RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources

RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:38:47 PM)
What energy sources are you for, if any? You do realize that people will starve, cook, freeze, and otherwise suffer horribly without new sources of energy, don't you? Children, the elderly, and the poor will be hardest hit, too. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And the embracing of any old dirty energy source is enviormentally irresponsible leadership

Joenextdoor -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 7:49:37 PM)
We must have a reliable source of energy. Our economy, just like any modern economy, is energy based. Without it, we have no economy. Several points.....Shell is working on an extraction method for oil shale where rods are drilled into the deposits and super heated, releasing the oil. Hopefully this will be more cost effective, as well as enviro friendly. Second point that so many who can only complain about fossil fuels is, we must have energy from some source UNTIL the point in time which we can transition to cleaner renewable sources. To just say, "oh, thats dirty energy" shows that you don't get it. We MUST continue our use of fossil fuels for the time being, but also MUST work towards the quickest transition to newer sources. Dig, drill, mine, I don't care. Just get us the energy to keep the economy going, which will fund the development of new energy sources. Don't even get me started about sending all this money to countries that hate us. I would rather pay more for energy and keep the dollars here, than less and send them there.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 9:37:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What energy sources are you for, if any? You do realize that people will starve, cook, freeze, and otherwise suffer horribly without new sources of energy, don't you? Children, the elderly, and the poor will be hardest hit, too. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And the embracing of any old dirty energy source is enviormentally irresponsible leadership They can walk.

philosophy -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/25/2008 10:21:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What energy sources are you for, if any? You do realize that people will starve, cook, freeze, and otherwise suffer horribly without new sources of energy, don't you? Children, the elderly, and the poor will be hardest hit, too. ...i'm not saying don't look for new energy, i'm saying look at each new potential source from all angles. If, as one poster here suggested, a new technique is developed for oil shale that is significently better than those working at present, then my view will change. At present, the cost of the clear up (in energy terms) pretty much nixes the idea for me. For myself, i like he idea of a two pronged approach to energy needs. Firstly decentralise the grid, so that we're not just relying on a few big plants. Secondly reduce energy consumption. The latter is to give time for a practical and sensible implementation of the former. Oh, and oil is way too good to burn when it's also the source of so much incredibly valuable plastic.

farglebargle -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:37:35 AM)
quote: What energy sources are you for, if any? Space Based Solar. It's the wave of the Future -- Today. 50 years, and we'll never have to burn another drop of petroleum. We would solve all our Foreign Policy issues, dominate the future economy, and control access to the rest of the Universe. And if we DON'T do it, the Chinese will.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 6:52:06 AM)
You would rather people starve then allow some wasteland to be mined? Real people really need inexpensive energy. To say we need to cut back means you want recession - you want people to stay home, you want farm machinery idled, you want industry moved to places like China where production is encouraged rather than penalized. We have more oil (in shale) than Saudi Arabia, so I wouldn't worry too much that we're about to run out of plastic. quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ...i'm not saying don't look for new energy, i'm saying look at each new potential source from all angles. If, as one poster here suggested, a new technique is developed for oil shale that is significently better than those working at present, then my view will change. At present, the cost of the clear up (in energy terms) pretty much nixes the idea for me. For myself, i like he idea of a two pronged approach to energy needs. Firstly decentralise the grid, so that we're not just relying on a few big plants. Secondly reduce energy consumption. The latter is to give time for a practical and sensible implementation of the former. Oh, and oil is way too good to burn when it's also the source of so much incredibly valuable plastic.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 7:14:27 AM)
Harry Reid is a traitor. I agree that until we can develop cleaner forms of energy, then lets use whatever methods we can get our hands on.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 7:54:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity What energy sources are you for, if any? You do realize that people will starve, cook, freeze, and otherwise suffer horribly without new sources of energy, don't you? Children, the elderly, and the poor will be hardest hit, too. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u And the embracing of any old dirty energy source is enviormentally irresponsible leadership Sorry about that Sanity,got distracted.....wind ,solar,geo-thermal all seem to hold promise..it is a question of research and development ,tax-credits to encourage new and viable working solutions to America's energy dependancy...not red herrings that would befoul our enviorment and divert our attention from clean sources of energy...The time for short sighted quick and dirty fixes to our energy needs is long past and should not be encouraged...

