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Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 9:44:07 AM   
scarlethiney


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After reading  a lot of the posts on the forums and thinking about the comments of each and how they relate to me or my life experiences recently I am questioning who I am in this lifestyle.

I grew up submissve, I have always felt that a submissive role "fit".  I have a very strong personality in my vanilla life and find that more and more I am in a dominant role not only at work but at home. 
Perhaps it is the amount of responsibility that I have at work and at home that makes me take on a more dominant role. I actually enjoy being in control and making those decisions.
Does that make me a submissive with a strong a personality which I see there are many of on here and which I greatly admire.
Is it situational and a result of my circumstances and neccessity?? Is my love of being submissive an expectation I grew up with and just inherent in my personality? I realize that these are things I need to discover on my own but I would appreciate other opinions.

My question is:  How many of you realized years into your choice in this lifestyle that perhaps you leaned more  toward another direction than your current choice?  How many submissives realized they had more dominant tendencies and actually "switched" to Domme/Domiant (I'm not even sure if that is the politcally correct term and I don't want to offend with my limited knowledge) .  Or what led you to define yourself in this lifestyle and did you ever think perhaps you needed to redefine yourself?


scarlet





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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 9:54:19 AM   
NihilusZero


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There are aspects of life I'm capable in than others. My dominant nature relates heavily in the aspects of relationships (romantic and platonic).

Each circumstance is different. If, for instance, you have a natural knack for managing financial issues incredibly and enjoy taking the command of them, I don't think it needs to necessarily speak of your submissiveness as a whole.How many of the things in your life that you question as being signs of a dominant character trait are actually personal skills being manifested?




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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 9:59:50 AM   
Quivver


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I believe with all my heart that each individual relationship is unique, and will on it's own show and sometimes share the rolls of dominance and submission.  I dont believe this makes us all switches either, cause to choose requires intent, where as when left
to it's own course there will be a leader and there will be a follower or there wont be much of a relationship. 

For myself it depends on what role and place in life is offered up at the moment. 
At work many times my dominant side is what is sought out and my strength allows me to meet the demand. 
Other times that shoe changes requiring me to step back and follow. 

What separates this for me is the interpersonal relationship that contains sex.  I prefer to be submissive. 
So at this time what I am is a choice that I get to make, one that offers me what I need and want. 

So in my humble opinion Yes you can be both. 


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 10:02:57 AM   
azropedntied


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scarlet > for some this is not  a  lifestyle , not a choice to make , Sure there can be choices made through the journey , and knowing yourself better through  the  path your on  helps , but  some people are what they are .Does the leaf in the  river make  its choice on where it travels ?
On the other hand for some it is very much a  lifestyle  and they can do and pick and choose what they want , take off  and put on  as they wish , it can be left for years and picked up again .so Sure  discover yourself  and you shall  better answer that question for yourself .
best wishes .

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 10:32:32 AM   
scarlethiney


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Excellent point. I hadn't looked at it that way.  I do control finances, the household , most purchases, and often many decisions in our relationship. I honestly need to consider your question. I may be equating responsibility with dominance.

Thank you for the light bulb moment.

scarlet


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 11:00:05 AM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Quivver

I believe with all my heart that each individual relationship is unique, and will on it's own show and sometimes share the rolls of dominance and submission.  I dont believe this makes us all switches either, cause to choose requires intent, where as when left
to it's own course there will be a leader and there will be a follower or there wont be much of a relationship. 

For myself it depends on what role and place in life is offered up at the moment. 
At work many times my dominant side is what is sought out and my strength allows me to meet the demand. 
Other times that shoe changes requiring me to step back and follow. 

What separates this for me is the interpersonal relationship that contains sex.  I prefer to be submissive. 
So at this time what I am is a choice that I get to make, one that offers me what I need and want. 

So in my humble opinion Yes you can be both. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: azropedntied

scarlet > for some this is not  a  lifestyle , not a choice to make , Sure there can be choices made through the journey , and knowing yourself better through  the  path your on  helps , but  some people are what they are .Does the leaf in the  river make  its choice on where it travels ?
On the other hand for some it is very much a  lifestyle  and they can do and pick and choose what they want , take off  and put on  as they wish , it can be left for years and picked up again .so Sure  discover yourself  and you shall  better answer that question for yourself .
best wishes .



