering. 

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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:16:05 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		BadJeze, as a I said in my OP, I WANT the bailouts.
We have to get them, or look at soup lines like in the 30s.
 
I want to know how people feel about NEEDING the bailouts,
especially as taxpayers.

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:17:13 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

The only people the gubment should be bailing out are those who have lost their homes because of massive medical bills.

If you're too stupid to read documents or too foolish not to have a lawyer explain them to you, then you should NOT be buying a house.
If you can't handle your finances and pay your bills on time, you should not be buying a house.   If you like to live above your means,
then you should not be buying a house.  What part of "adjustable rate" did you not understand before you signed all those documents
at the closing table? 

People need to take responsibility for their OWN actions.  The "Gubment" should not be bailing those out who make bad decisions.
I have ZERO sympathy. You make your bed hard, you have to sleep in it.  


HUH?

I think the question should be what part of the bailout did you not understand before you posted this? 

Or more to the point, what part do you understand?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/21/2008 7:20:17 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:21:06 PM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressPav

The only people the gubment should be bailing out are those who have lost their homes because of massive medical bills.

If you're too stupid to read documents or too foolish not to have a lawyer explain them to you, then you should NOT be buying a house.
If you can't handle your finances and pay your bills on time, you should not be buying a house.   If you like to live above your means,
then you should not be buying a house.  What part of "adjustable rate" did you not understand before you signed all those documents
at the closing table? 

People need to take responsibility for their OWN actions.  The "Gubment" should not be bailing those out who make bad decisions.
I have ZERO sympathy. You make your bed hard, you have to sleep in it.  


Right on Mistress!  It's these fools in Cali, Nevada and Florido who bid up houses so that legitimate, and intelligent, buyers were forced out of the marekt that I have no compassion for whatsoever.  I'm from NY originally and would visit the Wesst Coast and see "tear down" houses selling for $750,000...houses selling for $500,00 - $1,000,000 equivalent houses in the east that were selling for two-thirds or less than those crazy prices.  It was the change in federal regulations in the lat 1990's under Cuomo in Housing that allowed Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to insure loans with no income, no nothing requirements for a mortgage. Congress..both Dems and Republicans looked the other way under the largesse of huge lobby money flowing into their accounts.  It's a national disgrace for our country.  The scary thing is that the people in D.C. who caused all this to happen are now in charge of "fixing" this issue....like foxes building the fence to protect the hens.

(in reply to MistressPav)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:22:37 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I feel like we the tax payer have been robbed.

Free markets when we outsource..    but not now.

Risk now is rewarded  - so the irresponsible behavior will continue.

Wall street has done to itself what 9-11   could not.

In a world where money is the ultimate decider as to what enitites are of importance in America- this escapade does not follow that rule. The market concluded Wall street was full of lack of value... so now the tax payer- who did everything right- losses his invesntmetns AND has bigger tax-


Whats more- is we can not afford this.

This is the beginning of the end.


The CEOs looted the masses....

things will be rough.

I feel like  our country has died.    We  have no pride- now just pity- I should set up a collection drop of box for Wall Street.....

trickle down --   is not, now working.

Dummy should not loan money that dummy did not have- for property that has no value.

Now to be bailed out- with money that doesn't exist- which when it does; has no value.

See?

(in reply to BadJezebel)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:24:32 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I love these posts!
Power to the people!

Study the causes of the LAST Great Depression!
Without the BailOut, we will be looking worse than the LAST
"Black Tuesday"!
This is a wonderful link, explaining causes of the Great Depression.
 

Sliding into the Great Depression

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/21/2008 7:29:18 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:24:44 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		The conditions the Democrats are insisting on are right and proper...especially as they pertain to relief for the homeowner(can't just bail out those deemed "to big to fail") and executive compensation regulations for those institutions accepting taxpayer guarentees

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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:25:08 PM   
BadJezebel


Posts: 138
Joined: 4/29/2006
Status: offline 		ah, well I saw the thread going the other way, wanted to bring it back (because I find it interesting) and then wasn't obvious about answering the question.  The answer about how I feel is simple:  I'm upset.  The reasons are less simple:  I'm angry about the investment banks effectively repackaging the risky mortgages as potential investments.  I'm angry at the media for making average people believe that they make enough money to own a home that costs a quarter of a million dollars or more.  I'm angry at the idiot consumers that banked on hope.   zi'm angry that our system doesn't provide affordable housing for all classes, etc...

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:33:42 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Well put Jezebel.  I am certainly one thats a big personal responsibility type of person.  I have heard the "bailout for Wall Street millionaires but none for home owners garbage all this week.  I am hoping that Fannie and Freddie will be allowed to get free of the government's control in a few years.  I know we will have to take a new look at the rules and regulations that govern Wall Street and banks.  I do not like the government stepping in to bail anyone out.  In a capitalistic society, companies are free to succeed or fail.  If my small business fails, nobody is going to bail me out.  In the same respect, if I can't make my mortgage payments, I don't think the government should swoop in.  Years ago, I lost money on a stock that went bankrupt.  That was my fault, and I did not think someone owed me anything.   If you made a bad choice and bought a home you could barely afford, I am sorry but thats not my fault, and I do not want the money the government takes from me, to go to correct your error.  Learn from your mistake and move on. 
    As far as the Wall Street thing goes.  First off, they are really bailing out shareholders and foreigners who have money tied up in these companies.  They should not be helped, as they chose to make those investments, just as I did years ago.  We unfortunately, have to help right those companies as they are too intertwined in our economy, but the investors should not be made whole at our expense.  Secondly, The CEO's that got paid big to run the companies into the ground, then got paid big again with their golden parachutes, should be punished.  Congress should pass legislation outlawing golden parachutes, and making it retroactive.  They cannot be allowed to gain while we all hold the bag. 
    I realize that they had to do something.  We are too close to the edge to do nothing, but I still don't have to like it.  The rules were eased in the early 90's that got the ball rolling on all this.  Sure, the economy of the 90's were a boom time, but with every boom, there comes a bust.  Steady and sure is the only way to go, and unfortunately, we are now paying the price for the last 15 or so years.  Aside from the dot com bubble bursting in 2000, we have had an incredible run under both Clinton and Bush.  Just like going out and having a big night of drinking, the morning comes all too soon, and right now, all of our heads are hurting.  My only hope is that we learn from this, and put into place regulations to prevent us from repeating this.

