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Bait and switch - 10/3/2008 10:23:43 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		OK.  I fully admit it.  I'm something of an old hat.  It's not My fault.  I swear.  I do try to keep up with the times.  Although, as Audrey Hephburn would have said, classic black never goes out of style.

Lately, I've noticed a lot of posts about what I would term the bait and switch.  Other people tend to call it that, too, so I don't feel so out of place.  The concept behind bait and switch is a person presenting themselves to a partner as one thing, and then, once the relationship is secure, chose to be something else.  Please understand that I am not faulting anyone for this.  Sometimes, desires are of a nature that some folks don't think they will ever be accepted.  Sometimes, different worlds are opening later in life.  Sometimes, people suffer burnout and just don't feel like they can continue anymore.

This kind of thing can happen in various ways.  Two people meet and establish a vanilla relationship, then one or the other decides they are kinky.  The same holds true for two kinky people to meet and one of them decides they are vanilla.  It might even go so far as someone who presents themselves as submissive and only ever wants to focus on sexual pleasure for themselves.  Maybe a Top who hasn't presented themselves correctly.

Anyway, I've noticed it a lot lately.  Maybe I'm jaded in what I see.  Does anyone have any thoughts on the concept of bait and switch?


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The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread
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RE: Bait and switch - 10/3/2008 10:33:39 PM   
chiaThePet


Posts: 2694
Joined: 2/4/2007
Status: offline 		 
Oh, thought this was going to be about cookies and whittled tree branches.

Nobody has fun anymore.

chia* (the pet)

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You can stick me in the corner, but I'll probably just end up coloring on the walls.

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/3/2008 11:57:41 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		The thing with life is that the view is always changing.  A person can go through many interests and orientations over the course of a lifetime, and that is natural.  I do object to those who present themselves as X when they were Y all along--it's just deceitful.

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 4:52:00 AM   
Unrepentant1


Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline 		Perhaps its a case of people knowing they are kinky and thinking they are a particular role and are not. I myself automatically presumed I would be dominant due to my character in the vanilla world, how wrong that proved to be!

On the other hand there are lots of timewasters who will just tell you want they want you to hear, some have mutiple profiles for different roles! Now what i would like to do to them I can not state on here, lol.

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 7:02:22 AM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		There are cases where it is purposeful.  For example, a sub may push to move in the a Dom/me that is will to pay for housing, meals, etc., then the sub stops being submissive.  What they were really looking for is the free ride.  Tops can also abuse their privileges - I heard about a recent case that left the sub all but bankrupt.  Users can pose in either role and turn out not to be about the lifestyle at all.

In other cases I believe it is more a case of living out a fantasy for a short time, or simply being unsure.  Yes - it happens.  People can try to make themselves into something they are not to please another and then fall back into their old habits.  Some couples never figure it out until after they are married.  It's a shame when you hear about it.




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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 7:12:55 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Sometimes I think the person may not KNOW what they want. They read all the erotica and watch all the porns... and decide that they'd love to be tied up 24/7 and spanked for minor infractions. How couldn't they?? It looks like so much fun on the porn right?

But when they finally find that person who will fulfil those fantasy's, they find that reality really is a bitch. It's why I'm skeptical of the people that demand they have all those years of experience... do you really have experience.. or do you just perv out a lot?


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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 7:31:59 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		im just wondering do you have a switch fantasy, would you like  a male to dominate you, maybe you swap roles im intrigued Lady Pact, you come up with very interesting philosophical arguments. if i were to visit maybe we could experiment see who likes to submit more just for fun

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 7:33:20 AM   
Lynnxz


Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

im just wondering do you have a switch fantasy, would you like  a male to dominate you, maybe you swap roles im intrigued Lady Pact, you come up with very interesting philosophical arguments. if i were to visit maybe we could experiment see who likes to submit more just for fun





You are the reason decent male subs have such a hard time finding women to connect with.