Beautifully put thank you both!

scarlet



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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 11:02:16 AM   
IvyMorgan


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I started off calling myself submissive because that it always what I had been expected to be (that and a bottom - but way back when I started online/in the scene, I wasn't familiar with that term).  I'm growing into my self more, getting more comfortable with the fact that I have a sadistic streak, learning how to enjoy that, being terrified of that side of me, generally learning it's okay to be and not be things according to what I want as opposed to what's expected of me.  Labels change as we grow, I guess, and we can redefine exactly what they mean to us, too.

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 1:22:10 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan

I started off calling myself submissive because that it always what I had been expected to be (that and a bottom - but way back when I started online/in the scene, I wasn't familiar with that term).  I'm growing into my self more, getting more comfortable with the fact that I have a sadistic streak, learning how to enjoy that, being terrified of that side of me, generally learning it's okay to be and not be things according to what I want as opposed to what's expected of me.  Labels change as we grow, I guess, and we can redefine exactly what they mean to us, too.


I completely agree with that Ivy and I too am discovering so many more things about myself.  Thanks!

scarlet


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 2:53:09 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


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My situation may be becoming more unique, since the way people come into BDSM has changed even since I started getting involved with the community 25 years ago (I've only been actively participating myself for 10 years, but I've provided pastoral care to the community for over 25). Not that either way is better or worse, but I know that this particular experience was valuable to me in many ways, and there aren't as many opportunities to -have- the experience these days, since it has sort of fallen 'out of favor'.

When I came in, everyone who came into our House came in the same way -- male, female, top, bottom, dominant, submissive... everyone came in through the 'service and experience' door. I was not the world's best servant -- I was willful, stubborn, occasionally argumentative... I did, however, take a damned good beating and -loved- vampire glove and needle play like you wouldn't believe. Not unusual in someone who has looked -forward- to watching techs draw blood or give an injection since I was little, and who loves being pierced and tattooed. We discovered that, while I was capable of service if I felt called for my own reasons, I was simply -not- good at it when ordered to it. Frankly, I wasn't all that keen on being ordered to -anything-... my whole life's history has been one of bucking the system and figuring out how to get around things I'd been commanded to do. *lol* However, I -did- value the people that I was dealing with, which is why I accepted the requirement when I entered the House... and to be honest, I did my best. It wasn't good, but it -was- the best I could manage.

I think everyone but me knew that I was getting my crop and manumission before I did. I'd almost become resigned to service. I'd made a promise, and it just isn't in me to break my word once someone has gotten me to actually commit and -give- it (I even had an 'escape' clause in my marriage vows... they were written "for as long as love may last", instead of "until death does you part", because I refused to promise something that I couldn't guarantee for the rest of my life.) But I -did- promise to serve the House faithfully until the point where I had been deemed suited to carry the crop of a Keeper -- something entirely at the discretion of the ones who were -my- Keepers during my "apprenticeship".

I learned some truly valuable lessons about myself and about the choices I was making even when it seemed that there was no choice to make. I think these choices were so apparent to me because there was such a distinct line between what I -wanted- most days, and what I had sworn an oath to do. I learned that, no matter how much you want something, having it can sometimes be a huge burden, and that accepting the burden makes the bounty that much more sweet.

Once I'd been raised up and had accepted my crop, I found that the experiences had real benefits when dealing with servants as a domina in the household. I also realized that I am -not- a happy camper when life becomes too complacent and quiet. I am an intensity hound and chaos magnet -- and it works for me. Spending time in that apprenticeship stripped away many of the lies I told myself over the years. For that reason, I think I will always appreciate the opportunity to travel that very steep, rocky, painful road.

Calla Firestorm


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 4:19:21 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

My situation may be becoming more unique, since the way people come into BDSM has changed even since I started getting involved with the community 25 years ago (I've only been actively participating myself for 10 years, but I've provided pastoral care to the community for over 25). Not that either way is better or worse, but I know that this particular experience was valuable to me in many ways, and there aren't as many opportunities to -have- the experience these days, since it has sort of fallen 'out of favor'.

