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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 2:39:32 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

So slaveboy what part of Amnesty and path to citizenship confuse you?
That is and will always be the only sane and doable way to address your issues....and BTW the Rep.Candidate for President supported a path to citizenship amnesty program....right up till he needed the support of the Republican base and the fringe right.....all of a sudden to appeal to  them he was ready to lead the roundup....but feel free to keep beating this drum,I notice you have no suggestions for overcoming the obstacles I mentioned?


I understand the Amnesty and the path to citizenship proposal.  What part of unfair do you not understand?  Millions of people come to this country LEGALLY and endure the long wait for their chance to become citizens.  But these illegals just skirt that whole process and sneak across the border.  Why should they get instant citizenship while honest people have to wait?  Oh let's just excuse the fact that many of these assholes steal other people's identity so they can work here.  Amnesty is not a plan, it's a cop out.  It's surrendering to law breakers.  My plan is to enforce the law when they catch people here illegally.  My plan is to raid worksites where illegal immigrants are reported.  Your plan is to ignore it and allow people to break our laws.  I am fully aware that McCain supported the idea, and it's a huge reason I didn't vote for him in the primaries.  Why you thought was a point to make with me is a mystery. 

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 2:50:38 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Slaveboy,others read these post's,is it possible others might find that interesting,considering he is running for President..
Who the fuck said life was fair,if life was fair everyone would be born where they wish to be with as much opportunity for a decent life in their native lands as in some far-off foreign land where you will be scorned and vilified...but life is not fair...so the fair argument basically is dead in the water.
It is about what is possible and what isn't,about seeing a situation for what it is,not what you wish it to be.
  These people are here and in far greater numbers than you or anyone else can ever hope to round up...they have families,they are entwined in the American fabric and can not be removed without tearing that fabric asunder...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 2:52:39 PM   
Maya2001


Posts: 1656
Joined: 8/22/2007
From: Woodstock ONT,CANADA
Status: offline 		Cloudboy  ..Canada's immigration policies are similiar and in some ways even worse ....Canada will deny children and spouses of  permanent legal residents here if they have ongoing health issues  inorder to protect our health care system .. there was a case in Toronto of a multi-millionaire father who wanted to bring his severely disabled son here to Canada ..and he was denied even thoough he was willing to foot the bill for any medical costs for his son... the reason  he may die or go bankrupt and the the canadian tax payer would be responsible for the long term care ...  another case denied was a husband living here who wanted to bring his wheelbound  wife from the uk here

even though canadian immigration policy does state that they do not pose the same medical restictions under family visas  they use the following loop hole to deny  disabled family members


When determining whether any person is inadmissible on medical grounds, the medical officer is obliged to consider the nature, severity or probable duration of any health impairment from which the person is suffering as well as other factors, such as:
  • The supply of social or health services that the person may require in Canada and whether the use of such services will deprive Canadian nationals of these services.





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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:00:29 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
How's about Bank Robbers, Rapists and Murderers, do they get "amnesty" too?

Read my first post in this thread. You just might learn something.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:07:27 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Inevitably, each thread on immigration policy degenerates into a 'let's bash the illegals" fest. It's tired: lots of us aliens are perfectly legal and still have to bear the brunt of a labyrinthian and often misleading process where there is absolutely NO margin for error. Even the Immigration Services make mistakes, but guess what? When they fuck up, the applicants pay anyway (I speak from painful knowledge).

There are human consequences to immigration rules: and when the rules are illogical and badly applied, real people, with real stories, get tangled up in the red tape. I wish people would read up on the subject before spouting off the usual cliches: there is much to be done to simplify the process - since money matters, think of it this way: a simplified process will cost less money to implement than a crazy Kafkaesque one.

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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:08:45 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		And might actually have a chance to work?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:10:32 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

Slaveboy,others read these post's,is it possible others might find that interesting,considering he is running for President..
Who the fuck said life was fair,if life was fair everyone would be born where they wish to be with as much opportunity for a decent life in their native lands as in some far-off foreign land where you will be scorned and vilified...but life is not fair...so the fair argument basically is dead in the water.
It is about what is possible and what isn't,about seeing a situation for what it is,not what you wish it to be.
These people are here and in far greater numbers than you or anyone else can ever hope to round up...they have families,they are entwined in the American fabric and can not be removed without tearing that fabric asunder...