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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 7:41:32 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		actually with respect im not. i am a slave. i wouldnt dream of asking a dominant to submit to me. i would not dream of asking anyone to submit to me. i am a totally submissive servant. i was just joking because the Domme in question Lady Pact plays for fun and is not seeking anyone. But in play or for real it would be simply ludicrous and outrageous for me to ask anyone to submit. i dont have that right or authority. all control and authority rests with the Dominant alone, my function is to obey no matter what, unlesss the Domme asks me to do something illegal or want to break a hard limit etc. But outside that my function is to obey. Switch and Domme, even sub, are higher in standing than me
respectfully
kevin

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 8:26:18 AM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

OK.  I fully admit it.  I'm something of an old hat. 


But one that any man would still be proud to have on his head!
(sorry, couldn't help it)

I think the bait and switch is pretty much a cliche in vanilla marriages through history (what food immediately reduces a woman's libido to nothing? Wedding cake!)... As much as BDSM folks like to think that we're special, we're certainly not immune


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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 8:47:33 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

im just wondering do you have a switch fantasy, would you like  a male to dominate you, maybe you swap roles im intrigued Lady Pact, you come up with very interesting philosophical arguments. if i were to visit maybe we could experiment see who likes to submit more just for fun

Actually, I was a bit concerned when I titled this thread that someone would confuse the word switch when used as a verb, and translate it to a noun.  The post has absolutely nothing with the latter.

However, I'll still answer the question, with a page straight out of Lady Pact's life.  In other words, this is a true story.

A couple of months back, I was the guest at the home of some folks who were holding a BDSM party, with a luau theme.  A very nice get together.  These people really are wonderful hosts who are always very gracious.  I wouldn't pass up one of their parties for the world.

Anyway, one of the guests that evening happened to be a male Dominant from out of town.  During the course of conversation, he happened to ask Me the same question from across the room.  The chatter from the folks went silent.  Then, as if by cue, the entire room lit up with laughter. When it died down, I tried to be very polite and tell him then as I'm telling you here now.

No, dear, I don't switch.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 8:55:19 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		interesting but even in play, did a person ever try to top you, if it was fun, would it matter, would it not why, how would you react if someone tried to top you and continued trying

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 8:57:09 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		if it was only temporary topping like a game for twenty minutes, would you mind, after all you play for fun yes

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:07:10 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
I have had this in long term relationships in the past, and ultimately longterm sexual compatibility is going to be a huge factor in keeping a relationship solid.  I can't talk about divorce, having kids and people staying in relationships for the sake of the family, etc., because I don't have kids - so it's easy for me to say that if a partner was ok with kink then 6 or 8 years later not, I would end the relationship vs. stay in it or move it into an open relationship with compromise - I would never give up doing S&M on a very regular basis.

What I think is difficult is that some people may just have a passing interest in bdsm, and that interest may be years. But for those of us really, honestly wired for kink, we recognize that it's not just something we do for fun.  It's not a matter of "if you loved me, you would not need to play those S&M games," - it's not an urge or just a fun  hobby that we'd "miss," it's core to us.  That's one of the main reasons that longterm compatibility is almost always going to be more safe with someone wired that way, because you can't explain to someone what it feels like to have those kinds of urges.

For someone not "born" kinky, they could very easily believe the desire to do S&M is as random as the desire to play tennis for someone who really loves tennis.  Could they give it up?  Sure, they would be sad, but they would just deal with it.  This is not the same as having a desire that is so inside of you that you can't help but compare it to a desire for something as natural as food.  It's organic, honest, deep and sometimes flat out distracting - it's not just something to do when bored, when looking for a little fun.

