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RE: Controlling my Slave - 10/2/2008 7:54:08 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I do not spend time with subs.

Yes time, trust, knowledge and devotion are absolutely needed. Didn't realize that actually needed saying.

As far as a choice, still comes down to the definition and biological drives. Kind of like choosing who you are attracted to, or sexual orientation, there are some things that go a little deeper and on a more primal level.

You can be skeptical. Those that say can't, never will.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf


[Again comes down to the definition of choice. Also, I did not offer my collar to my property, she begged it. It was a choice by her yes, but it is a choice that is rooted in a biological drive. Much different than choosing which color of shirt to wear, or whether or not to add salt to taste. As far as leaving, I suggest some research into Internal Enslavement, as the conditions can be created so that the property can no longer exert that willpower unless another biological imperative occurs (risk of harm or death as an example).



I'm rather skeptical about Internal Enslavement, however even if I agree that it exists, I'm sure you will agree that you cannot set up those conditions unless the sub in question actually spends time with you. If you come around trying to set up those conditions and she calls the cops and has you arrested for stalking, then it isn't going to happen.

She has to make a choice about you being acceptable to her.


_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Controlling my Slave - 10/3/2008 8:54:14 AM   
bound4more


Posts: 128
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDW

I am new to being a master and my slave is slightly more experianced than I. In regular life she is a strong woman and this shines through when I am trying to assert myself. I am have a dominant character but I am not really sure what I can say or do to keep more control.

I would like to know if anyone has some good advice on making some progress in asserting dominance and punishing my slave. I am not at all into hurting my slave so I need more mental punishments. The only real one I have so far is making her sit on a mat by the bed for a predetermined period of time (usually until I have explained why she is there).  Other than more extreme measures - to me extreme - does anyone have any advice?

Thanks ...



To be an effective Owner, get to know your property well.

_____________________________

You can tell who someone really is by how they act

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/14/2008 12:19:05 PM   
thedavezone


Posts: 113
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: South Korea
Status: offline 		Figging would be best, but you're not into pain.

Make her wear a chastity device, then arouse her silly and send her home.  Do this for hours at a time for as often as you can, until she is your willing servant.

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/14/2008 3:13:01 PM   
akisha


Posts: 2071
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thedavezone

Figging would be best, but you're not into pain.

Make her wear a chastity device, then arouse her silly and send her home.  Do this for hours at a time for as often as you can, until she is your willing servant.


First off, figging does not cause pain for all people

Secondly, your idea for making her a willing servant i don't think would work.

I know for me, the first couple times i'd be fustrated yes, but if it was something done repeatedly I'd just get seriously pissed off and then you would no longer be able to get me aroused at all.

I'd not recommend this as a viable recourse with any sub, personally.

_____________________________

I'm confused.... No wait!!! Maybe I'm not

It's not a blonde moment! It's momentary peroxide posioning. ;)

Your pain makes me smile ~ Happy Bunny

532-095-649

(in reply to thedavezone)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 3:12:09 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDW

I am new to being a master and my slave is slightly more experianced than I. In regular life she is a strong woman and this shines through when I am trying to assert myself. I am have a dominant character but I am not really sure what I can say or do to keep more control.

I would like to know if anyone has some good advice on making some progress in asserting dominance and punishing my slave. I am not at all into hurting my slave so I need more mental punishments. The only real one I have so far is making her sit on a mat by the bed for a predetermined period of time (usually until I have explained why she is there).  Other than more extreme measures - to me extreme - does anyone have any advice?

Thanks ...



Allowing for your newness and her slightly more experience, I feel that this is a question of training her in how you want her to behave, serve you, address you, behave in public and attent to chores or taske you set her. Generally speaking, every slave I have owned has had a driving desire to serve me and serve well as well as my finding her pleasing. It is well worth the time and effort invested in a slave to train her well and trai n her right. First however you need to take the time to write down what you want her to do and how you want her to do oit, then priotise the list and get to work. Use the KISS system and you will have less errors. You will make mistakes and be man enough to be open about them with her. She knows you are new and will respect you for how you handle mistakes you make. This also helps to gain trust.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 6:51:51 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Slavery, as it existed in the past, was complete ownership of the OBJECT, not the mind.  Otherwise, there would never have been slave uprisings now would there?  Owning the object is a very effortless objective.  Fork over a few bucks and you own it.  I always laugh at those who hold that sort of slavery as a goal.  Big fucking deal, any moron with money can own a slave.

