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RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:59:04 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lobodomslavery

what am i doing sending to myself? i think i am having a bad day alright, silly me, anyway as for meeting you at Domcon, if i could somehow get full time employment , be made permanent and have a regular income which would enable me to leave home, it would be a possibility but id say the way the world economy is going at the moment and the fact that employers are not hiring, only 3% i last checked, i would reckon that possibility is somewhat remote to say the least for this year. In the future the possibility is stronger. but having got out of depression, i now face another challenge and im in a tough spot at the moment not unlike the vast majority of people i d say
kevin

Someone really did do something to your head, didn't they?

The comment about getting the chance to meet at DomCon was directed to Lynnxz, as should have been easy enough to determine by the fact that I quoted her directly above it. While she and I have often been at the same place at the same time, we've not yet had an opportunity to meet. I'm hoping to have that pleasure next weekend.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 21

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 9:59:24 AM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

Quit being a creeper lobo.

LP, I'll be at DomCon all of Friday (Mmnmm... piercing class) and probably Thursday and Saturday a bit as well. :D Look forward to running into you!

_____________________________

HBIC

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 22

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:03:34 AM

ChampagneMojito

Posts: 77
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Unless you know you are something you are not pretending to be, I can't consider it 'bait and switch' -- only a lack of self-awareness.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Only thing I'd add is that people do develop or 'stumble across' new interests over time. I didn't hear about BDSM until I was 22 (convent educated Irish gal

), by which time I already had one 4 year relationship under my belt. Sure, I'd experimented with spanking, tieing someone up, etc, but that's a million miles from the 24/7 Mistress slave relationship I'm in now, and couldn't bear to be without.

That said, I don't think there's one of us out there who hasn't tried to put on our 'best show' initially when we meet someone we're strongly interested in. My boy didn't see me schlopping around in pjs and slippers on a Saturday for the first few months, and yes, I did try and keep those 'toots' under muffles.

_____________________________

I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 23

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:05:13 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

Quit being a creeper lobo.

LP, I'll be at DomCon all of Friday (Mmnmm... piercing class) and probably Thursday and Saturday a bit as well. :D Look forward to running into you!

Fantastic! I plan on being at the same class. That is, if I leave here early enough to be in Atlanta by that hour. If not, I shouldn't be hard to spot. Just look for the redhead leading a boy with a red leash.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Lynnxz)

Post #: 24

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:11:28 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

yes im not offended though, just perhaps a bit bewildered by this whole thing, i mean the only thing that stops me from submitting in real time is the fear, i read so many horror stories and since i ve never done this before, the thought of going to a munch three thousand miles away , it s a little bit intimidating, and yes i do have anxiety issues, i feel very uncomfortable among people particularly that are from different necks of the woods and different backgrounds, america no less than ireland is goofy in certain areas, there is places in ireland i would not go near, america is the same, its all a bit scary and finding the right person to submit is a minefield as there is only so much you can gather from internet conversation
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 25

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:15:17 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Put your fears away, kid. I wasn't asking you in the first place. Didn't you understand what I told you in email, either?

Am I the only one not getting why this doesn't seem to be going through?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 26

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:19:21 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

yeah sorry me and my big mouth or rather the big typing motor mouth, im rather flattered to be called a kid to be honest at 30. and no i shouldnt have dragged in personal stuff, although i do see that there are some groups who cater for people with mental health issues which ive had for a few years now
regards
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:20:35 AM

Lynnxz

Posts: 4813
Joined: 10/3/2006
From: Atlanta
Status: offline

No, I'm pretty sure I get it.

_____________________________

HBIC

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 28

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 10:52:13 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChampagneMojito

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo

Unless you know you are something you are not pretending to be, I can't consider it 'bait and switch' -- only a lack of self-awareness.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

Only thing I'd add is that people do develop or 'stumble across' new interests over time. I didn't hear about BDSM until I was 22 (convent educated Irish gal ), by which time I already had one 4 year relationship under my belt. Sure, I'd experimented with spanking, tieing someone up, etc, but that's a million miles from the 24/7 Mistress slave relationship I'm in now, and couldn't bear to be without.

That said, I don't think there's one of us out there who hasn't tried to put on our 'best show' initially when we meet someone we're strongly interested in. My boy didn't see me schlopping around in pjs and slippers on a Saturday for the first few months, and yes, I did try and keep those 'toots' under muffles.

This is true, we grow and change. I think any decent relationship then would be open to communication and changes too as time went on.

