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RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 5:10:31 PM

MsMillgrove

Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline

This man is in your life for nearly twenty years. He's not the person you wish he would be, he is the one he has chosen to be. You know him as he is. He won't change. You won't either. He'll never be the person you wish could be. So....

Maybe you can get together and talk about the good things you've shared together by mail, your private
happinesses together.. and let the rest pass by. If you can't take it in the present..as a chance to connect with someone you've cared about on a limited basis...well don't do it.

I have an online sub that plans to come visit me in the summer and I'm having second and twelfth thoughts for a less complex but similiar situation... person is who she is.. not who I wish she could be.

When online subs don't live up to your standards or hopes, you dump them or you enjoy the things that attracted them to you, and don't require anymore of them. That is a curse and blessing of the online sub. Less investment needed and if they become stars in your firmament--it's so hard to accept that they twinkle in the cold night where you can not touch them.

When you switch into a real time mode with an online sub, you're always unnerved by experience. So have fun if you can do it. Good luck!

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 21

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 5:16:46 PM

Seifer

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/7/2008
Status: offline

I have a firm belief that people can change, they just have to want to change themselves.
Maybe a face to face meeting will allow you to make up your mind whether to keep contact or dispose of the relationship entirely.
Many people find it difficult to hide their intentions in this scenario.
Whatever the decision you make I wish you peace.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)

Post #: 22

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 5:23:18 PM

hopelesslyInvo

Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline

i'm a little dense, is it 4 hours there and another 4 back, or 2 and 2?

if i had an open window of time, i'd probably drive 2 hours and pay it no mind just to have dinner with you and have no concern of play or relationship developments simply because it would be a nice way to spend a night. i'd also drive 4 hours to see you or some other people i've become familiar and fond of than drive 30 mins to see some of the local scaries that live in louisville. if i had such freedom to hop away from home and work, i'd also probably drive several states just to get a hug from shakti, or to do some housework for bsb without expecting... and perhaps in some perspective not even wanting anything more in return than one more pleasant conversation to which we've already had, as well as the chance to see them with my own eyes and hear their voice in person.

knowing how i feel, and trying to understand how you two feel, if i were you, i would go have dinner. if you think you need to make clear to him that what the night will include is limited to the confines of your restaurant table in order to be sure he knows exactly what he can expect from his efforts, i'd tell him so when you gave him your yes or no reply. i figure, it sounds like you and him have something to tell each other whether it be 'good or bad or even goodbye', and i'd think having the opportunity to speak face to face about it would be a good thing.

as far as calling someone a liar... there are many times to avoid lying and remain as honest as i can, i simply tell them nothing other than 'i do not want to say'. in that regard i see him and me to be similar in how we either remain honest, or are seen as deceitful by others; the difference is apparently in 'what' we hide. for example, in the past if someone were to ask about my sex life, out of embarrasment to both men and women i often would not tell people how many partners i have had sex with, though telling the truth often enough got me called a liar anyway~ i'm an honest person, but not exactly the most open; i'm one of the sorts who is going to take more than 3 licks to get to the center.

but i can't seem to understand the reasoning in hiding the things he has, a wife and child are not embarrassments, or something to be shameful of, or things that should be difficult or make a person uneasy to talk about. coupled with the logic that in a relationship you're supposed to be open and grow closer together, and that this relationship has a more than respectable timeline in which to do so... there comes a point when the hiding of knowledge is just as deceitful as blatantly lying.

even with my habit of silence, the closer i get to people in a relationship, the more comfortable i am about bringing the secrets of me to air, i begin to want them to know. that's how i've always thought things should be.

where i don't see him and me relating is... pretty much every human being in the world even when not knowing english, and especially we keeping in touch over a time period of 6 years is bound to at some point ask, 'what have you been up to?' or 'so, anything new in your life' and if the answer to that is 'nothing' rather than 'i got married and have a daughter' he's not able to say he's just withholding the answer, that really is just lying.

it seems like he's treating you as his 'mistress' by the definition of vanilla dictionaries, keeping both women of his life secret and hidden from the other.

so i imagine you have much to talk about, and much you already have; a night out somewhere for dinner would be a dandy place to continue such a conversation in my opinion, unless you think the conversation will cross the bounds of being civilized.

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 10/7/2008 5:43:22 PM >

_____________________________

great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 23

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 6:03:36 PM

herpet1313

Posts: 68
Joined: 9/18/2005
Status: offline

Forgive me, but what value is there in having an on-line sub (or dominant)? It has to be fantasy only, right?
Perhaps this should be a new topic.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)

Post #: 24

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 6:40:16 PM

hopelesslyInvo

Posts: 522
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: the future
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: herpet1313

Forgive me, but what value is there in having an on-line sub (or dominant)? It has to be fantasy only, right?
Perhaps this should be a new topic.

think of someone you know and are quite fond of but rarely get the chance to be around in person, then ask what is the value of telephones, what point is there in them sending pictures from back home.

it's a relationship limited in connection, but people often prefer taking what they can get to having nothing.