You directed your post towards me, so spare me your claim of altruism.  You're were trying to play "gotcha" with your McCain remark.  Life is not fair, but the law is supposed to be.  When the law is not fairly enforced, we have chaos. 

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:25:00 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		And when the law is unenforcible ...it is time to rewrite some laws.I make no pretensions to altruism,but because a post is directed towards you does not mean you and you alone comprise the audience..

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:31:02 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
How's about Bank Robbers, Rapists and Murderers, do they get "amnesty" too?

Read my first post in this thread. You just might learn something.


DomKen, you mean ex post facto?
Kittin, I agree that laws should be streamlined for *legal* immigrants but that we should only let in a reasonable amount of immigrants a year, say 100,000 not 3 million like in 2005.
Immigration laws are also used to keep people out as well.
We simply can't have 20-30 million illegals in the U.S.
Slvemike is right when he says we need to go after the people who hire illegals. I have no problem sending them to prison for 3-5 years and I mean Atlanta Federal Prison, a real hellhole where they could do hard labor like breaking rocks with sledgehammers in 100 degree temps.
And when they got out they'd be convicted federal felons and lucky to get a job bagging groceries for $8 an hour.
Then people could ostracise them and really fuck with them!
"Heyyyy! Where's the Mercedes?
"And what happened to that fancy house you *used to have?"
Then the jobs for illegals would dry up.

P.S. Kittin, you're right *Immigrants* shouldn't be lumped in with illegal aliens.
That's apples and oranges and it's usually the people who want some type of "amnesty" for illegal aliens who are trying to do the lumping by referring to illegal aliens as,....."immigrants."
No-one is "anti-immigrant" but most Americans are "anti-illegal alien."


< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/26/2008 3:44:19 PM >

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"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:31:44 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		As Popeye pointed out, the law is not unenforceable.  We might not get rid of all of them, but we sure as hell can send a message that it won't be tolerated anymore. 

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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:37:49 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		According to the flow diagrammed cartoon all I have to do to get into the US is keep saying yes.

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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:39:38 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

We simply can't have 20-30 million illegals in the U.S.



I agree that it is those employers who exploit illegal immigrants who should be pursued with all the might of the law, but where did you get the above figure from? It's astronomical.

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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:39:45 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Well if your going to cite popeye,you better check if his number is right ...and start building a hell of a system to process these 30 million illegal immigrants,because unlike what a prevous poster said...they do have rights and one of them is a right to due process.And than there is the problem of family's you better be prepared to rip apart...you know some of these people have had babies here and they ARE American citizens(unless you are now willing to rewrite some laws..)So deport their parets and assume responsibility for these young underage citizens.....a hell f a kettle of fish...huh?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 9/26/2008 4:06:15 PM >

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to slaveboyforyou)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:51:41 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Mike, I've heard estimates of 15-20 million illegal immigrants.  I assume that's a conservative estimate.  Popeye's numbers could very well be correct.  I don't feel guilty at all when we deport someone that has had children here.  It's they that put themselves in that situation, not I.  I am all for reforming our current immigration laws and making it easier for people to become citizens.  But we have to have a process, and everyone has to wait their turn.  You can't have one system for the people who ignore the law, and one for those that obey it. 

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RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 3:59:50 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well if your going to cite popeye,you better check if his number is right ...and start building a hell of a system to process these 30 million illegal immigrants,because unlike what a prevous poster said...they do have rights and one of them is a right to ue process.And than their is the problem of family's you better be prepared to rip apart...you know some of these people have had babies here and they ARE American citizens(unless you are now willing to rewrite some laws..)So deport their parets and assume responsibility for these young underage citizens.....a hell f a kettle of fish...huh?