MsRobinSanders -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:05:09 AM)
www.PickensPlan.com

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:15:41 AM)
I'm all for wind, solar and geothermal but they're not enough to meet our present needs. If we've got a "red herring" such as 2 - 3 times the oil that Saudi Arabia has, maybe we should think seriously about throwing some of that "red herring" on the fire and getting some heat out of it while we're waiting for your tax credits and conservation to start catching fire: quote: GOVERNOR: PEOPLE COULD FREEZE TO DEATH Friday, September 26, 2008 Governor Patrick says there's a real possibility that people in America could freeze to death this winter due to the soaring cost of home heating fuel. Patrick met today with members of the Massachusetts congressional delegation on Capitol Hill and later testified before a House panel on the need for heating aid in cold-weather states. Patrick said the cost of heating a home -- whether by electricity, gas or oil -- is expected to cost between 20 and 31 percent more than a year ago. He said that will have an impact on many families, and not just those who are defined as low-income. The House has approved legislation to double the government's Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program to 5.1 billion dollars for the coming winter. Massachusetts would receive 163 million dollars under the plan, an increase of 36 million dollars from the last fiscal year.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:19:27 AM)
Sanity the habit of crying "the sky is falling" is not restrcted to Washington is it?

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:31:06 AM)
Are you referring to the global warming nuts, mike? quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Sanity the habit of crying "the sky is falling" is not restrcted to Washington is it?

kittinSol -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:33:25 AM)
Sanity, your ideology is sinking all around you and you still grab on to it like a man trying not to drown.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:34:28 AM)
Global Warming is a damn joke. Our good ship goes through natural temperature cycles, and this is one of them.

kittinSol -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:35:18 AM)
Here's a lifeboat: you can share it.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:38:38 AM)
This is just crap. Mindless insults. Why must you sink to this kitten? I expect this from certain others, but don't you have anything useful to contribute? Edited to add, Let's try to get back on topic. If my ideology is sinking, that means that people will be cold and hungry this winter... for lack of fuel and because of inflation brought on by higher fuel prices. quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Sanity, your ideology is sinking all around you and you still grab on to it like a man trying not to drown.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:39:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni Global Warming is a damn joke. Our good ship goes through natural temperature cycles, and this is one of them. And human activity has no impact on the current cycle?Science is a bitch it had no idealology and recognizes no preconceptions...and oh yeah it disagrees with your assesment....

kittinSol -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:43:01 AM)
There are no insults, Sanity, just facts. You're still grabbing on to a set of beliefs - denying the existence of global warming belongs to that ideology. Do you remember when the Soviet Union collapsed? What's happening at the moment isn't dissimilar. It's surprising that you don't see that.

thetammyjo -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:45:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity According to Vendeval's article, the extraction process is "environmentally challenging" phil, but that doesn't mean that concerns can't be mitigated and properly balanced against the good of the American people who truly need affordable energy and an economy that isn't funneling every last dollar overseas. An outright total ban on every energy source other than a few things like wind and solar is totally irresponsible leadership. How is this a total ban? The oil companies have huge amount of land and sea they could be drilling for oil in and they don't. Why is that? How much is this huge supply of oil? Even oil companies claim it is only 2% of the world's oil yet the USA uses 25% of the world's oil. Why exactly would these companies turn around and sell it here in the USA? They don't sell most of what they produce here now in the USA. How would you make these companies sell it here because appeals to their patriotism (laughing out loud hard at that idea) don't seem to be working. "American" companies couldn't care less about America. They care about profit and that's all. Anything other claim is BS.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:47:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I'm all for wind, solar and geothermal but they're not enough to meet our present needs. If we've got a "red herring" such as 2 - 3 times the oil that Saudi Arabia has, maybe we should think seriously about throwing some of that "red herring" on the fire and getting some heat out of it while we're waiting for your tax credits and conservation to start catching fire: Wind and solar can produce a lot of energy. The problem is timing. Winds are generally strongest (ergo greatest energy potential) in the predawn hours and early morning hours. Solar produces energy during the daytime hours only. Power grids distribute but do not store energy. As soon as the electricity is generated it has to go somewhere, and once distributed it is effectively gone. Thus, with the current power grid architectures, even if a wind farm nominally could produce the same total kilowatts as a traditional fossil-fuel generation facility over time, the output fluctuations due to changing wind conditions gives rise to the very real potential for a wind farm to underproduce power during peak periods, even though it might be able to produce more power than needed at other times. Geothermal and hydroelectric do not have these limitations, but are limited in the number of locations where that is a viable energy source. There will never be a geothermal generation plant on the Texas Gulf Coast, nor a hydro electric facility, for example. This does not mean that these energy sources are without value, or that they should not be developed with all possible haste and used as intensively as possible starting now. They should. However, even the most intensive use of these energy sources will not satisfy current energy demands, nor will they for quite some time yet. When people are starving today, the thought of ensuring steak and caviar for their grandchildren is not going to be all that high on the priority list.

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