RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources

RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 4:36:55 PM)
Then what is all this opposition about wind farms?

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 5:04:19 PM)
I never said that I oppose wind farms.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 5:14:04 PM)
just laughs

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 8:22:45 PM)
I asked how wind farms are any better than strip mines, and I basically said that wind farms are ugly, a blight on the landscape, but I never said I oppose them - you're seeing things in my writing that you want to see, things that I never wrote. We need power, I understand that, and so I won't oppose wind farms. Again, strip mines are by law reclaimed at the end of their useful life into parks and nature preserves, they are given to many uses. They could even plant wind farms on top, wind farms that are ugly forever... while strip mines are not.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/26/2008 9:24:03 PM)
Oh, I see. You don't oppose ugly blights on the landscape. And we're right back to you clearly having a very limited picture of what wind farms are like. It's a few windmills in the middle of working farms, with the fields and cows just walking around them. Talk about land use! Would it be better if we shut down the working farms, threw the people, the cattle and the crops off the land, bulldozed the windmills and created a park or a nature preserve? In the middle of the country where nature already just walks across our property freely? Or should we just strip mine? You've no idea what you're talking about.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 5:35:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Oh, I see. You don't oppose ugly blights on the landscape. As I said, I know we need energy. How about yourself? quote: And we're right back to you clearly having a very limited picture of what wind farms are like. It's a few windmills in the middle of working farms, with the fields and cows just walking around them. Talk about land use! Again, you're not describing a wind farm, what you're seeing is a wind mill here and there. True wind farms take up whole canyon sides, whole mountain ridges, with one windmill after another. You know, it's funny to see you act so condescending towards me when you're clearly the one who keeps misspeaking. Here. Thank Vendeval for these links: the actual wind farms in these photos have multiple mills and are therefore easy to spot: http://app.tabblo.com/studio/stories/view/195083/ http://windeis.anl.gov/guide/photos/index.cfm http://www.wind-works.org/photos/PhotosNorthAmericanWindfarms.html quote: Would it be better if we shut down the working farms, threw the people, the cattle and the crops off the land, bulldozed the windmills and created a park or a nature preserve? In the middle of the country where nature already just walks across our property freely? Or should we just strip mine? You seem to be going off on an unrelated tangent here, but I'll take a stab at answering you. The land needed for strip mining oil shale is generally desert or high desert mountainside, and being desert there aren't many animals or people living there. Midwestern cities and farms have nothing to do with this... Tell you what - why don't you read up on it a bit and then come and try to argue your points, if you still have any when you're done with your studying. quote: You've no idea what you're talking about. I'm the one who taught you how oil shale is accessed... as it turns out, I'm teaching you a lot of things, in spite of your insulting manner.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 8:17:55 AM)
Seems you are speaking only of very specific wind farms, the few you know about. There are much better ways. Come on up and see for yourself.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 8:32:03 AM)
Go on thinking that a wind mill makes a wind farm... do you think that a pig makes a pig farm, as well? quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Seems you are speaking only of very specific wind farms, the few you know about. There are much better ways. Come on up and see for yourself.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 8:40:31 AM)
While you believe that a strip mine makes a helluva a nice park(after reclamation of course).

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 8:53:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Go on thinking that a wind mill makes a wind farm... do you think that a pig makes a pig farm, as well? quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Seems you are speaking only of very specific wind farms, the few you know about. There are much better ways. Come on up and see for yourself. Again, you've no idea what you're talking about. Define it anyway you want. That way, it can continue to mean anything you want. Convenient, sure. Just not accurate. We've hundreds of windmills, and more go up everyday. And they go up on working farms (almost everything here), adding value to land, income to farmers, and more energy. The average wind speed around the country is about 10 mph. Here it's 17 mph, as we're up relatively high and surrounded by much lower geography and then Great Lakes. Building windfarms as you describe here would be both silly and unnecessary. But continue to tell me I don't know what I'm looking at and that telling you about it instead of agreeing with you is rude, insulting, condescending, whatever you like. It's easier than accepting reality. People also build windfarms offshore, incidentally, taking advantage of the stiff ocean breezes. Not simply razing mountainsides.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 8:58:41 AM)
Actually it does, that land is good for practically any other use you can imagine. The land itself isn't destroyed, mike - and I don't know why you imagine that it would be. What are you thinking, that there's a black hole left where the mine was, sucking in any plant or animal that comes near it? The wind turbines pictured on this web page are located on a reclaimed strip mine. You see (and I think this is the third or fourth time I've repeated this for your benefit), by law any strip mine has to be reclaimed at the end of its useful life. What part of that don't you get? In order to get a permit to move any earth in the first place, money has to be deposited up front into a special account specifically set up to fund any needed reclamation. The laws and red tape that are in place governing the mining industry are mind-boggling. It's really a wonder that any mines can operate at all with all the layers of bureaucracy that are involved! quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u While you believe that a strip mine makes a helluva a nice park(after reclamation of course).

popeye1250 -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:01:50 AM)
Aren't senators supposed to be helping the country?