Mike, no problem, that could be done in a few years.
And, most of the "rights" that illegals "have" in this country are in the criminal sections of the law.
As for children born in this country to illegal aliens most people don't think they are "U.S. Citizens."
The 14th amendment was made to give "full citizenship" to "freed slaves" not to give citizenship to the offspring of people here illegally.
It's not even a "loophole".
Since all the "freed slaves" were granted "full citizenship" many years ago there's no reason that it can't be stricken entirely.
It just needs to be clarified with a few words which can be done very easily.
I don't know of anyone who thinks that it was drafted for the purpose of giving citizenship to the offspring of people who sneak into our country, how did they get to that conclusion?
Also, it is a federal felony to gain entrance into the U.S. other than through a "legal port of entry."
And, it's a federal felony to use the *number* on a social security card illegally.
And, in many states it's a felony to have a phoney driver's lisense.
There are American Citizens in prisons for doing the above things.
Illegal aliens get a "pass" on the same things?
Slvemike. we all know that the current govt is a fucking nightmare *because* they don't or won't enforce our laws.
I really don't think that it's unreasonable for us as Citizens to *expect* our government to do it's job and enforce our laws, do you?
Or as KittinSol said a few months back; "All laws should be enforced!"

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/26/2008 4:03:20 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 4:12:43 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		And an amnesty plan that streamlines the path for citizenship to those already here,can also address through fines and such those laws they broke in coming here
Do either of you realise how much of our resources both in man-hours and treasure it would take to round-up and deport these people.Do either of you care?A sane and humane plan would decriminalize these people and layout a clear and doable path to citizenship while allowing us to switch enforcement resources to actually closing the borders.....shutting the door after the horses have left has allways been futile.....might as well tilt at windmills.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 4:17:07 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And an amnesty plan that streamlines the path for citizenship to those already here,can also address through fines and such those laws they broke in coming here
Do either of you realise how much of our resources both in man-hours and treasure it would take to round-up and deport these people.Do either of you care?A sane and humane plan would decriminalize these people and layout a clear and doable path to citizenship while allowing us to switch enforcement resources to actually closing the borders.....shutting the door after the horses have left has allways been futile.....might as well tilt at windmills.


Slvemike, felonys federal or otherwise are *disqualifers* for U.S. Citizenship.
Plus, the American People have made it unmistakably clear to congressmen and senators that we want no part of any type of "amnesty."
We broke the U.S. Senate phone system last year!
If we dry up the jobs there'll be millions "self-deporting" within 30 days.

P.S. slvemike, if yer man Obama would come out and *pledge* to enforce our immigration laws and get rid of the 20-30 illegals here now and put curbs on legal immigration he'd be a shoe-in!
Many of us Independant voters would vote for him!
And, neither he nor McCain can win without us Independants!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/26/2008 4:24:32 PM >

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 4:21:59 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		Yep, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that most Americans have visceral reactions to terms like...."rewarding law-breakers""wetbacks'" their taking your jobs'....etc.etc.
Tell me popeye how many of us are for bailing out wall street....yet that shall come to pass,sometimes the American people need their elected officials to tell them hard truts....that was one of those times ,unfortunately most of our politicians failed that test.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 4:43:51 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline 		As someone who has been denied a job due to an illegal workforce at a factory, I am all for the forced deportation of all illegals.  I ended up working as a security guard for minuimum wage who watched the steady stream of illegals come into the plant I guarded.  The company could not afford to pay locals 8 dollars an hour but they could send vans to the Mexican border to bring in dozens of illegals at a time.  They were reported and the government didn't have time to be bothered.  THAT'S why we have a problem now.
And, as for our deaconian laws, try to move to Mexico.  Their laws are even tougher than ours.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: A Concise View of US Immigration Policy - 9/26/2008 4:47:19 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yep, proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that most Americans have visceral reactions to terms like...."rewarding law-breakers""wetbacks'" their taking your jobs'....etc.etc.
Tell me popeye how many of us are for bailing out wall street....yet that shall come to pass,sometimes the American people need their elected officials to tell them hard truts....that was one of those times ,unfortunately most of our politicians failed that test.


Slvemike, I fail to see a "problem" there.
Most Americans also want our Troops out of Iraq and a lot of other places too.
That's the point, *our govt* is supposed to do the bidding of "The People."
That's why we have a "govt."
I don't think it's unreasonable for us to expect *our government* to do the job (s) it's supposed to do like enforcing our laws.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 60
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