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RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 9:15:29 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

We seem to be mixing definitions here. Legally sex would involve direct genital contact. After all, penetration is not required for a man to receive a hand job and I count that as sex, as is a hitachi on the clit - no penetration but definitely sex in my book.

However when we ask whether or not BDSM is sexual, then I think we're switching to emotions. If a masochist orgasms from being whipped, that's sexual even without direct genital contact or penetration. If being humiliated gets a male sub harder than a tree trunk, that's sexual. Et cetera.


I was thinking this, also.  Sex (physical act) vs. sexual (attitude/emotions).

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(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 9:20:28 AM   
Roselaure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

We seem to be mixing definitions here. Legally sex would involve direct genital contact. After all, penetration is not required for a man to receive a hand job and I count that as sex, as is a hitachi on the clit - no penetration but definitely sex in my book.

However when we ask whether or not BDSM is sexual, then I think we're switching to emotions. If a masochist orgasms from being whipped, that's sexual even without direct genital contact or penetration. If being humiliated gets a male sub harder than a tree trunk, that's sexual. Et cetera.


This is an important distinction.  For me BDSM is always sexual, even though it may not always include sex.

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Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 9:30:41 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Yes, like everyone else, I agree with DesFIP.  I can't imagine how BDSM could be "not sexual."  The people who say things like that either are still hung up on the "sex is dirty and cheap" nonsense or they want to make sure people understand that you can still have BDSM without, say, vaginal penetration.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

We seem to be mixing definitions here. Legally sex would involve direct genital contact. After all, penetration is not required for a man to receive a hand job and I count that as sex, as is a hitachi on the clit - no penetration but definitely sex in my book.

However when we ask whether or not BDSM is sexual, then I think we're switching to emotions. If a masochist orgasms from being whipped, that's sexual even without direct genital contact or penetration. If being humiliated gets a male sub harder than a tree trunk, that's sexual. Et cetera.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 9:36:05 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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Sex is when my dick goes in something.

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 9:41:03 AM   
ChampagneMojito


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I see sex as a hugely important, primal part of my D/s relationship.  I see my D/s relationship as a way to harness strong, sexual impulses and bring them into many mundane aspects of the relationship - e.g. washing the dishes can become foreplay if I order him to do them, etc.

But I think the OP is asking about the parts of D/s relationships, if there are any, that are not sexual in nature and where that division lies.  For me, yes, my sexual impulses are a huge componant of why I sought a D/s relationship.  But certainly, they're not the only driver.

I am a bossy, assertive woman.  I like to express love for people important to me by taking care of them.  I grew up in a house of arguments, and always wanted a relationship that was a peaceful, quiet place where my authority would be unchallenged.  If I had never picked up a whip or learned to tie a knot in my life, I have no doubt I would still have selected a man with a submissive nature for my partner, who would essentially let me have the largest say in our home, social lives, etc.

There are plenty of such relationships out there - people snicker about them behind their hands saying 'she wears the trousers in that relationship' etc. - which do not sexualise that control or involve formal D/s structures. 

In Ireland, women are traditionally strong, fiesty and outspoken.  Even in the 50s, it would have been common for a man to have control over his work, etc., but the woman to run the home, manage the budget, the children, etc. and be deferred to by her husband  in much of the decision-making.  Plenty of my mother's friends are assertive, talkative, domineering women with quiet, biddable husbands.  They're not all using dildos and japanese bondage.  At least, I think they're not.

To sum up, while much of my D/s relationship is sexual, there are many parts that aren't yet nonetheless, form a hugely significant part of it. 

_____________________________

I, with a deeper instinct, choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or my toughness, who does not believe me naïve or innocent, who has the courage to treat me like a woman. ~Anaïs Nin

(in reply to Roselaure)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 10:17:51 AM   
Roselaure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Sex is when my dick goes in something.


Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 10:27:22 AM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure
Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?


Ouchies...

*Crosses legs involuntarily*

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 10/4/2008 10:28:38 AM >


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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 11:20:08 AM   
KnightofMists


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maybe a better question.. IS BDSM sexual?

I don't see BDSM as sexual or sex.  I can engage into BDSM and have no sexual charge or arrousal from the act.  I am not any more turned on doing BDSM than I am from going out and playing a game of hockey.

However, unlike hockey... I have engaged in BDSM and can be very sexually turned on... but it still is not sex for me.  I don't consider myself a sexual sadist...