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:05:57 AM)
I never said anything about razing mountainsides for wind farms! Where do you get this stuff... I'm done arguing with you, it's pointless in your case. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Again, you've no idea what you're talking about. Define it anyway you want. That way, it can continue to mean anything you want. Convenient, sure. Just not accurate. We've hundreds of windmills, and more go up everyday. And they go up on working farms (almost everything here), adding value to land, income to farmers, and more energy. The average wind speed around the country is about 10 mph. Here it's 17 mph, as we're up relatively high and surrounded by much lower geography and then Great Lakes. Building windfarms as you describe here would be both silly and unnecessary. But continue to tell me I don't know what I'm looking at and that telling you about it instead of agreeing with you is rude, insulting, condescending, whatever you like. It's easier than accepting reality. People also build windfarms offshore, incidentally, taking advantage of the stiff ocean breezes. Not simply razing mountainsides.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:08:08 AM)
They're supposed to be, popeye, but I think Harry Reid must be getting bribes from the Saudis. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Aren't senators supposed to be helping the country?

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:11:10 AM)
Sanity while in operation a strip mine is a blight on the landscape...what part of that don't you get.You keep bringing this back to reclamation,before you get to reclamation you must first rape the land.....which is as good a description of strip mining as one can get.

Sanity -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:19:39 AM)
Temporarily raping a little land out West where the land knows practically no end is perfectly acceptable to me, especially when weighed against our need for affordable fuel at the pump and our need to keep American energy dollars right here at home. Yes it is. [sm=dancer.gif] quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u Sanity while in operation a strip mine is a blight on the landscape...what part of that don't you get.You keep bringing this back to reclamation,before you get to reclamation you must first rape the land.....which is as good a description of strip mining as one can get.

slvemike4u -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:23:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity They're supposed to be, popeye, but I think Harry Reid must be getting bribes from the Saudis. quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Aren't senators supposed to be helping the country? Please explain to me as if I am a 5 y/o why the Saudis would bother bribing Harry Reid,when they have Bush and Cheney in their pockets as virtual partners, albeit limited partners.

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:57:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity I never said anything about razing mountainsides for wind farms! Where do you get this stuff... I'm done arguing with you, it's pointless in your case. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Again, you've no idea what you're talking about. Define it anyway you want. That way, it can continue to mean anything you want. Convenient, sure. Just not accurate. We've hundreds of windmills, and more go up everyday. And they go up on working farms (almost everything here), adding value to land, income to farmers, and more energy. The average wind speed around the country is about 10 mph. Here it's 17 mph, as we're up relatively high and surrounded by much lower geography and then Great Lakes. Building windfarms as you describe here would be both silly and unnecessary. But continue to tell me I don't know what I'm looking at and that telling you about it instead of agreeing with you is rude, insulting, condescending, whatever you like. It's easier than accepting reality. People also build windfarms offshore, incidentally, taking advantage of the stiff ocean breezes. Not simply razing mountainsides. quote: Again, you're not describing a wind farm, what you're seeing is a wind mill here and there. True wind farms take up whole canyon sides, whole mountain ridges, with one windmill after another. From you. "Again, you're not describing a wind farm, what you're seeing is a wind mill here and there. True wind farms take up whole canyon sides, whole mountain ridges, with one windmill after another." Of course, I didn't say anything about "a windwill," either--not that a little detail like a fact slowed you down any.

MsRobinSanders -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/27/2008 9:44:33 PM)
This is a really good thread. I listened to the Presidential candidates and I didn't hear either one of them voice an Energy Plan. as in how to get off foreign oil. Did you?

Musicmystery -> RE: Reid to Renew Oil Shale Ban, Deny Americans Vast Energy Resources (9/28/2008 1:07:04 AM)
Robin, The debates have preset themes. This one was foreign policy--although clearly finance needed attention. They both have energy plans, of course. Obama's features more renewable energy, McCain more coal, nuclear plants and drilling. http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/newenergy http://www.johnmccain.com//Informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm

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