Akasha


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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:24:33 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		i don t mean to be insolent. i am an aspiring slave. However i read somewhere that you know when a Domme gets everything she wants, complete obedience and complete submission to her will, it sort of takes the thrill out of owning her servant. it s like the article concluded waking up on Christmas morning knowing that you will get everything you wanted. my question is this do you subscribe to this view, is it more exciting for you to own a servant who is a little bit difficult , shows a bit of attitude from time to time and is a little yorky but good than have a servant who is completely docile, does that not detract from the experience
intrigued aspiring slave
kevin

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:34:27 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm beginning to understand entirely how you chose your screen name here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

interesting but even in play, did a person ever try to top you, if it was fun, would it matter, would it not why, how would you react if someone tried to top you and continued trying


No.  Doing so would be entirely disrespectful.  I don't associate with people in this lifestyle who would just walk up to a person and attempt topping them.  My version of fun has nothing to do with bottoming.  I have no idea of how someone could try to top Me without My involvement in a scene in some way.   In this country, a person who attempts to top a person who has not consented to play with them is called assault.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

if it was only temporary topping like a game for twenty minutes, would you mind, after all you play for fun yes


Playing for fun has nothing to do with whether or not a person enjoys topping only, bottoming only, or play that involves being either.  Just because a person likes to play doesn't necessarily mean that they will take on either one.  It's not like I go to an event and say to Myself, "Gee, there's no one here for Me to top, so I'll bottom today."  (The people here who know Me in real life can stop trying to figure out when the last time was that I didn't have someone to top actually happened.  It's literally been years.)

I think what you need to do is perhaps get some better clarification on your use of terms.  Please understand that some Dominant females do not have an interest in bottoming.  If you ask someone for their opinion of their role in the future, I do hope you will accept their answer, rather than what you seem to be doing here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz



You are the reason decent male subs have such a hard time finding women to connect with.


I'm agreeing with this comment more and more.  Btw, will I finally be meeting you at DomCon?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lobodomslavery)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:37:44 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Unless you know you are something you are not pretending to be, I can't consider it 'bait and switch' -- only a lack of self-awareness.

And I do put some blame on folks who get married and have sex then discover their kinky interests. I think if you are not self-aware enough to at least consider you might be, then I doubt you are self-aware enough to consent to sex or marriage.

Being naive might be sweet but I hardly think it is a criteria to build any relationship upon.

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:46:00 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		No respectfully Lady Pact, my intention would never be to approach a Female Dominant and ask them to bottom. in fact i would never go up to a woman and top them without their consent. i m talking about was there ever a time when you took say a slight spanking or not even that just switched for a bit and allowed someone else to boss you , maybe give you verbal orders for a short period say twenty minutes just to gain some relief or maybe even some perspective. it s just Lady Pact i have read elsewhere that there are Dommes who have bottomed and this was benenficial because it meant what they were giving their subs was something that they had experienced themselves. But yes your absolutely right, topping someone with impunity or with no regard for whether that person want s to be topped is plain assault . its like going out on the street and slapping someone. its not done and its not done in the BDSM world i hope. and i hope there would always be safewords allowed so that the sub could tell the Dominant that he/she was in pain or whatever and wanted to cease or at the very least the Domme took cognisance of the sub's limits. But no topping with impunity is WRONG, if the person hasnt consented, play or otherwise.

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:51:38 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		As for meeting you at Domcon, if i could somehow get full time employment , be made permanent and have a regular income which would enable me to leave home, it would be a possibility but id say the way the world economy is going at the moment and the fact that employers are not hiring, only 3% i last checked, i would reckon that possibility is somewhat remote to say the least for this year. In the future the possibility is stronger. but having got out of depression, i now face another challenge and im in a tough spot at the moment not unlike the vast majority of people i d say
kevin

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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:53:52 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		what am i doing sending to myself? i think i am having a bad day alright, silly me, anyway as for meeting you at Domcon, if i could somehow get full time employment , be made permanent and have a regular income which would enable me to leave home, it would be a possibility but id say the way the world economy is going at the moment and the fact that employers are not hiring, only 3% i last checked, i would reckon that possibility is somewhat remote to say the least for this year. In the future the possibility is stronger. but having got out of depression, i now face another challenge and im in a tough spot at the moment not unlike the vast majority of people i d say
kevin 

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