When I came in, everyone who came into our House came in the same way -- male, female, top, bottom, dominant, submissive... everyone came in through the 'service and experience' door. I was not the world's best servant -- I was willful, stubborn, occasionally argumentative... I did, however, take a damned good beating and -loved- vampire glove and needle play like you wouldn't believe. Not unusual in someone who has looked -forward- to watching techs draw blood or give an injection since I was little, and who loves being pierced and tattooed. We discovered that, while I was capable of service if I felt called for my own reasons, I was simply -not- good at it when ordered to it. Frankly, I wasn't all that keen on being ordered to -anything-... my whole life's history has been one of bucking the system and figuring out how to get around things I'd been commanded to do. *lol* However, I -did- value the people that I was dealing with, which is why I accepted the requirement when I entered the House... and to be honest, I did my best. It wasn't good, but it -was- the best I could manage.

I think everyone but me knew that I was getting my crop and manumission before I did. I'd almost become resigned to service. I'd made a promise, and it just isn't in me to break my word once someone has gotten me to actually commit and -give- it (I even had an 'escape' clause in my marriage vows... they were written "for as long as love may last", instead of "until death does you part", because I refused to promise something that I couldn't guarantee for the rest of my life.) But I -did- promise to serve the House faithfully until the point where I had been deemed suited to carry the crop of a Keeper -- something entirely at the discretion of the ones who were -my- Keepers during my "apprenticeship".

I learned some truly valuable lessons about myself and about the choices I was making even when it seemed that there was no choice to make. I think these choices were so apparent to me because there was such a distinct line between what I -wanted- most days, and what I had sworn an oath to do. I learned that, no matter how much you want something, having it can sometimes be a huge burden, and that accepting the burden makes the bounty that much more sweet.

Once I'd been raised up and had accepted my crop, I found that the experiences had real benefits when dealing with servants as a domina in the household. I also realized that I am -not- a happy camper when life becomes too complacent and quiet. I am an intensity hound and chaos magnet -- and it works for me. Spending time in that apprenticeship stripped away many of the lies I told myself over the years. For that reason, I think I will always appreciate the opportunity to travel that very steep, rocky, painful road.

Calla Firestorm



Thank you Calla. I appreciate your honesty and your great advice. I am wondering myself if a lot of what I see as challenging as a submissive is the "intensity hound" in me lol I like that term!
I notice that there are people here who I so easily allow to push my buttons and make me think and I realize those are good things.  I can see that I need to re-evaluate my definitions of submission and sit and talk with my Master about his view of me and what he sees as my role. "All of you" have helped me learn so much in such a short time and I am very grateful for your comments and your taking the time to share them with me.


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 4:26:47 PM   
SlaveIndigochild


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In the past when i have been burned i have found that dominant aspect on the rise. Being dominant is something i use to great effect in my professional life but my core self is submissive....yet i am an alpha female slave and could only ever dominate another woman never a man. i have tried it and it did not bring me any satisfaction. i tried it because i loved the man and that is why.
i'm just me....therefore
i can switch if told to......does that answer the question?

< Message edited by SlaveIndigochild -- 9/29/2008 4:27:24 PM >


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 4:34:11 PM   
LATEXBABY64


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yep you ya can anyone that says other wise is lost in space  cause it takes both halfs  of the mind to function yep  dom and sub half

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 4:51:46 PM   
scarlethiney


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveIndigochild

In the past when i have been burned i have found that dominant aspect on the rise. Being dominant is something i use to great effect in my professional life but my core self is submissive....yet i am an alpha female slave and could only ever dominate another woman never a man. i have tried it and it did not bring me any satisfaction. i tried it because i loved the man and that is why.
i'm just me....therefore
i can switch if told to......does that answer the question?


Yes it does.  I feel much the same way.    We become what we need to according to the circumstances at the moment and for those we love.  I suppose that I am just what I am also and thats ok.
Thank you for your response.

scarlet


_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 5:11:44 PM   
TabrisMaceth


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For the longest time, the closest I ever got to BDSM was- like most people- kinky porn. There's precious little I wouldn't do for people I care about, but I need my freedom and can't stand the idea of anyone else controlling my life. My last girlfriend- the one who really piqued my curiousity in BDSM- said I might be a switch...but honestly, I feel much more comfortable as a dom. And even when I was just vanilla-with-sprinkles (now chocolate swirl-with-sprinkles), I always had very, very dom/sub kind of romantic fantasies (one of which I'd like to turn into an online comic). I've always found something profoundly touching about someone who would sacrifice everything to make the one they love happy, and that someone would make them happy in return...

