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RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:02:14 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		The bail out is not news to me; however, I want people held accountable for getting us in this mess like the federal reserve, the government, and the President with his trillion dollar a day war. 
I am watching both candidates very closely.  I have been known to swing. 
I don't see myself swinging to McCain yet, but if Obama screws up, I will swing.
We are broke. How broke we are is unknown to me at the present moment. 
 
Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:03:09 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

The conditions the Democrats are insisting on are right and proper...especially as they pertain to relief for the homeowner(can't just bail out those deemed "to big to fail") and executive compensation regulations for those institutions accepting taxpayer guarentees


Good to see you out of the doghouse (or Modhouse?) 
Good to be out,thanks

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:05:13 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real_Trouble

I am for orderly liquidation of companies.

I am not for bailouts.

To wit - I'm fine with what happened to Bear Stearns (essentially, shareholders were wiped out), fine with what happened to AIG (a significant loan at a penalty rate and enough equity dilution that, again, shareholders are essentially being wiped out), but less fine with things like the maneuvering for Fannie and Fraudy, and definitely not fine with a larger-scale bailout that doesn't include major penalties for shareholders.

I'm not so concerned with executive payouts; wipe out the shareholders when the shit hits the fan.  Maybe then they will figure out paying executives to take dumb risks is not a winning strategy.  Someone had to sign those paychecks (or fail to realize they were being cut).  Fuck them over.



OK, I'm confused.
You're against bailouts but fine with Bear-Stearns and AIG which were what again?

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/21/2008 8:11:03 PM >

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:15:42 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
It would have been nice to see some kind of intervention two (2) to three (3) years ago. To me, it reflects a failure of government. You can't have the FOX guarding the henhouse and writing the regulations.

On the private side of the equation I see unethical and criminal behavior.

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:22:12 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

As bad as this sounds, we are looking at around a trillion dollars on this.  I do not like it, but its really peanuts to the looming disaster of  debt we are accumulating.  The national debt is 9 trillion.  When you add to that the Social Security and Medicare obligations through 2050, Medicare part D, and benefits for military members, we are somewhere around 53 trillion.  This is the tsunami thats coming.  Forget about national health care.  We need major changes to Social Security and Medicare NOW, or none of this will really matter much. 


The national debt is 9 trillion.  Let's say that again, 9 TRILLION.  That's as in more than a billion.  More than 999 BILLION.  I personally cannot even fathom what a trillion of anything would look like.  Yet you toss it around like, well, like peanuts.

You want to liken it to our future obligations extending to the year 2050 but you don't acknowledge we have added one TRILLION dollars to our debt in one week.  That's more than 10% of what we have accumulated in 200+ years.

But it's only peanuts, right?

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:23:00 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It would have been nice to see some kind of intervention two (2) to three (3) years ago. To me, it reflects a failure of government. You can't have the FOX guarding the henhouse and writing the regulations.

On the private side of the equation I see unethical and criminal behavior.


.
I think we need to see some major investigations going on.
We all deserve some answers here

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


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(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:24:59 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		why is a collapse so bad?


The way we are doing it now enslaves our toils for many decades to pay for this.

so a few banks close merge and go under.   thats life.

banks consolidate all the time


how is it there is no money- but if the fed then "gives" money-= then new money is there.... this makes no sense.

If I have 30 pieces of silver then 30 is what I have.   If the government has 30, no more- and no less- then where is the VALUE any greater- today VS yesderday?

if we shood back to meditate - the sharks would go at eachother- this is like volunteering years of labor enslvement  when the masses do not agree to such.   the tax rate cant go up like obama wants... and that was BEFORE we just added billoins/trillion.  So an even higher % increase would today then be needed.

...as to punishment.  it wont happen.   nothing will come of it.  at most some dudes will be questioned in a hearing..... but that is it

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:31:28 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		and another thing.

The bankers could get more. 

Easy.  Cut the TV reception -  make the TV stop for at least 48 hours. - up to a week.   Blame it on congress not approving the money package.  
This tactic the banks could add another 30% to the jack pot.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 8:34:50 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It would have been nice to see some kind of intervention two (2) to three (3) years ago. To me, it reflects a failure of government. You can't have the FOX guarding the henhouse and writing the regulations.

On the private side of the equation I see unethical and criminal behavior.


Isn't it funny that all of our McCain/Republican/Strong Bush supporters are not commenting on 
this issue?
I wonder if our McCain/Republican/Strong Bush supporters will start threads on this subject?
McCain/Bush Republican supporters, come out and play!
ollie, ollie, ox and free
 
 Economy : NPR

< Message edited by MzMia -- 9/21/2008 8:59:43 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/21/2008 11:37:14 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Anyone think that there is a snowballs chance in hell that some of the robber barons responsible for this mess will be put on trial and maybe go to prison?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
It would have been nice to see some kind of intervention two (2) to three (3) years ago. To me, it reflects a failure of government. You can't have the FOX guarding the henhouse and writing the regulations.

On the private side of the equation I see unethical and criminal behavior.


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(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 2:22:25 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The shareholders in Fannie and Freddie did lose everything as i understood it. It was the banks that gained from the bailout and not the actual shareholders.

quote:

  The shareholders of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, including many employees, will not be so lucky. The companies’ share prices have plunged about 90 percent this year, wiping out about $70 billion of shareholder value. The shares are likely to be worth little or nothing under the government’s rescue plan.