I see a sexual sadist as someone that causes pain for the sexual pleasures they gain from the acts.   I am more a Power Sadist... in that engaging the acts of causing pain fills me with a sense of power over the person.  Now these feelings of power are just that .... a feeling.   The feelings will slowly subside after the session has ended.  I see many consider the act of BDSM as being Dominating over the person because of the power they feel and therefore they are a Dominant.  I dont see myself as a Dominant because of the feeling I gain from the session or anyone else for that matter.  I think this is a common feeling that many Tops in a scene will feel.  But that feeling itself doesn't make them or me a Dominant.  I see being a Dominant more than a feeling felt in a given moment because of doing a given act.




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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 11:47:57 AM   
ExSteelAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Sex is when my dick goes in something.


Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?


Yeah, I figured someone would go there, but thought what the hell. Succinct statements have a way of surviving comebacks.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to Roselaure)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 12:50:59 PM   
CreativeDominant


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I'm going to agree with Greedy...if it is erotically charged and evokes an increased feeling of need within me, it is sexual.  The definitions of sadism and masochism include nothing about penetration but do include the fact that, for most folks, sadism/masochism is receiving sexual arousal from the infliction/reception of pain.
That's at its most basic level.  People build all types of layers around it such that a flogging is now seen as only/mainly spiritual for some, only/mainly cathartic for others and perhaps the best way to get clean (knocks the dirt off, you know?) by others.

This, to me, comes down to asking a similar question when it comes cheating...what do you think a particular act is...erotic and/or sexual and/or sex?  What does your significant other think a particular act is...erotic and/or sexual and/or sex?  And the answer comes back the same way as it did for cheating...if you are with a significant other but have been allowed to play with others, then what matters is not what you think a certain act is but what your significant other thinks the act is. 

Sometimes a blowjob can be an act of submission and the submission is the main intent and purpose behind the act...but it is still, at its base, a blowjob. 

(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 12:54:30 PM   
ExSteelAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Sex is when my dick goes in something.


Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?


How do you know ChainedExistence so well? (She asked for that with her smart ass e-mail to me.)   She laughed like hell at your post. Heh.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 12:58:56 PM   
lateralist1


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I'm pretty certain that BDSM is something different for almost everyone.
So maybe this will clarify some things for me.
1 I would never indulge in BDSM with anyone that I didn't want a committed sexual relationship with. Including penetrative sex.
2 The above for me means that he will want to serve me. If he didn't I wouldn't want the relationship.
3 We have agreed that if I am upset with him then I can discipline him in anyway I need to.
3 Some activities give me a sexual charge.
4 Some activities give me a power charge.
5 Some activities give me a sense of achievement.
6 Some activities make me happy because he loves them.
7 Some activities make me happy because he hates them but still does them for me.
Maybe there is more but I haven't figured them out yet.
I never try and second guess what it is about for anyone else.
I used to but I learned the hard way lol.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 1:00:07 PM   
ChainedExistence


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He's called me many things before...but I rather like rabid wolverine....grrrrr!

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 2:49:23 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Sex is when my dick goes in something.


Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?


What do you have against wolverines? 
 
John
 
P.S. - Next you'll be putting down badgers.

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Roselaure)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 3:02:48 PM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

Sex to me includes a tub of baby oil. A shaved donkey. Three midgets... and a blow up kiddy pool. Greedy is optional.


C-D


With all due respect, C_D....Greedy is never,ever, optional.

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And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 3:18:33 PM   
OttersSwim


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover
P.S. - Next you'll be putting down badgers.


"Oh. Um, l-- look, i-- i-- if we built this large wooden badger..."

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 3:19:57 PM   
GreedyTop


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*smooches Pers*

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 3:55:12 PM   
Roselaure


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Sex is when my dick goes in something.


Really?  When it goes in a vise?  In a vat of acid?  In the mouth of a rabid wolverine?


What do you have against wolverines? 
 
John
 
P.S. - Next you'll be putting down badgers.


Don't get me wrong Rover, I love wolverines, I really do, but, and I'm just guessing here, that most men would not want their cocks in a wolverine's mouth, expecially a rabid one.  Or a badger for that matter.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 3:58:44 PM   
Rover


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

Don't get me wrong Rover, I love wolverines, I really do, but, and I'm just guessing here, that most men would not want their cocks in a wolverine's mouth, expecially a rabid one.  Or a badger for that matter.


Well, I dunno... the male wolverines and badgers seem to like it just fine.  Now I'm not suggesting that I'd be the first to try it, mind you.  I'll wait for the reports to roll in.
 
John

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"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: What is sex - 10/4/2008 4:08:30 PM   
KatyLied


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quote:

Now I'm not suggesting that I'd be the first to try it, mind you. 


sissy





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Profile   Post #: 60
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