-Tabris

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/29/2008 10:57:05 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Don't equate what you do with your innate relationship orientation.

Don't equate your personality with your innate relationship orientation.

Once you break out of the idea of what you "should be" then you'll realize that it's just you being you in that particular unique way (although it's pretty common for subs to have dominant personalities and take very active and responsible positions in the world they inhabit)

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/30/2008 12:55:24 AM   
ResidentSadist


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Dear scarlet,
What you describe as “being in control” at work does not conflict with understanding of a “submissive role” in a lifestyle relationship.  If the control you enjoy is over your partner, not your subordinates at work, then you may just be a switch not a submissive.   

If you feel “being in charge” of domestic responsibilities is affecting your submissive relationship perspectives, there is an awesome book about this topic called The Surrendered Wife.  It has workshop style exercises to remind you of your submissive role while maintaining “control” of the house and/or kids.  It may help you find balance and give you the tools to maintain it.   

I have more than a couple years in this lifestyle (1971) and have seen many people evolve or "switch sides" to other lifestyle relationship roles.  Personally, it took me a while to find my own niche when I was in my teens.  To answer your question, No, I haven’t changed my role preference since.   

Best Wishes,
Kalon Eric
 

< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 9/30/2008 12:56:13 AM >


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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/30/2008 1:53:35 AM   
MaamJay


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I am both. While My Dominant side was more obvious immediately (honed by years of teaching!) ... I knew from the start that there was a submissive side who was aching to experience this just as much as My Domme side wanted to dish it out! It took a while to work out what % of each I am ... I initially thought about 90% Dominant and 10% sub ... then 70:30 ... and I've ended up with 50:50 being ideal! Trouble is I've gone from having a sub and no Master ... to sort of having both except the sub wasn't really one so created a lot of angst ... to having a Master and no sub! So while I want to live 50:50 ... that's not proving easy to attain. When it works, I can flow seamlessly from "yes Master" to giving My sub an order. Even I find that pretty amazing LOL! Friends coined the term Duality rather than switch as that seems to capture it better.

Obviously not everyone is going to be the same ... but it's an illustration that some at least can be both, and can even be both at the same time. Also, most I've met admit to having undergone a journey of discovery to find out who they are and where they fit. And as other posters have mentioned, there is a difference between operating out of skills and operating out of an inner motivation or point of joy. Enjoy the process of discovery scarlet and keep an open mind!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/30/2008 5:54:52 AM   
LATEXBABY64


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break on through to the other side  (the doors )

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/30/2008 6:08:03 AM   
justgemmie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

If you feel “being in charge” of domestic responsibilities is affecting your submissive relationship perspectives, there is an awesome book about this topic called The Surrendered Wife.  It has workshop style exercises to remind you of your submissive role while maintaining “control” of the house and/or kids.  It may help you find balance and give you the tools to maintain it.   


greetings Aall
greetings Master Eric ~~

thank You!!  i'm going to order this today .....

well wishes,
gemmie

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RE: Can you really be both? - 9/30/2008 6:17:20 AM   
scarlethiney


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I can see LA that perhaps thats exactly what I  have been doing. Allowing those attributes to define me instead of just be the sum of the entire package.

Excellent point thank you!

Tabris  I am that person that makes sacrifices for my family. I don't know how to be anything else. Do you feel that just the dynamics of a relationship control your life?? I know for me loving someone equals responsibility on my part for their well being and that exerts a certain amount of control over your life at least with mine it does. But then again  that's also my choice. Maybe you feel that being nurturing takes away some of your freedom?   I appreciate your thoughts.

scarlet




_____________________________

"The words 'I am...' are potent words; be careful what you hitch them to. The thing you're claiming has a way of reaching back and claiming you." - A.L. Kitselman.


see my profile masterkspet

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