Source : http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/business/08scorecard.html

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 2:53:08 AM   
NuminousLeader


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		I would like to know what "losses" they can throw into the deal.  How will "we" the people paying for it know where the money is really going?

What losses will not be covered by this bailout?  I think the government just gave Wall Street a blank check with a never ending supply of money.  This is only the beginning, I mean it is like they just realized how bad things are last week, so for years they do nothing, now it has to be fixed in a few days with a trillion bucks????? 

If they know the money is coming, then why the need for speed, a few days is not going to end the USA, so we step back and really look at where we are throwing our money. 

Haste makes waste as they say, and boy the people in DC are sure looking to throw a trillion bucks to Wall Street as fast as they can.  Seems odd how the last several years the WH said there is no money for things that help the average person, but they sure found a trillion fast to save big business.  Go Free Market,

My 401k lost a ton of money because of this, will the bailout cover that? 

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 5:39:06 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		I have to wonder why Walstreet and government are living large printing money, and we are losing homes and jobs.
 
 
SCD

(in reply to NuminousLeader)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 5:46:21 AM   
UncleNasty


Posts: 1108
Joined: 3/20/2004
Status: offline 		Redistributing wealth in the form of corporate solialism. There is no constitutional authority for this whatsoever. None.
Yet, we are being told that this must happen, that the citizenry must take it on the chin for years to come so that a crash can be avoided.

I like quotes. They can cut through like a sharp machete. So try these:

"To protect men from the effects of folly merely populates the world with fools."   Herbert Spencer (I think)

"We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality." Ayn Rand

"Our goal is to gradually abosrb the wealth of the world."  Cecil Rhodes


Please consider this. There is news of the "wealth" that has simply disappeared as a result of various "downturns" over the past several months. How is that possible? Real things don't simply "disappear." Have we simply been chasing mirrors in the haze?

Uncle Nasty

(in reply to NuminousLeader)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 10:44:32 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


It would have been nice to see some kind of intervention two (2) to three (3) years ago. To me, it reflects a failure of government. You can't have the FOX guarding the henhouse and writing the regulations.

On the private side of the equation I see unethical and criminal behavior.


Isn't it funny that all of our McCain/Republican/Strong Bush supporters are not commenting on 
this issue?
I wonder if our McCain/Republican/Strong Bush supporters will start threads on this subject?
McCain/Bush Republican supporters, come out and play!
ollie, ollie, ox and free
 
 Economy : NPR


I noticed that too.

Especially those who have called Obama's proposed policies socialism seem strangely silent.

Imagine that!

(in reply to MzMia)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 11:08:20 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Here we go with the Taxpayer's money again!
The American People should demand that *we* have an advocate in Washington to protect the interests of the Taxpayer.
Everyone has big plans but all those plans *always* involve Taxpayer dollars!
The problem is that it isn't just Wall St or big banks, insurance cos, or mortgage companies.
Now it's foreign countries and the "U.N."
They *all* are trying to go after our money.
We need to just say *NO* to all of them!
It is not "the govt's" money to be giving away!


< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/22/2008 11:09:29 AM >

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 11:13:32 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Hummm... how do I feel about the bailouts? (somewhere between 700 billion and 1 trillion dollars worth... or about $3,400 per man, woman and child in the US)

I think it sucks.

I think it could have been averted if the banks had owned up to their mistakes in advancing credit to people who didn't deserve it, and worked with the home owners to keep them in their houses, and paying as much as they possibly could.

Instead, the banks, and especially the Bush administration sat with a finger up their asses, and now things are teetering on the edge of a possible global depression.

So, yeah, I'm pretty pissed that I'm being forced to pay for someone elses greed.

But, that's life... under republican rule.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 11:15:02 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Id like to see all the execs, speculators, investment bankers and management lose their homes, their investments their jobs and denied welfare, medicaid and not able to get anything above minimum wage jobs for  a period of time related to their employment in wallstreet etc.
But then I can be a sadistic bitch at times

White collar crime is rampant but because they are educated(hah) they dont get f***** up the ass like apparently stupid common people who have been told for how many years, american dream is something everyone can achieve. It obviously isnt
Yeah Im feeling a bit testy today
PMS rules
Lucy




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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 11:19:26 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Lucy, I agree, there have to be penalties.
And if the Taxpayers are going to bail out Wall St then we should also help homeowners!
Also, the Taxpayers should make money off of this.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: How do you feel about the biggest bailout in US his... - 9/22/2008 11:50:28 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Here we go with the Taxpayer's money again!
The American People should demand that *we* have an advocate in Washington to protect the interests of the Taxpayer.
Everyone has big plans but all those plans *always* involve Taxpayer dollars!
The problem is that it isn't just Wall St or big banks, insurance cos, or mortgage companies.
Now it's foreign countries and the "U.N."
They *all* are trying to go after our money.
We need to just say *NO* to all of them!
It is not "the govt's" money to be giving away!



Agreed.

In this case it had to happen though.  If Fannie, Freddie, and AIG were allowed to fail it would have cost us more than the bailouts.

The question is why were there policies and lack of regulation that allowed this to happen in the first place.

Another good question is why we are still being told that homeowners facing foreclosure must deal with their own poor decisions while the corporations involved are being absolved of their bad decisions and, in reality, financially rewarded.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 40
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