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RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 8:23:56 AM   
brainiacsub


Posts: 1209
Joined: 11/11/2007
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

I often don't know if you are defending a position or playing devil's advocate.

Sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

btw Firm...I have to say that I just haven't figured you out. You are articulate and smart...mostly. I haven't determined whether you are a nutter, who truly believes his own nuttiness, but recognizes that most people can't swallow it, so you wrap the hard nut in something more soft and palatable like cheese, and we are left standing around wondering whether we liked it or not.




thanks ... I think.

[...snip...]


I'm glad you didn't take offense to my post. It was a compliment, thinly wrapped in cheese.

I have never pegged you to be an ideologue. At times you seem to support positions on both the left and right, as do I. We appear to have similar backgrounds and ideas on many things, except for religion. Don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone who is not religious is therefore a liberal. I have always tried to make the distinction between fundamentalist beliefs and those who profess to be Christians. They are not always the same thing. I know many fiscally conservative people who vote for the republican ticket but do not support the agenda of the religious right.

< Message edited by brainiacsub -- 10/7/2008 8:25:01 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 281
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 9:18:22 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Alot of snark slips showing in here......


Please, if that is  the criteria for intelligence all one has to do is look at W. Good god the man is a buffoon. And why is it that when a woman is attractive the rest of us "must" hate her because of that? Certainly she is attractive, so? I have no issues with my appearance,   as a matter of fact I am quite content with my looks and I dare say I would not trade them with Caribou Barbie for anything.  Blows that theory out of the water.




Makes me wonder who is really doing the "hating".







It's all good. Treasure is entitled to her opinion. If she wants to take one joke which was completely in line with the whole Palin must be smarter than anyone of us because she got herself elected governor and ignore the 6000+ posts I've already made to call into question my character, my skin is thick enough to stand it. I'm only sorry that she choose to snark on the joke rather than answer my question to her. That's pretty telling to me if you want to do that whole 'demonize' anyone who disagrees with you thing. Suddenly, because of one joke, I'm lacking in principal and critical thinking ability.

Pot, kettle, black.


< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 10/7/2008 9:20:24 AM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 282
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 9:21:21 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline 		Please, if that is  the criteria for intelligence all one has to do is look at W. Good god the man is a buffoon. And why is it that when a woman is attractive the rest of us "must" hate her because of that? Certainly she is attractive, so? I have no issues with my appearance,   as a matter of fact I am quite content with my looks and I dare say I would not trade them with Caribou Barbie for anything.  Blows that theory out of the water.











quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Alot of snark slips showing in here......





Makes me wonder who is really doing the "hating".







It's all good. Treasure is entitled to her opinion. If she wants to take one joke which was completely in line with the whole Palin must be smarter than anyone of us because she got herself elected governor and ignore the 6000+ posts I've already made to call into question my character, my skin is thick enough to stand it. I'm only sorry that she choose to snark on the joke rather than answer my question to her. That's pretty telling to me if you want to do that whole 'demonize' anyone who disagrees with you thing. Suddenly, because of one joke, I'm lacking in principal and critical thinking ability.

Pot, kettle, black.



< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 10/7/2008 9:22:13 AM >

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 283
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 9:23:27 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I mean you must have some reference for this amazing ability to understand what her meanings are.

*shrugs* I was raised a Christian, and went through a lot of soul-searching, thinking and research in my younger years.

But anyone of at least average intelligence who has a modicum of understanding of Christianity would understand her comments.

If they weren't ideologically committed to opposing her.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Maybe you should publish a Sarahspeak-to-English translation guide for the majority of us who have no idea what the hell she is saying most of the time.

No thanks. Most average Americans understand her just fine, I think.

Firm


That's funny, because I spent almost all my pre-secondary education in Christian schools. I understand her comments as well as it is possible to understand anything she says and I think them inappropriate.

I'm idealogically opposed to only stupidity.  I'm idealogically opposed to a President who believes God chose him for the job.  (I'm sure you know the quotes, so I won't post the links).

I'm idealogically opposed to perpetuating this faith-based nonsense that God is on our side.

I'm idealogically opposed to someone who can't string together a coherent sentence.  Bush or Palin, take your pick. 

As far as most Americans understanding her, see my link above.  Better yet, watch Tina Fey on SNL.  Best yet, read and listen to the reviews of her interview perfomances by the conservative media who wouldn't normally dare utter a criticism of a Republican candidate.  Even they can't refrain from stating the obvious. 

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/7/2008 9:26:11 AM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 284
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 10:33:41 AM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brainiacsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

brainiac,

Generally, I have found you to be reasonable and intelligent. Other than this particularly emotional reaction to religious beliefs, I've seen no words of yours that perplex me or cause me to believe anything negative about you.

This distaste of Palin because she is religious though, seems to be an emotional reaction of some sort. Why, or how you choose to mis-interpret her words is beyond my ken.