I get annoyed by all the "I can't tell my wife/husband" whatever threads... it seems so wrong to me to be in a relationship where you honestly feel you can't tell someone about things you are becoming interested in.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to ChampagneMojito)

Post #: 29

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 11:30:00 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

im sorry i may have been over anxious in my mail earlier. i am more reasssured having read one of the reviews from one of your bottoms of your Professional capability. it was very positive and said that you pride yourself on ensuring the emotional safety of bottoms and your level of care for them is second to none. in the unlikely event that i come over i would feel comfortable in approaching you. but thats a long shot and besides Lady Pact you are right you get more requests from males to bottom than you can possibly fulfill. that means you have to be selective pick and choose and some people are obviously going to be disappointed as not all will get to play with you, there simply wouldnt be the time. but like i say if circumstances brought the situation about i would have no fears in bottoming for you and No i wouldnt ask you to switch or even go there. mostly i would be comfortable in having a chat with you, just a friendly chat about everything and nothing something irish people are good at, i could talk about the weather all day. but like i say i would totally respect your choice about not switching, i am simply not a manipulative or coercive type, its not my character , if im annoyed about something i just walk away
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 30

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 12:35:24 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

Wow, what a threadjack. Okay, in order of importance:

#1: Now I'm really bummed that I'm not going to DomCon. I'll get to Atlanta/Augusta someday, really I will. I hope you two have a great time.

#2: One of my best friends got to the age of 35, looked around the BDSM scene, saw no one she wanted to have a child with, met a vanilla guy who is both hot and an awesome human being, and decided she would try to make things work with a man who would be a great husband and father. Long story short: two years later, they have a beautiful daughter who they are raising together, but they've decided to look for other people to satisfy their sexual desires because he's not kinky enough and she's not nilla enough. So even though they couldn't make the sex thing work, they are best friends, and great parents. Yeah, they baited, and yeah, they switched. But just because you switch, it doesn't mean you switch to something lousy. The most important thing here is to be a mature adult.

#3: Lobodomslavery, the most important thing here is to be a mature adult.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 31

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 1:23:42 PM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

#3: Lobodomslavery, the most important thing here is to be a mature adult.

Nods, you know i was reading this thread and my stomach was lurching in a rather unattractive manner I actualy felt physically embaressed for him.

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 32

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 2:19:27 PM

TermsConditions

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline

I agree with others. To me "Bait and Switch" indicates an intention to deceive -- a intentional lie.

People and circumstances are infinitely complex. So much so that our commonalities surprise me more often than our differences. Circumstances, interests, and personalities change and adapt over time as well. Aware at an early age and not knowing better, I was ashamed of my tendencies. They were confusing and disjointed -- defects to be hidden, feeling to be suppressed, wants to be ignored. I met my then future bride in graduate school. She was older, brilliant, bossy, organized and dominated every social and professional circumstance. She might stalemate with a dominant male occasionally but always won out because of superior intellect, organization, and drive. We dated for 3 years. She led all aspects of our relationship. We married. At some point we began to distance, certainly due to professional and civic obligations. We had children. A couple of years ago I came out of a fog to realize I had become an unhealthy workaholic. I made almost all of the recitals / plays / programs, all of the parent-teacher conferences, most of the games, ate dinner with my family most nights. despite this I had become irrelevant in my house. I was good for opening jars, killing spiders, keeping our checking account topped off, and little else. I've been on a mission since to renew, repair and re-engage. To re-engage with my spouse, my family and myself. To that last end I found myself here. Until I found CM I thought D/s and kink were only fantasies. I had no idea that real people could and did integrate D/s and kink into their real lives. I want more -- with my wife. I don't beleive I ever intententionally deceived her. Regarding uses of the the term. I remember being in trouble and my father unfolding his pocket knife, handing it to me and saying, "Go cut me a switch." A phrase to strike terror in the heart of any 7-year old. lol

< Message edited by TermsConditions -- 10/4/2008 2:26:25 PM >

_____________________________

TnC
Married, Novice Subbish-Type Person
and rider of the Drama Llama.

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 33

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 3:38:40 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Trust Me, folks. I'll no longer be hijacking My own thread. However, there might be another thread topic started.

When I started with the idea, it came directly from various threads about people changing their minds about whether they were kinky or not. In some cases, I don't think it's an intentional ploy at all. The internet is a wonderful thing, but how long has it had a direct impact on people learning about BDSM? Even if I pushed it, I'd say a couple of decades at best. Still, if you're going to search something up, you have to know what to put in the box when you're looking for it. Two decades from now, we won't be hearing stories such as those who came into this later in life because they didn't know it existed. We're on our way to moving past that generation.

Yes, I do think people go through different phases in life and change interests. I don't see a thing wrong with that. People grow and they do change. However, this becomes a little more complicated when the person who is wanting to live a different way is partnered with a person who wants to continue in the way they had before. No, I can't say that I'm in the 'try it if you love them' camp. It's nice if they are willing to do that, but I think that if they know who they are, and that happens to be vanilla, that should be ok.

We don't hear about it as often when the positions are changed. When two kinky people get together, and then one of them decides they are vanilla later, I don't see the same kinds of reactions. It's very rare folks will give the 'try it if you love them' response. Oh no. That's when we hear all about how a kink relationship was what was founded and we go into great detail with advice on how to get that back into the couple's life. Along with the chimes of get yourself a real Dom/me or sub/slave.

