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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 10:32:09 AM   
popeye1250


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I don't understand why a U.S. Court is involved in this.
It obviously happened way outside of their jurisdiction.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 2:23:37 PM   
Vendaval


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I was wondering the same thing, Popeye.  Check out this paragraph at the bottom of the article in the OP -

"The judge also rejected arguments that the PLO was entitled to sovereign immunity or that the lawsuit must be brought in Israel rather than the United States. It was brought under the Antiterrorism Act of 1991, which provides U.S. residents, their survivors and heirs civil remedies in U.S. courts if they are injured by international terrorism."


For more information on this law go here -

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1991_cr/h910416-terror.htm

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 6:21:15 PM   
DesFIP


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The assumption is that there are known PLO assets in the U.S., and that's why the lawsuit was here. So yes, they can collect the money.

Last I looked, no Israeli official has ever declared an official doctrine of driving all Palestinians into the sea but that has been the official Palestinian doctrine towards Jews since day one.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 8:31:12 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Last I looked, no Israeli official has ever declared an official doctrine of driving all Palestinians into the sea but that has been the official Palestinian doctrine towards Jews since day one.


          And when everything they claim they want, except that, was on the table a while back, they walked away.  Fuck-em.  No more sympathy, no more slack.  3 billion?  Jerusalem ought to cover it.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 10:42:28 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Last I looked, no Israeli official has ever declared an official doctrine of driving all Palestinians into the sea but that has been the official Palestinian doctrine towards Jews since day one.


There hasn't been an official Palestinian doctrine. Who made this doctrine and when? There is only one official body of the Palestinians and that is the west bank authority which Israel seems happy to work with. It is the Israelis and people like yourself that have given the Palestinians an official doctrine to justify their subjugation and persecution of the Palestinians.

As for no official Israeli doctrine, how less official can you get than the first Israeli Prime Minister, Ben Gurion, who said, “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” and which seems to have been the Israeli official policy ever since.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 10:48:14 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Last I looked, no Israeli official has ever declared an official doctrine of driving all Palestinians into the sea but that has been the official Palestinian doctrine towards Jews since day one.


         And when everything they claim they want, except that, was on the table a while back, they walked away.  Fuck-em.  No more sympathy, no more slack.  3 billion?  Jerusalem ought to cover it.


Claptrap Heretic and I guess you know you are being completely ignorant of this issue bercause it suits your prejudices. Show me the deal where everything the Palestinians wanted were on the table. I suspect you are talking about the Barak offer which he must have known the Palestinians couldn't accept. What he was offering was a reservation style solution like the US gave to native Americans and of which many native Americans are still resentful of to this day but there was so many of them slaughtered, they don't have the numbers to resist.

Maybe you are wilfully ignorant or maybe the American media portreyed the offer as you think it was, that wouldn't surprise me, all the American media do is broadcast propaganda on this issue.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/1/2008 11:41:37 PM   
MadAxeman


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I have to agree with much of what Meatcleaver has iterated here. Regardless of this one court case, which might just be a counterclaim that imbues credibility with no real hope of a payout. One thing that alerted me to the disinformation about matters in the ME was that after 9/11 the majority of Americans were absolutely shocked at pictures of Palestinians dancing in the streets and praising Allah.
With largely free high tech weaponry and untold billions in cash described as 'aid' to Israel without any control over how such 'aid' was to be applied, there seemed to be an attitude that the U.S reputation was good in the ME because of such benevolence. A rude awakening. Because of such policies, including anti Iran, pro Iran, anti Iran, pro Iraq, anti Iraq, now what...pro Iraq? 'The Great Satan' is feared, but not loved.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 12:27:40 AM   
popeye1250


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Axeman, we need to end all foreign aid!
That should be one of the conditions of this bailout stuff.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 1:19:13 AM   
MadAxeman


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Agreed, perhaps with the exceptions of real humanitarian aid to the starving or after huge disasters. Politicised aid just creates temporary (or rented) allies and permanent enemies.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 7:04:36 AM   
Bethnai


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FR.