(in reply to BadJezebel)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:34:52 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		I tell you what Jezebel, I need to make a move property wise next year.
If mortgage interest rates don't go DOWN, because of this bailout, I am going to be
really pissed off.
 

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/21/2008 7:37:01 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to BadJezebel)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:38:43 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		I think the US taxpayers have their back up against a wall and are facing a firing squad on this one.  We have to bail out this mess or the entire economic system will collapse.  If you have been watching the news programs some of the economic analysts are comparing this past week to the beginnings of the Great Depression.
 
 



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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:46:14 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		As bad as this sounds, we are looking at around a trillion dollars on this.  I do not like it, but its really peanuts to the looming disaster of  debt we are accumulating.  The national debt is 9 trillion.  When you add to that the Social Security and Medicare obligations through 2050, Medicare part D, and benefits for military members, we are somewhere around 53 trillion.  This is the tsunami thats coming.  Forget about national health care.  We need major changes to Social Security and Medicare NOW, or none of this will really matter much. 

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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:50:31 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BadJezebel

Hold on a second, Folks.  Let's take a look at these bailouts:  What they're about and why we need them.  (I hope that someone who really knows about all of this will help me out on the subject, I'm not professing to be an expert by ANY means.)

Let’s consider the example of AIG, the world's largest insurer:  they have over 100,000 employees and their failure could shake the world's markets.  If those markets are in precarious positions already, they could potentially falter.  That could be disastrous everywhere.  What the media has most believing is that AIG lost so much money and the government had to give them between 70 and 80 Billion dollars to continue to operate.  What actually happened is that AIG over the last few quarters had to write-off  losses due to the sub-prime lending market.  These are not actual losses and theoretically, if everyone paid back their mortgages and other loans these losses would never be realized.  Anyway, AIG, among others had to write off these potential losses.  Insurance companies, in order to be allowed to operate have to have a certain percentage of money in the case that catastrophe hits and they need to pay out an insane number of claims all at once.  AIG, has plenty in assets to cover this but, it isn't all in cash.  To even out their balance sheet, they needed a 20 Billion dollar bridge but because of old regulations, they couldn't loan themselves the money.  Overnight, while the government was making the decision to allow them to loan themselves money, credit rating companies, like Moody's downgraded their credit so instead of needing to have a 20 billion dollar safety net, all of the sudden, overnight,  they needed 80.  So what the government did was give them a line of credit, NOT a check of 80 billion or so.  AIG may never need it:  First, if there are no catastrophes between now and when they can sell some of their assets (like real estate and subsidiaries that are not focused on their main lines of business), they can sure up their balance books w/o touching the money.  Second, most AIG companies are financially secure.  It's the holding company that is suffering. 



I'm no expert either, but from my understanding it was a direct loan in exchange for 80% equity in AIG.

So,  basically the government is now the controlling interest.

AIG didn't have the cash, if they did this would not have happened.

They were the major company in credit swap default lines.  Which, from my understanding, means they were an insurer for lending institutions against businesses that defaulted on their loans.

Without such insurance the lending instititions refused to extend further credit thereby freezing the financial markets unless action was taken by the government.

It was necessary for the government to react, otherwise the economy would basically have ground to a halt.

The question is why it was allowed reach the point that this happened.

(in reply to BadJezebel)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:58:03 PM   
Joenextdoor


Posts: 145
Joined: 9/8/2004
Status: offline 		Its easy to explain why this was allowed to get to this point.  There is too much money flowing from Wall Street firms to the campaign coffers on Capitol Hill.  Oversight was nonexistant because thats what the money was for.  There are also too mouch movement of people to and from Congress and these firms.  They became to "chummy" and now we have to pay for it.

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 7:58:19 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The conditions the Democrats are insisting on are right and proper...especially as they pertain to relief for the homeowner(can't just bail out those deemed "to big to fail") and executive compensation regulations for those institutions accepting taxpayer guarentees


Good to see you out of the doghouse (or Modhouse?) 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:01:45 PM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline 		I am for orderly liquidation of companies.

I am not for bailouts.

To wit - I'm fine with what happened to Bear Stearns (essentially, shareholders were wiped out), fine with what happened to AIG (a significant loan at a penalty rate and enough equity dilution that, again, shareholders are essentially being wiped out), but less fine with things like the maneuvering for Fannie and Fraudy, and definitely not fine with a larger-scale bailout that doesn't include major penalties for shareholders.

I'm not so concerned with executive payouts; wipe out the shareholders when the shit hits the fan.  Maybe then they will figure out paying executives to take dumb risks is not a winning strategy.  Someone had to sign those paychecks (or fail to realize they were being cut).  Fuck them over.


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Profile   Post #: 20
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