It has already been pointed out - and explained - that she did not say that she believes that she knows "the will of God". In fact, the specific words showed exactly the opposite: that she hoped (prayed) that the actions of the US in the war were in accordance with God's will.

How could she pray for that, if she already knew God's will?

Firm


Firm,

My distaste for Palin is not because she is religious - it is because she is ignorant and completely unqualified to hold the second highest office in the world. I don't feel as strongly toward Mike Huckabee, Pat Buchanan, or Mitt Romney -although I also disagree with their religious views - but they are intelligent, learned men with a more sophisticated comprehension of  the world we live in, business, economics, and foreign policy.

Palin's fundamentalist religious beliefs only contribute to her ignorance. Any adult who continues to believe that the Bible is the literal, infallible word of God demonstrates a lack of intellectual curiousity required to understand the world we live in. If she believes the Bible to be the word of God, ergo she must know the will of God through the teachings of the Bible, right?  You seem to think that my position is so narrowly focused on a few words she made about praying for the soldiers. It is not. My position is based on my knowledge and experienced with fundamentalist evangelical churches and teachings, which I believe to be very dangerous.

I have been accused of being bigoted and hateful toward all Christians. I am not. I am very wary of fundamentalist belief in any religion, because these are the people who seek to impose their beliefs on others, because after all, it is God's will.


I'm a bit confused.  You say that Palin's belief that the Bible is the infallable word of God only adds to her ignorance.  You then say that any adult who believes that lacks the intelligent curiosity required to understand the world we live in.

Now I don't know about Mitt Romney, but Pat Buchannon and Mike Huckabee have both pledged their belief in the Bible as the infallible word of God. 

Fundamentalist Christian beliefs aren't dangerous.  It is some of the people who harbor them.  Eric Rudolph was a fundamentalist Christian.  Does that mean all of the fundies are going to blow up abortion clinics?  Phelpps, the guy who has his whole family as his congregation for his church, practically.  He's a fundie.  He believes that soldiers are dying because of America's tolerance for gays.  Do all Christians line up with him?  I would say it's a resounding no.

Look, Palin may not be qualified for the office.  That's all fine and well.  However, her religious beliefs, just as Obama's religious beliefs, just as Biden's religous beliefs, just as McCain's religious beliefs are irrelevant. 

But to say her pledge adds to her ignorance, all the while saying men like Pat Buchannon and Mike Huckabee's doesn't...  I can't fall in line with that, and I'm about as anti-religious as it comes.  Until I see or hear it being done on the campaign trail, in a debate, in the White House, it's irrelevant.  But what she says, prays for in the hall's of her church, it's rather shameful to use against her, because there are MANY fundamentalist Christian's, who pray every Sunday that the person they are outside the church is in line with the will of their God.  Does that make them dangerous, as well as ignorant?


_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to brainiacsub)
Profile   Post #: 285
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 11:02:30 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie


Fundamentalist Christian beliefs aren't dangerous.  It is some of the people who harbor them. 


.......well, fundamental religious beliefs of whatever stripe can be dangerous when acted on. Fundamentalism tends to a blinkered view of the world, in the sense that for such people it's my way or burn in hell. Fundamentalism also tends to intolerance of other beliefs. i quite agree though that it requires people to act upon said beliefs. Thing is, take a fundamentalist, any fundamentalist, and now convince them not to act upon their beliefs........

(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 286
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 11:19:15 AM   
hoodie


Posts: 108
Joined: 6/30/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie


Fundamentalist Christian beliefs aren't dangerous.  It is some of the people who harbor them. 


.......well, fundamental religious beliefs of whatever stripe can be dangerous when acted on. Fundamentalism tends to a blinkered view of the world, in the sense that for such people it's my way or burn in hell. Fundamentalism also tends to intolerance of other beliefs. i quite agree though that it requires people to act upon said beliefs. Thing is, take a fundamentalist, any fundamentalist, and now convince them not to act upon their beliefs........


if that's the case than any belief could be considered dangerous.

My way or the highway doesn't exist in just Christianity. 

And that's my point.  In the voting booth, someone who will only vote Democrat, and they castigate all Republicans as vile and evil.  What's that?  Flip it around.  The same principal still applies. 

Fundamentalism happens all across the span of belief systems.  I know PLENTY of Evangelical Christians vehemently opposed to abortion who aren't going the way of Eric Rudolph.  I know plenty of Evangelical Christians vehemently opposed to homosexuality and same sex marriage, but they're not going the way of Fred Phelps.

The problem is that Sarah Palin has been labeled a "fundamentalist" because of what her church teaches/believes.  But that belief system is prevalent in alot of churches.  So what are we doing?  Telling a segment of the population that they should never aspire to public office if they've prayed in their house of worship that their lives, activiities and such meet up with the will of God?