Gee, MC, your throat must be dry from all of that...........
would you like some  water ?

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 1:24:06 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

FR.

Gee, MC, your throat must be dry from all of that...........
would you like some  water ?


You do know the link is to a propaganda website?

I thought I'd let you know if you can't tell the difference between internationally respected journalism and propaganda.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 1:31:35 PM   
philosophy


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FR

...out of curiosity, are some here seriously arguing that Israel is utterly blameless in this conflict?

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 3:35:11 PM   
Bethnai


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Philosophy-
Nobody, would argue that Israel is blameless. No one would argue that the US is blameless.  In fact, I have held that stance from the beginning. I have been called Anti-American for saying the same shit.
Unfortunately, there are those that cannot seem to get past this.   

< Message edited by Bethnai -- 10/2/2008 3:36:11 PM >

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 3:42:48 PM   
Bethnai


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

FR.

Gee, MC, your throat must be dry from all of that...........
would you like some  water ?


You do know the link is to a propaganda website?

I thought I'd let you know if you can't tell the difference between internationally respected journalism and propaganda.


You do realize that nobody stole the land away from the Palestinians and that the majority was purchased outright and that the majority of the land was held between 3 men. One of those men lived in Beirut. You also know that unrecognized villages would not be unrecognized if they acquired a permit to build. So, they would have water and electricity on a full time basis.  You are aware that the Arabs that live in Israel pay lower taxes and do not have to join the military so that they would not have to fight those of the same ethnicity. You do know that Arabs can take a case to the courts in Israel and win, like the wall? You are aware that the drip irrigation system designed by the Israeli's is taken to other countries for water conservation. You do realize that the majority of claims that you are making are full of shit and that the shit your spewing about Hezbollah indicates a complete lack of knowledge about "the people".

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 3:43:40 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai

I have been called Anti-American for saying the same shit.


.....oh, i get that sometimes too......it's just that, in the case of the story linked to in the OP, this seems to me to be a mere extension of the bias that exists in the US on this issue. The failings of Israel are glossed over or blatantly ignored, while the failings of the Palestinians are trumpeted from the rooftops.


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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 3:50:03 PM   
Bethnai


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I find the case ludicrous.  I find the law ludicrous.

The PLO is not a total representation of the Palestinian people. The PLO is one jacked up organiztion. Bush does not represent me and my mindset. America's foreign policy does not represent my mindset. The religious right does not represent my mindset.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/2/2008 5:57:26 PM   
Moloch


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

The fact he is an American judge making judgements on something that happened outside America he is making himself judge of the world.

He is a judge rendering a decision on a matter brought before his court, which, under the Antiterrorism Act of 1991, has the legal competence to rule on the matter.



Who fucking cares about American laws, American's don't care about anyone elses.

America isn't judge and jury to the world, especially since it wouldn't know objectivity if it fell over it.


Cared enough to stop genocide in the balkans...
Why is it people only remember the bad things that America does?
Oh right selective memory...

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/3/2008 1:04:03 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai


You do realize that nobody stole the land away from the Palestinians and that the majority was purchased outright and that the majority of the land was held between 3 men. One of those men lived in Beirut. You also know that unrecognized villages would not be unrecognized if they acquired a permit to build. So, they would have water and electricity on a full time basis.  You are aware that the Arabs that live in Israel pay lower taxes and do not have to join the military so that they would not have to fight those of the same ethnicity. You do know that Arabs can take a case to the courts in Israel and win, like the wall? You are aware that the drip irrigation system designed by the Israeli's is taken to other countries for water conservation. You do realize that the majority of claims that you are making are full of shit and that the shit your spewing about Hezbollah indicates a complete lack of knowledge about "the people".


