RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources

RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:29:51 PM)
Then why ban it? The short answer, either it currently is ecologically feasible, or someone is afraid that with a little bit of research it might become ecologically feasible. quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u What pat of Miss KittySean's post did you not get Sanity? Is strip mining economicaly or ecologicaly feasible?...No is the short answer.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:31:31 PM)
Ah. Seems his issue is to keep strip mines open. This, of course, has nothing to do with starting new wind farms on sites that previously weren't energy producers.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:37:13 PM)
Your petty personal attacks aside, ken, once that windmill is on that land that land is as gone as if it had been strip mined. Sure, it can be reclaimed, but then so can ground that's been mined, and no, windmills aren't enough or the kind of power that we need. Have any of you been to a gas pump recently, or read about all the money we send overseas for oil daily? I don't need to own oil company stock to care about this if I'm an American citizen, or even if I just own a car. We can't walk everywhere we go out west, you know. Life is different when you leave the city...

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:45:18 PM)
Why not strip mine the oil shale and then plant a windfarm where the strip mine was, and make everyone happy. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Ah. Seems his issue is to keep strip mines open. This, of course, has nothing to do with starting new wind farms on sites that previously weren't energy producers.

MissKittynSean -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:45:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Then why ban it? The short answer, either it currently is ecologically feasible, or someone is afraid that with a little bit of research it might become ecologically feasible. The ban does not encompass research. Why is the idea that someone in the government makes stupid laws that aren't even applicable not acceptable to you Sanity? Many cities, states, countries have laws in place that make no sense, but they are not enforceable because no one does them. Yet at the same time, why is it also hard to imagine that this guy wants to preempt irresponsible actions of companies that would rush into something that they haven't completely researched and planned? Once it is ecologically and economically responsible, laws like these will hopefully be lifted.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:52:43 PM)
First, it's very doubtful that Reid would work this hard to ban something that nobody wanted to mine. Second, Vendeval posted a verifiable link earlier in the thread establishing that oil shale can be refined for the equivalent of $60.00 per barrel of oil, so I'd like to see your proof refuting that. Third, Americans need the jobs and they need the resources - and the lands can be reclaimed in the end. No harm, no foul. Tell the Democrats to get out of the way so that Americans of all walks of life can have the affordable fuel needed to live life in comfort.

NumberSix -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:57:45 PM)
You would ban it so that the companies cannot lease extrememely cheap leasing rights (because there is no injunction against it) and not drill what they already have laying fallow under those same sort of contracts. Drill baby, Drill, but drill what you got, no more holding land hostage. 6

MissKittynSean -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:58:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Why not strip mine the oil shale and then plant a windfarm where the strip mine was, and make everyone happy. Whoa, whoa. For a while I just thought that you were hostile because everyone was belittling your ideas and not answering your question. I was not in agreement with you, but I felt bad that you were being ganged up on for your opinion, to which you are entitled to. But if you ACTUALLY think that strip-mining the Rockies is a good idea and you are not joking, then you need some mental help. That is like saying let's turn the Grand Canyon into a landfill and reclaim the newly flat land for solar panels; or how about cutting down every tree in the Northwest to make room for organic farms? You can't create a huge ecological disaster and then put something on top of "reclaimed land" that makes green party people happy and call it a success.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 3:59:07 PM)
Not to keep strip mines open, but to allow new strip mines to be opened, creating many high paying jobs and providing affordable energy and keeping American dollars here in America. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Ah. Seems his issue is to keep strip mines open. This, of course, has nothing to do with starting new wind farms on sites that previously weren't energy producers.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:01:32 PM)
And that folks is the whole point if the thread."Tell the Democrats to get out of the way so that Americans of all walks of life can have the affordable fuel needed to live life in comfort" The democrats are behnd all that is evil and corrupt in American life....gotcha.

DomKen -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:04:18 PM)
That's funny Sanity. You do understand that oil shale will definitely run out right? Do you expect the wind to stop blowing first? Renewable energy industries are the way to go if you actually want new jobs in the US as well as energy independence. BTW mine jobs are not high paying but high tech manufacturing, like making wind turbines or solar panels, is high paying.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:04:58 PM)
Nobody is talking about "strip mining the Rockies" Sorry, and I mean no offense, but that statement is just silly! Nobody is talking about filling in the Grand Canyon, or cutting down all the trees, either. Do you have no idea how vast the West is, how much land there is out here? Come drive across it sometime, you'll be amazed by how big it is... We can mine some of it and it won't hurt a thing. quote: ORIGINAL: MissKittynSean Whoa, whoa. For a while I just thought that you were hostile because everyone was belittling your ideas and not answering your question. I was not in agreement with you, but I felt bad that you were being ganged up on for your opinion, to which you are entitled to. But if you ACTUALLY think that strip-mining the Rockies is a good idea and you are not joking, then you need some mental help. That is like saying let's turn the Grand Canyon into a landfill and reclaim the newly flat land for solar panels; or how about cutting down every tree in the Northwest to make room for organic farms? You can't create a huge ecological disaster and then put something on top of "reclaimed land" that makes green party people happy and call it a success.