_____________________________

bared on Your tomb, I'm a prayer for Your loneliness. And would You ever soon come above unto me. For once upon a time from the binds of Your holiness, I could always find the right slot for Your sacred key.

Nymphetamine - Cradle of Filth

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 287
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 12:14:08 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

if that's the case than any belief could be considered dangerous.


.......i wouldn't disagree in the extreme cases. An extreme belief in something has the capacity to be dangerous.

quote:

My way or the highway doesn't exist in just Christianity. 


....no, and i hope you have noted that my response made that clear. i was talking about fundamentalism as a generic concept, not just as the possession of just one creed. i'd hoped i'd made that clear.

quote:

And that's my point.  In the voting booth, someone who will only vote Democrat, and they castigate all Republicans as vile and evil.  What's that?  Flip it around.  The same principal still applies. 


....yup, unthinking loyalty may be loyalty but its still brainless. 

quote:

Fundamentalism happens all across the span of belief systems.  I know PLENTY of Evangelical Christians vehemently opposed to abortion who aren't going the way of Eric Rudolph.  I know plenty of Evangelical Christians vehemently opposed to homosexuality and same sex marriage, but they're not going the way of Fred Phelps.


...i'm sure you do. Do those people also condemn such terrorists? Or do they say things like, 'well i can see where they're coming from'?

quote:

The problem is that Sarah Palin has been labeled a "fundamentalist" because of what her church teaches/believes. 


...sauce for the goose. Some Republicans had no problem doing the same to Obama over things his pastor said.

quote:

 But that belief system is prevalent in alot of churches.  So what are we doing?  Telling a segment of the population that they should never aspire to public office if they've prayed in their house of worship that their lives, activiities and such meet up with the will of God?


.....if thats all they've done then absolutely not. The moment they work towards converting the law of the land to echo their personal belief then, in my view, they've crossed a line. The line being a rigid separation of church and state.

These are just my views........for myself i don't like religion being involved in politics. It's divisive in my view. Once elected a politician ought not just serve those who voted for them.......they ought to serve all f their constituency. For a fundamentalist Christian (indeed for anyone, of any religion) in office that includes all the Muslims, Jews, Aethists, Agnostics, Satanists, Pagans and anyone else who lives in the area that voted for them.

(in reply to hoodie)
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RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 12:22:47 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoodie

if that's the case than any belief could be considered dangerous.



To an extent. We all act in accordance with our beliefs; the actions determine that which is dangerous.

To illustrate:

It would be a stretch to consider a preacher on a street corner to be dangerous.

It is not a stretch to consider the invasion of a nation, on the grounds of Christian values, to be dangerous; the human cost speaks for itself, as does the total disregard for sovereignty.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to hoodie)
Profile   Post #: 289
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 12:26:22 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

These are just my views........for myself i don't like religion being involved in politics. It's divisive in my view.



Supported by the religious disorder of the 16th and 17th centuries, and the subsequent call for religious tolerance.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 290
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 4:00:51 PM   
magicone


Posts: 53
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline 		If I stand with a mirror behind me, spread my legs and look between my legs, I can see my..., well, where the sun doesn't shine. Yet it does not qualify me as a proctologist.  being honest - sitting here in europe and observing that all... i am not just shaking my head.. i shake my ass as well...,-))does that qualify me????

< Message edited by magicone -- 10/7/2008 4:04:29 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 291
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 4:53:07 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: magicone

If I stand with a mirror behind me, spread my legs and look between my legs, I can see my..., well, where the sun doesn't shine. Yet it does not qualify me as a proctologist.  being honest - sitting here in europe and observing that all... i am not just shaking my head.. i shake my ass as well...,-))does that qualify me????


Depends.  Qualify you for what?

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 292
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 5:10:07 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: magicone

If I stand with a mirror behind me, spread my legs and look between my legs, I can see my..., well, where the sun doesn't shine. Yet it does not qualify me as a proctologist.  being honest - sitting here in europe and observing that all... i am not just shaking my head.. i shake my ass as well...,-))does that qualify me????


Depends.  Qualify you for what?



....i was wondering that too.........what is a professional shaker called? A shakologist?

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 293
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 5:18:19 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		From her avatar picture, I'd say magicone is definitely qualified to wear a little black dress. Hellllllllllllo, babeeeyyy  .

_____________________________



(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 294
RE: We HATES Her - 10/7/2008 5:48:33 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: magicone

If I stand with a mirror behind me, spread my legs and look between my legs, I can see my..., well, where the sun doesn't shine. Yet it does not qualify me as a proctologist.  being honest - sitting here in europe and observing that all... i am not just shaking my head.. i shake my ass as well...,-))does that qualify me????

It might qualify her as being pretty darn flexible too.  But, there is no need to go to all that trouble.  I'll keep an eye on your backside for you, Magic.

(in reply to magicone)
Profile   Post #: 295
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