I am aware pre-independence Jews were buying land from Arab landlords who then evicted their Arab tenants which caused resentment amongst poor Arabs against wealthy Arabs and incoming Jews. One of the reasons Britain after initially encouraging Jewish immigration, changed its policy because mistrust had set in between the two communities. However, by that time both communities mistrusted each other and both in their turn mistrusted Britain. The Arabs mistrusted Britain for allowing in Jewish immigrants in the firast place, the Jews mistrusted Britain because it changed its policy on Jewish immigration. That being said, in 1947, the Israelis did ethnically cleanse 750,000 Arabs from the newly formed Israel, did do it by creating fear through the masacre of women and children and did steal properties at the point of a gun. Read about how the zionist terrorist organisations fomented violence to create hate between the two communities. The same zionists terrorists that became the leaders of Israel, which is why anyone who listens to Israelis condemning Palestinian terrorists just has to laugh to keep sane.

There is a wall of bureaucratic regulation that denies Arab Israeli citizens their rights in law. The Israeli state often says its Arab citizens have the same rights as Jewish citizens but they forget to say that Arabs are often defeated through bureaucracy which doesn't impede Jewish citizens. As for access to water, the irrigation system is drying up the rivers in the area. What is becoming apparent now, the farming methoids in Israel are out of step with the local climate which is why Israel has been redirecting water. People used to accuse the local Arabs of being lazy and ludite but it is becoming increasingly apparent their traditional farming methods allow the land to remain productive without using up all the water. The next war in the region is predicted to be about water.

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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/4/2008 6:42:22 AM   
Bethnai


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I just want to make sure we are clear.
In 1929, the man who is known as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem deliberately instigates shit over the Wailing Wall. Prior to this, not much going on in the way of “terrorist” activities. Aligns himself with Nazi’s, in fact he winds up on the payroll. Ran a Muslim SS division. He has an unsuccessful pro-Nazi coup in Iraq. Publicly states he is all about the solution. Although, he had stated so long before that in other words. This man deliberately prevented Jewish people from escaping death. The founders of the PLO were Nazi’s. The founders of the Ba’ath Party were Nazi’s. Saddam Hussein’s guardian---Nazi. Nassar-Nazi. In fact, Nassar helped hide the Nazi’s. Syria, after the war, hired them. Yasser Arafat was his cousin. So, when Ben- Gurion thought that all Arabs were Nazi’s, its not like he did not have good cause. The Palestinians did not even call themselves Palestinians till the 1960’s.


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RE: NY judge: PLO can't disguise terror as war - 10/4/2008 6:50:20 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bethnai


I just want to make sure we are clear.
In 1929, the man who is known as the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem deliberately instigates shit over the Wailing Wall. Prior to this, not much going on in the way of “terrorist” activities. Aligns himself with Nazi’s, in fact he winds up on the payroll. Ran a Muslim SS division. He has an unsuccessful pro-Nazi coup in Iraq. Publicly states he is all about the solution. Although, he had stated so long before that in other words. This man deliberately prevented Jewish people from escaping death. The founders of the PLO were Nazi’s. The founders of the Ba’ath Party were Nazi’s. Saddam Hussein’s guardian---Nazi. Nassar-Nazi. In fact, Nassar helped hide the Nazi’s. Syria, after the war, hired them. Yasser Arafat was his cousin. So, when Ben- Gurion thought that all Arabs were Nazi’s, its not like he did not have good cause. The Palestinians did not even call themselves Palestinians till the 1960’s.




You do know that the Stern group offered to fight for the NAZIs against the British if they allowed immigration out of Germany. There were many people willing to make pacts with the devil for their own ends. The Mufti collaboration with the Germans has been overstated in the same way many overstate the Stern's offer of alliance to the Germans.

Ben Gurion didn't think all Arabs were NAZIs, he had made up his mind about the zionist solution to the Arab problem way before the NAZIs appeared on the scene.

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