NumberSix -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:07:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Not to keep strip mines open, but to allow new strip mines to be opened, creating many high paying jobs and providing affordable energy and keeping American dollars here in America. What vast mineral resources do we let lay fallow, How much of each? How long will it take us to get them in the pipline? Why strip mining? Coal Miners had good jobs, as did asbestos miners...fucked up sorta health plan when lungs werent covered. 6 6

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:09:55 PM)
quote: Your petty personal attacks aside, ken, once that windmill is on that land that land is as gone as if it had been strip mined. Actually, the windmill sits there in the midst of a working farm. Not at all, nothing, like strip mining. Nothing. Different. Not the same. Altogether something else entirely.

MissKittynSean -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:16:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Nobody is talking about "strip mining the Rockies" Sorry, and I mean no offense, but that statement is just silly! Nobody is talking about filling in the Grand Canyon, or cutting down all the trees, either. Do you have no idea how vast the West is, how much land there is out here? Come drive across it sometime, you'll be amazed by how big it is... We can mine some of it and it won't hurt a thing. And no offense to you, but your behavior on this board is pretty silly. You have no idea who I am and what I know. I LIVE in the west. Born and raised as a Cali girl (but not the vapid kind). I have spent a lot of time in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, and Nevada where I have family living. Most of my time out in those places is typically country/wilderness. I am an agriculture science major, and I spend a lot of time out in the vast openness of our region. But the locations that are prime for oil shale extraction are in the Rockies, and the amount of locations that are already on flat land or "wasteland" that are still economically viable is minimal in comparison. Mining always hurts something. It always destroys a habitat. There is no way it can ever go back to what it once was.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:16:46 PM)
As described in the OP, the oil in the shale oil deposits is equivalent to two and a half times the oil deposits of Saudi Arabia... and mine jobs have very good pay scales, which there's no need to even worry about comparing them to windfarm or windfarm tech jobs because they don't compete with each other. I'm not against wind power but, like I've said over and over again in this thread already, wind and solar isn't enough, and it's not the only kind of power that we need. The tech jobs you describe are probably all in China anyway, where a new coal powerplant comes on line every day, providing extremely dirty power for mere pennies per kilowatt hour... In other words, we're not saving the planet by refusing to access this energy source, we're more likely making things worse by sending all these jobs overseas where power and labor can both be had for cheap. Any mining and extraction process here would have to be fairly clean due to EPA regulations while in China, not so much. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen That's funny Sanity. You do understand that oil shale will definitely run out right? Do you expect the wind to stop blowing first? Renewable energy industries are the way to go if you actually want new jobs in the US as well as energy independence. BTW mine jobs are not high paying but high tech manufacturing, like making wind turbines or solar panels, is high paying.

farglebargle -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:19:07 PM)
Let's see you move forward on the plan for 'What do you do when you exhaust THIS resource' FIRST. THEN when we see that you have a RESPONSIBLE PLAN, maybe you'll get approval. But this 'we gotta drill now!' crap is the same scam they're pulling with 700 Billion for the bankers.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:22:01 PM)
Mining under some mountains won't hurt anything. We can't live and have no impact, it's as simple as that. And while it won't be like it was after the reclaiming process for a while, wildlife will be happy there, and as soon as the sun becomes a red giant it'll all be perfectly natural once again... [sm=dancer.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: MissKittynSean And no offense to you, but your behavior on this board is pretty silly. You have no idea who I am and what I know. I LIVE in the west. Born and raised as a Cali girl (but not the vapid kind). I have spent a lot of time in Utah, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, Washington, and Nevada where I have family living. Most of my time out in those places is typically country/wilderness. I am an agriculture science major, and I spend a lot of time out in the vast openness of our region. But the locations that are prime for oil shale extraction are in the Rockies, and the amount of locations that are already on flat land or "wasteland" that are still economically viable is minimal in comparison. Mining always hurts something. It always destroys a habitat. There is no way it can ever go back to what it once was.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:24:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity As described in the OP, the oil in the shale oil deposits is equivalent to two and a half times the oil deposits of Saudi Arabia... and mine jobs have very good pay scales, which there's no need to even worry about comparing them to windfarm or windfarm tech jobs because they don't compete with each other. I'm not against wind power but, like I've said over and over again in this thread already, wind and solar isn't enough, and it's not the only kind of power that we need. The tech jobs you describe are probably all in China anyway, where a new coal powerplant comes on line every day, providing extremely dirty power for mere pennies per kilowatt hour... In other words, we're not saving the planet by refusing to access this energy source, we're more likely making things worse by sending all these jobs overseas where power and labor can both be had for cheap. Any mining and extraction process here would have to be fairly clean due to EPA regulations while in China, not so much. quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen That's funny Sanity. You do understand that oil shale will definitely run out right? Do you expect the wind to stop blowing first? Renewable energy industries are the way to go if you actually want new jobs in the US as well as energy independence. BTW mine jobs are not high paying but high tech manufacturing, like making wind turbines or solar panels, is high paying. So again, seems you aren't talking about energy or wind farms, but minng. Why not just start a thread to address what you are really talking about?

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:35:00 PM)
Sorry, but I didn't realize there was a misunderstanding on your part. To access oil shale, the commonly accepted method would be to mine it. Not that there aren't other methods being considered, but this is what people usually think of when talking about developing oil shale deposits. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery So again, seems you aren't talking about energy or wind farms, but minng. Why not just start a thread to address what you are really talking about?

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