Inspire a follower?  Now that takes a bit more.  Now you are at least in the Jim Jones/cult status and that at least takes some effort, some skills, and personal power.  However, when the worship is one sided, when the goal is to make one person be the center at the expense of another, an independent observer is a bit less impressed.  One egomaniac/insecure nutjob needs to be unquestioned and "followed" by those two insecure and unsure of themselves that they need to "believe" in something other than themselves.

I place vanilla above all those.  At least there you have two people, equal in some ways, who freely choose to be together and who help each other grow, mature, and reach both mutual and individual goals.  Rather nice actually.

I place 70% of bdsm relationships as less fulfilling than a decent vanilla relationship.  Harsh, made up statistic but I am unimpressed if these boards are any indication.  Perhaps we can con LA into doing some sort of analysis on how many truly fucked up relationships appear monthly here?  Anyway onward.

To ME (and for those too stupid to understand by that I mean, this is of course my opinion, not the one true way of which nobody who hails from this planet has a grip on although I hear they do do it better on other planets) a GOOD D/s relationship has elements from all of these but they are balanced out, taking more of the good than the bad.

We start with a  woman (since that is my paradigm) who has a life that is completely squared away, independent, drama free, stable, etc.  A woman capable of attracting all sorts of men but needing none of them.  Said woman is of course submissive but that submission isn't some prize one can seize, nor is it some gift she can turn on or off.  Our woman sees any number of men who evoke that submission but most fall short of possessing the things the woman has, namely independence, no drama, stability, etc.  So while she FEELS that submission, she reigns it in and does not act on it. That would be the "slave heart" crap.  She truly wants to submit but has yet to find a man worthy of being given the chance to SEE that submission, to act on it.

So our upstanding female citizen meets a man who is dominant, like so many others, but unlike the vast hordes of dominant men, this one seems to have his shit together, his knuckles drag the ground only when he wants them to, he can actually hold a decent conversation, and while he has an active fantasy life, it is balanced by having his feet firmly planted on the ground.  So our little couple starts flirting, she allows him to see that submission and he acts on it.  Trust slowly builds because actions and words align.

So we have a woman who is genuinely submissive but has the security to choose who she expresses that submission to.  She cannot be "taken" she cannot be forced, she has to choose WHO she expresses that submission to.

Now, I don't give a rats fucking ass how dominant someone is, if you have a woman like the above, someone you have to actually EARN, there is a give and take.  Now that give and take might CONSIST of all taking by the man but ONLY if what he is taking are the things she wants/craves/needs taken.  Which is why we so often hear refrains like "but he would never do that" etc.  I don't think that makes these relationships any less, I think it is what makes ALL relationships work.

Which is why I laugh when people try to do extreme things to "show" how "slavey" their partner is.  If your partner "needs" to be forced to do things, she on some level wouldn't be happy with me because that isn't my style in that sense.  It is an exchange and what I exchange wouldn't meet her needs and what someone wants to take are the very things she needs taken.

Which is why "internal enslavement" is such horseshit, it is a game of semantics for people who are terrified what they are doing isn't real enough by some external measurement.  Who the fuck cares what others think?  Seemingly the ones who have to blather loudest that they don't care what others think. 

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 8:07:08 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		MrDW

Are you thinking that punishment will result in greater control.... or is it in your dynamic that punishment is effective in getting greater control.  Is this something that BOTH of you want... "a variety of punishment activities"?  or is your goal to actually establish more control... if that is the case... I think you need to look at different tools than punishment .... not the same punishment tool with a different handle.

Control is the ability to produce a repeatable consequence with various approaches in a variety of situations.  Rarely are we in just one situation.. and as such.. you will be required to use various approaches to get the desired result of having Control.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 8:14:29 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Which is why I laugh when people try to do extreme things to "show" how "slavey" their partner is.



Here is something which I can agree with you Michael. If I want to demonstrate my Mastery of a girl in my collar or a House Collar, all I need do is to invite those folk tp my home for a day and allow then to watch the interaction during lunch and latter dinner. I never need to either raise my voice or use whiplash style commands but merely express my wishes in a quiet voice and they will be carried out. I do also use a number of hand signals when appropriate. A well trained girl will be able to anticipate some of my requirements (especially my repeated requirements for short black coffee) and be on the ball for anything additional (even more so regarding guests). However I do equate a high level of Mastery with a high level of training and a good understanding of the girl including her physical limitations.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 9:04:31 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

I am have a dominant character but I am not really sure what I can say or do to keep more control.

If you're not sure of yourself, you don't have a dominant character.

There is no control to keep.  That is a delusion for wannabes.  The more you seek control the less control you will find.


_____________________________



(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 11:48:25 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Which is why I laugh when people try to do extreme things to "show" how "slavey" their partner is.



