Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but...


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 7:51:43 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline
It'll only be available in Europe. Why? Because the ECOnetic, a five passenger, sporty hybrid, which will cost less than the Toyota Prius, runs on diesel for the tiny motor that runs the secondary electric generator. Americans, apparently, have an aversion to the fuel, so, the car will not be availble in the US. (This, even though the fuel is now cleaner than most gasoline engines, and 30% more efficient.) This perception of the US population being anti-diesel "sheeple" hasn't stopped the japanese auto makers from adopting the design, and they will be flooding the vast US market with their versions within the next few years.

Again, a US auto maker shoots itself in the foot.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 10:13:40 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
We're "anti-diesel?"
When did this happen?
I haven't noticed any protests or anything like that.


_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 10:26:57 AM   
NuminousLeader


Posts: 69
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We're "anti-diesel?"
When did this happen?
I haven't noticed any protests or anything like that.



I believe the news was mis-qouted

The USA is anti-Vin Diesel

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 10:43:38 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline
Pop. this is what the Ford "market research group" seems to have concluded. "Hockey and soccer Moms" in flyover country apperantly don't like the smelly fuel.

This car would have been a major step forward to establishing the market for the newer "clean diesels" that are now emerging to the market. But, like the CA elevtric car, and the overpriced Chevy Volt, "detroit" seems to be unable to comprehend that the US is desperately hungry for something fuel efficient, and eco friendly. It's really too bad. At 65mpg diesel... 650 miles per tank... that means you could have driven coast to coast for about the same amount of money that your Dad did back in the 1950's. (adjusted for inflation)


(in reply to NuminousLeader)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 10:53:33 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuminousLeader

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We're "anti-diesel?"
When did this happen?
I haven't noticed any protests or anything like that.



I believe the news was mis-qouted

The USA is anti-Vin Diesel


Yeah, that must be it.
What's a Vin Diesel?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to NuminousLeader)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 10:55:42 AM   
faerytattoodgirl


Posts: 5824
Status: offline
quote:

What's a Vin Diesel?


he was a crappy wrestler...very short stay in wwe...and is  now a crappy actor...same with stone cold steve austin, and the rock...all ex wwe gone actors...




_____________________________

I did not reply to your cmail.
I am flawed.
Imperfect.
MUST SPANK!!!
SPAAAAAAAANK!!!

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 11:05:53 AM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline
And "Rowdy" Roddy Piper.... (John Carpenter's "They Live")

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 12:20:33 PM   
TieNTeas


Posts: 101
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline
Emissions regulations have kept diesel cars off the market in California and New England for several years.  But, with cleaner diesel fuel, they are just able to start selling them again.

FWIW, I've read this car would be slightly more expensive than the Prius because of the current exchange rates.

(in reply to faerytattoodgirl)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 12:26:20 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
I wish I could move from the busy street.  Diesel DOES stink more the gas.

Aside from that- isnt it 'convenient"

did you know a 25 billion $ low interest loan was giving to the automakers?   they want 50 billion tho-

(in reply to TieNTeas)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 12:52:32 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline
Do you have a link for that?  I would like to read the rest of the story in more detail.  Thanks.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 1:19:40 PM   
outlier


Posts: 1111
Joined: 10/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Do you have a link for that?  I would like to read the rest of the story in more detail.  Thanks.


Vendaval,

If you enter the name "Ford ECOnetic" in Google
you will get this page of links: articles, photos. etc.

Outlier


_____________________________

Avatar from xkcd.com

"A happy sex life may take years to achieve, but it’s worth it in the long run.
Worth the time, the thought - or rather, the thoughtfulness - and, often,
the waiting." Pete Seeger

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 1:31:25 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We're "anti-diesel?"
When did this happen?
I haven't noticed any protests or anything like that.

My old man had 2 Mercedes diesels for over 20 years and finally said enough of this filthy, smelly shit. It costs me more than gas because the truckers buy it and can deduct the taxes. (I wouldn't know for sure)

Seems many here in America...have had their fill of it even though its exclusive use would bring down all fuels as it is more efficient and in fact cleaner. (less unburnt hydrocarbons) PLUS, there are far too few pumps.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/22/2008 1:32:50 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 1:32:47 PM   
shyhuzzy


Posts: 25
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
Hump,  it it does not have a diesel engine, I won't consider buying it.

(in reply to outlier)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 1:59:07 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Do you have a link for that?  I would like to read the rest of the story in more detail.  Thanks.

It's all over the TV news and papers. They are already partying on a ton of OUR cash and hell...having such a great time...wishing we were there. It feels so good...they want $25 Billion more so they can party on.