_____________________________

great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.

(in reply to herpet1313)

Post #: 25

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 6:42:00 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Online relationships can be very intense, and satisfying if you are good at setting boundaries AND, in my opinion, if you have friends and lovers in real time.

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[page 23 girl]

(in reply to hopelesslyInvo)

Post #: 26

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 6:55:33 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I will give a strictly my personal take on it. If he couldnt be bothered to tell you about something as important as a wife and child, and if he is likely keeping any mention of you from her as well... you are walking into a potentially disasterous position. If she finds out somehow that he made covert plans to meet with you, and anything else that mght happen, think of the remifications in the family as well. Honestly do you believe he has been onest with his wife about is submissive traits, or do you think he may have forgotten to mention that and his relationship with you for however many eyars its been going on.
I wouldnt be bothered meeting someone even for a moment if they couldnt be bothered telling me the truth about their lives. If I do not matter enough for them to share the good things as well as the bad, then they dont matter enough for me to make plans with. Maybe that makes me difficult, but I am demanding.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 27

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 7:02:25 PM

Reigna

Posts: 334
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

On the one hand, he 'overlooks' what most people would consider the most important things in one's life... his family. On the other, he was so kind and supportive when my father died last year... telling me about how he was at his mother's side when she died and it was the only time in years that she had told him that she loved him.

When I was in a dark and depressed place a couple of years ago, he was the one who pulled me out of it.

I've known men like this. Oscillating between good and bad is the classic abusive pattern. Drop him.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 28

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 7:06:05 PM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

Thanks to each and every one of you who shared a new perspective. That is exactly what I needed.

Hopeless, it would be a 2 or 2.5 hour drive up, a couple of hours with me and then approximately 2 hour's drive back to Atlanta. Quite 'doable' for most people as it's all interstate. I have made the trip down to Atlanta for business and entertainment purposes several times and always thought it was 'worth it'.

As to why I can't seem to let go... History. I met him back in 1989 and spent one amazing evening with him. It was, without a doubt, the best sex I've ever had. I ever wrote a soft core porn story about it almost 10 years after the fact. Then there was no contact between us for over 4 years. I tried to find him, but no luck. He finally found me on the net after I had pretty much given up on him. We had a rather silly flirtation for quite some time. Not even regular emails... just a couple a week... sometimes going for months without writing, then starting up again. Just silly stuff.

Then 9/11 happened and I knew he worked in downtown NYC. I tried to contact him to make sure he was ok. Nothing. No word. No way of knowing if he was OK or not. I got scared that my friend was dead or hurt or something terrible had happened to him. He finally contacted me 6 months later. He was OK. His office building had been covered with the debris and he naturally lost his job. He moved to upstate NY and was doing ok... working three jobs to pay off the debt encurred during the down time. He also failed to mention that was about the time he fathered his secret daughter.

After that, the dynamic changed. I knew he was a bit more important to me than just an internet flirtation. He was a friend. We chatted much more frequently... but he only wrote to me from work. I thought he just didn't have a home computer. No biggy. He told me about some things in his life... like doing a 'Body Makeover' contest for Gold's Gym. We fantasized about him getting to do a publicity tour for the gym and coming south so we could meet. Even though he won the competition, the 'publicity' done was only a local TV spot, some print ads and a billboard. He told me that he was going back to college to get a 2nd degree in computer sciences because he was an IT professional and wanted his degree to match his employment.

When I got into a seriouse funk... tiping the scales at over 185, having trouble with my marrage, being over worked, having health problems, he badgered me for THREE YEARS to join a gym. He promiced to help me every step of the way. And he did. He was a wonderful trainer. We actually grew much closer having something in real life to discuss and a 'project' to work on together.

Still, he only wrote to me from work. And sometimes it was a bit sketchy. Emails were occasionally 'lost'. I started to notice that any time I asked a difficult question - that note, or his reply - would get 'lost'. That pissed me off. It felt like a lie. I confronted him. He said he didn't always feel that his life was important or interesting enough to bother me with details. Then he started talking about how his wife watched his every move. He couldn't write to me from home because she would see it. Then it started to be that his bosses were watching his every move and that he couldn't surf the internet at work anymore. I understood that lots of companies did that and I didn't complain.

We started planing a get together. We planned on him coming to visit me for over a year. We talked about all the things that we would do when he came. All the places I would take him. He seemed astonished that I was talking about taking him to my gym and introducing him to some of my friends. He sounded almost childlike when he asked "You would take me out in public?" I thought that sounded so sad... so lonely... like I should be ashamed of him for some reason.