We're biased on this, folks. Inevitably, no matter who started where, we side with the person who choses kink.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to TermsConditions)

Post #: 34

RE: Bait and switch - 10/4/2008 4:27:20 PM

tweedydaddy

Posts: 673
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline

People are people and they change and evolve. But this concept does look like yet another label is developing. I never take anything for granted and make no assumptions. It would not be the first time a subby boy has turned out to be anything but submissive! The sad fact about this scene is that lots of people don't really know what the hell they are, and when they find out it would be a pity to pigeon hole them into what they started out as.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 35

RE: Bait and switch - 10/5/2008 2:17:27 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Well, label or not, when you notice a core phenomenon, you have to call it something.

The thing is, when it comes to vanilla and kink, not everybody changes. There are plenty of relationships out there where two people start as vanilla, are happy being vanilla, and stay that way. The same holds true for some kinky couples. What this thread concept is more about is when one person changes, or maybe reveals who they really were all along, and the other doesn't.

Let's say for example, tweedydaddy, that tomorrow your LadyLove came to you and said that she no longer wanted to live the way that you two have built your lives. That she had felt that she wanted a more conventional lifestyle. No more poly. No more subs. No more kink. Now, even in this hypothetical, from what I have gathered from your posts, it's more than obvious that you love her and would do this for her. Still, wouldn't you be thrown if she did a 180?

That's the core issue that I'm talking about. The truth is, I could have made an example of a few people in this thread, Myself included. In fact, it has been Myself. When I came back to the lifestyle, My then vanilla husband was willing to come along with Me. It doesn't work like that for everyone. That's the concept I'm talking about here.

It's all well and good when two people chose to change together. What happens when one person in a relationship changes, and the other doesn't? What happens when one person hides their real identity? What happens when someone is kinky at heart, but goes into that vanilla relationship anyway? How is that slave supposed to respond when her Master decides he wants a vanilla life?

I'm not saying these things are necessarily done by intention or design. While that might be true for some, it isn't for all. In this past week, when I've had more time for these message boards, I have seen a lot of it. I've wondered why this theme seems to come up over and over.

I was just wondering if anyone else had noticed it.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 36

RE: Bait and switch - 10/5/2008 5:43:39 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

all relationships are difficult and need work. at the end of the day it may be stating the obvious to say it but we are dealing with human beings here. at the end of the day whether sub, slave, or Domme/Dom or whatever such status a person accredits him/herself , we are all human beings who all need particular needs and support at times. i recall the quote from literature No one is an island entire of himself. You could apply that Women too. we are all social beings who need social support and a social network. otherwise life becomes impossible and such things as loneliness, anxiety etc etc can set in. No one likes to be isolated
kevin

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 37

RE: Bait and switch - 10/5/2008 5:53:21 AM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

***FR***

Over the past 4 or 5 years since I started in the bdsm world I've been trying to work out exactly what I am, and what I need. With the help of a large number of wonderful people I think I have it straight...I'm a masochist primarily, and submissive secondarily.

So when chatting to potential Doms I make this clear - I'm a pain junkie and I will need my fix. I'm NOT a slave - it's just not in me to do that, although I will be submissive to the right Master. I got chatting to a nice guy, met up a few times purely 'nilla style, and we got on really well. We decided to spend a day or two together and finally get kinky, and....nada. Nothing. Bit of a mild hand-spanking. I asked him where his toys were (the ones he'd boasted about)...he had none. Then he went on to tell me that I was wrong, that in fact I WAS a slave, I just hadn't met him before....sheesh!

Next!

_____________________________

There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to lobodomslavery)

Post #: 38

RE: Bait and switch - 10/5/2008 6:09:42 AM

lobodomslavery

Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline

i think experience in any walk of life is the greatest asset of all. You know what its like in real time because you have experienced it and you have no apprehensions. But there's not a man on this site who woulnt be a little bit apprehensive before his first meeting with a Dominant Male or Female because he simply hasnt done it before. You wouldnt be fearless about going deep sea diving for the first time because the unknown would naturally excite you and make you nervous in equal measure. If it didnt there woud be something wrong. Its the same with this or anything, the more you do of something the more comfortable you become doing but if you ve never done it before well obviously it will seem a little terrifying.
kevin

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 39

RE: Bait and switch - 10/5/2008 7:38:02 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

We don't hear about it as often when the positions are changed. When two kinky people get together, and then one of them decides they are vanilla later, I don't see the same kinds of reactions. It's very rare folks will give the 'try it if you love them' response. Oh no. That's when we hear all about how a kink relationship was what was founded and we go into great detail with advice on how to get that back into the couple's life. Along with the chimes of get yourself a real Dom/me or sub/slave.

I think a lot of "kinky relationships" simply fade over time because those involved don't do the work of maintaining the authority dynamic. It isn't easy to do in the face of life's necessities and the lack of solid long-term models. Far easier to fall back on the vanilla models that are all around us and supported.

Tom and I didn't stop being kinky, just stopped scening together because we learned enough to know the compromises weren't worth the minor pleasures. Are we vanilla? It depends on what you think vanilla is. I am the dominant member of the entire household but he is not obedient so I'd say we're more vanilla non-traditional in that sense.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 40

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