Don't you just love this thing called 'free market' capitalism. (sic)

WE should have told them...fine, and we'll take GMAC, all of their other subsidairy businesses except parts which inspite of them all being a total ripoff, couldn't make a profit and offers up along with this episode...another glarying example of what has become a unique I think American, corporate incompetence.


(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 2:29:35 PM   
TieNTeas


Posts: 101
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline
AFAIK, the $25B is to fund a 2007 bill (that already passed, but wasn't funded) to encourage auto manufacturers to convert 20 year old plants to more efficient ones.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 3:30:58 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TieNTeas

AFAIK, the $25B is to fund a 2007 bill (that already passed, but wasn't funded) to encourage auto manufacturers to convert 20 year old plants to more efficient ones.

These are federal (taxpayer) loan guarantee(s) the first of which is only now hitting their accounts. The 'entitlement' is for another $25 Billion already in the pipeline with nary a contrary voice on capitol hill. Why am I not surprised ?

They are presumably designed to do a whole lot more than encourage development. They are to use this to completely retool and get 'modernized' ostensibly for new fuel power. Should even a fucking penny of this go to executives or they declare a stock dividend then these principles involved (although money is fungible)...should go to jail.

Of course...what are we talking about here ? This is the 'big' three...part of the great American corporate culture. There are those in the industry that will tell you that unless each comes up with at least 2 new great sellers and maybe a 3rd...any of them could be living on borrowed time. Soon then, if that's correct...they will all be living on OUR borrowed money.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/22/2008 4:02:35 PM >

(in reply to TieNTeas)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 4:15:53 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline
Thank you, outlier.  I attempt to reference back to the original story from the OP so that in the discussion, we are literally on the same page. 

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to outlier)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/22/2008 11:00:51 PM   
shallowdeep


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/1/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval
I attempt to reference back to the original story from the OP so that in the discussion, we are literally on the same page.

I would guess the OP's inspiration was this piece in BusinessWeek, although probably only indirectly through one of the many sites that have picked it up.

The original post has some factual errors. The Fiesta ECOnetic is not a hybrid and, at 0-100 kph (62.1 mph) in 12.3 seconds, calling it sporty is generous. Ford's own press cites a $26,600 price tag and the BusinessWeek article claims the hypothetical US cost would be $25,700. The Prius has a $22,000 MSRP.

Diesel engine's don't need to worry about autoignition during compression, so they can more than overcome an actually inferior thermodynamic cycle with higher compression ratios. The claim of 30% improved thermal efficiency is in the right ballpark, if a little high, but the claim that they are cleaner than most gasoline engines is false. Modern diesels bear little resemblance in terms of emissions to those of decades past, and they can even best older gasoline engines, but they don't compete with modern gasoline engine designs on emissions. The Mercedes-Benz E320 Bluetec, one of only two diesel cars meeting California emissions requirements, goes to some lengths to be "clean," even utilizing a high maintenance system to inject urea into the exhaust to reduce emissions. Even so, it still only manages a Federal emission certification placing it in Bin 8, the highest allowed in California. That's well below average and allows emissions of NOx and other smog causing gases more than ten times greater than those allowed from so-called partial zero-emissions vehicles like the Prius.

I can't find a link at the moment, but I'm pretty sure I read that the Fiesta ECOnetic did not meet even those minimal California Air Resource Board requirements. Selling a car domestically without access to the markets in California and other states, like New York, that have adopted California's standards makes it much harder to turn a nice profit and, with the given prices and specs, I think Ford is actually right - it wouldn't do that well here.

In urban areas and other regions affected by smog, diesels are a big step back, not forward - at least from an environmental standpoint. I would love to see more cars in the US adopting aspects of the Fiesta ECOnetic - including a smaller and lighter vehicle, smaller engine, and low drag coefficients but, as far as I'm concerned, Europe can keep the "clean" diesels. Gasoline-electric hybrids generally offer a better solution.

(in reply to Vendaval)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/23/2008 1:15:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
When my brother bought a car and asked if added security against theft was necessary in the US, the salesman as a joke offered him a plastic diesel badge for $2 and told him there was no better security system around.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... - 9/23/2008 1:36:38 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
Diesel passenger cars don't have a good reputation in this country, and you can blame Detroit for that.  I remember my father going out and buying an Oldsmobile with a diesel in 1983, when I was 8.  We kept it for less than 2 years before he traded it for something else.  It was a piece of shit.  It was loud, smelly, and unreliable.  He had it in the shop constantly.  A lot of piece of shit diesel cars came out then, because they were trying to emulate Mercedes success with diesels.  Of course those diesels were crap, and they quickly stopped that little experiment. 

(in reply to bipolarber)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> Ford's 65mpg vehicle... but... Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094