Here is something which I can agree with you Michael. If I want to demonstrate my Mastery of a girl in my collar or a House Collar, all I need do is to invite those folk tp my home for a day and allow then to watch the interaction during lunch and latter dinner. I never need to either raise my voice or use whiplash style commands but merely express my wishes in a quiet voice and they will be carried out. I do also use a number of hand signals when appropriate. A well trained girl will be able to anticipate some of my requirements (especially my repeated requirements for short black coffee) and be on the ball for anything additional (even more so regarding guests). However I do equate a high level of Mastery with a high level of training and a good understanding of the girl including her physical limitations.



But this is assuming that others are doing extreme things to show off their slaviness. There are a myriad of other reasons people do extreme things, but if they even start to bring up some of the extreme, they're slapped with the "show off" label.

IB I think what you describe would be most fascinating to both watch and experience. But I would imagine if you did something considered extreme with the girls, you wouldn't be doing so to show off, you would be doing so because (a) you simply felt like it; or (b) there was some particular reason you thought one or both or all of you would benefit from it. It wouldn't be because you wanted everyone to see how cool you all were.

There are a lot of assumptions made on these boards about other people's relationships. Often times they are wrong.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 12:24:03 PM   
SadysticJester


Posts: 122
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline 		using there own words and actions against them works good in a controlled way with an explanation afterwards...finding the things she loves/likes/dislikes/hates,and using them to your advantage works well too..but be carefull as to go about it w/o permanantly scarring them emotionally.....just a few options..

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The fool may seem a Fool to some,but take care to fully explore what the Fool has to say,They are not foolish words...
SadysticJester

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/15/2008 7:31:49 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida




IB I think what you describe would be most fascinating to both watch and experience. But I would imagine if you did something considered extreme with the girls, you wouldn't be doing so to show off, you would be doing so because (a) you simply felt like it; or (b) there was some particular reason you thought one or both or all of you would benefit from it. It wouldn't be because you wanted everyone to see how cool you all were.

There are a lot of assumptions made on these boards about other people's relationships. Often times they are wrong.


Thank you for those kind words, it is appreciated. I remember one of my Master Sgts commenting when shit was flowing over us, "It is easy to train a monkey to do specatular things.  The true test of training is when those you train continue to do everything almost fautlessly and without prompting, time after time. probably boring but shows the value of correct training and leadership." I've always remembered that and used it as a yard stick in all areas I have trained or taught people in. I love it when someone makes something difficult seem simple as a result of training, practice and leadership.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 11/15/2008 7:32:29 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/17/2008 6:43:47 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		without submission, there is no domination

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/18/2008 9:58:21 AM   
tied2bteased


Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2005
Status: offline 		Mad Rabbit is right; I am not a Dominant, but think I understand the Dominant mindset fairly well. She may be confused about what she really wants or needs. Submissives tend to overthink things at times. The Dominant has the enormous responsibility of cutting things down to the basics. So over thinking needs to be stopped, and clear, simple expectations put forth. You know how sometimes we get jobs we really don't have to think too much to do. We walk in, do the job, and then resume thinking afterwards? Smart submissives have this dilemma to overcome their intelligence with compliance to the structure created by their Dominant. It is easy if you don't think about it too much. For me this is where trust comes up. She very well may be testing you to see where your boundaries are emotionally, and Dominantly. Are you a safe person to be with? Then again there is the brat part of submissives which need to check these boundaries are for attention and for punishment, because if she is a masochist, that is what she wants. Complex to say the least, and the Dominant has to carry the weight in figuring it out. She of course needs to understand why she seeks this kind of relationship and what the benefit is to her. She needs to get how to move the relationship forward as opposed to frustrating you with all the trust games. YMMV just my 2 cents.

(in reply to sirsholly)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Controlling my Slave - 11/18/2008 2:08:04 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDW

I am not really sure what I can say or do to keep more control.

I would like to know if anyone has some good advice on making some progress in asserting dominance and punishing my slave.



Punishment is far from the only way to skin the cat.

Any control measures you decide to employ most suit the person, i.e. your woman. It follows thus you need to understand her before you even begin to think of what forms of control will encourage the behaviour you expect.

Depending on character she may need any of the following, or a combination of following: discipline, been given the room to breathe, leading by example, rewarding appropriate behaviour etc etc and, yes, punishment is an incentive toward generating the behaviour you would like to see. Much of what she requires will depend on her background, so you'll need to understand that.

This is what I would do: forget about master and slave - just get to know her, see what she's all about. You can't generate the behaviour you expect from someone you don't understand, unless of course you're of the same character.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to MrDW)
Profile   Post #: 75
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