Then the dynamic changed drastically the end of June. I found out that he's a giggilo. No wonder his wife watched him like a hawk! No wonder he got in trouble at work... No telling how many women he was talking to on the net. I felt totally betrayed. He was not only cheating on his wife with our 15+ year correspondance, he was cheating on ME! With any woman who would pay for his time. Our scheduled time together was fast approaching. He 'dropped the hint' twice that he needed $300 to come see me. I refused to pay for his services. He claimed that he didn't mean that I should send him the money. But it sure as hell sounded like it. I stopped speaking to him.

When I went to cry about it on my best friend's shoulder... he asked me "And how many pairs of shoes have you been given by those men on CM? What the heck is the difference?" I hate it when my friends are right. I really hate it when they call me a self rightouse whore. I was still angry at my New Yorker for not telling me these things before. I was hurt. I cut him out of my life forever. I didn't speak to him for months. But I also felt bad that I kept hounding him to tell me more about himself, however, every single time he WOULD tell me something, I punished him for it. So who was right? Who was wrong? Both of us? Neither?

Last week he sent me an email asking for permission to speak. He told me that he was going to be in Atlanta and wanted 'a chance to hold my face in his hands.' Now he explains that he worked very hard to arrange to take those classes in Atlanta. He could have attended the seminars in several other cities close to home, but he was hunting for a way to see me. He also wheedled a rental car even though his hotel is only one block from the convention center so he could drive up. Apparently, ever since I canceled our 'date', he's been working his ass off to find a way to get to me.

I think he deserves a dinner. And maybe a walk in the park. I need to know the truth. I even told him that this meeting will either start our relationship back up again or end it forever. I don't know which scares me more. He replied, "Let us face our fears together."

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to herpet1313)

Post #: 29

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 7:25:08 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

So he lies... plays games... plays women as an art/job/benefit to himself and you are going to trust that you will get the truth, now that he is playing good boy? I get that he was nice to you and helped you... but he was also not nice to you and had things gone differently, he could have caused you to undo what good he did in stress and weight. Even if one doesn't over eat or have other factors... stress alone can make you gain.

Anyone who lies, leaves out info and covers their tail end will lie to anyone and I don't care who you are. Cheat on a spouse... gee... what happened to your best friend? If they can cheat on a spouse, they can cheat on anyone.

It sounds like your feelings are based more on fantasy and plans than anything real. So now after fifteen years of lies... games... misconceptions, he is going to get real? Fifteen years is a long time to play a game. It wasn't like a couple of months game time and then admitting it all. Fifteen years you have tried to get something real and are still on an emotional roller coaster.

You need to see him... it sounds like no matter what is said, YOU NEED TO SEE him... I wish you the very best... but I don't think you will find it. But it won't be over until you can make it over dependant upon what you feel, want and do... and I think it has little do do with him at this point. How could it have anything to do with him, besides a great night of sex... he hasn't been real.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 30

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 7:36:22 PM

mztresn0w

Posts: 174
Joined: 1/12/2008
Status: offline

I could only say to follow your mind and not your heart. There is nothing wrong with meeting him if that is what you want to do. Nothing can happen between the two of you that you don't allow to happen. I wish you luck with this and hope for the best for you. Sometimes trying to recapture the past can ruin the future. I learned that the hard way.

_____________________________

Becareful what you ask for you may get it and then realize it wasn't what you wanted.
Wicked Evil Grin

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 31

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 7:52:40 PM

yourMissTress

Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

He never flat out lied to me about anything... he just has a very bad habit of 'not mentioning' things.

A lie of omission is still a lie.

My personal opinion, no lying, none, ever.

_____________________________

Tress

"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 32

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 9:29:21 PM

MsAuthoritarian

Posts: 51
Joined: 9/14/2008
Status: offline

I do not understand why you appear to not think you are worth a face to face relationship that is not filled with all the drama that you have in your internet realtionship now?

I suggest you work on rebuilding your self esteem, self worth and then you just may see that roller coasters belong in amusement parks.

I wish you all the best!

MsAuthoritarian

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 33

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/7/2008 10:30:37 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

He deceives you, and his wife. Deceit should not be forgiven, and you've provided a perfect example of why it shouldn't: He continues to deceive you. Why do you continue to allow it? Don't you think you deserve better? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck... Its a freakin' duck. He's a dishonest person. He won't change as long as people like you will allow themselves to be deceived by him repeatedly. Don't allow it. Don't forgive him.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck... Take a good hard look at yourself. Why are you behaving as though you don't feel you deserve to be treated with honesty and respect? If you are acting like you don't value yourself enough to insist on being treated well... Then maybe you have some lingering self-esteem issues. Maybe, just maybe, you have low self-esteem. Something to think about.

Also, I agree with the sage advice of DV. Read it again please. Jealous spouses have been known to kill. Also I'd like to add: You are taking his attention away from where it should be squarely focused right now- on his marriage and child.

I'd break it off. You deserve sooo much better.

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(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 34

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 2:53:58 AM

rookey

Posts: 100
Status: offline

If you have been lied to once, how do you know if an apparent act of contrition is genuine and not simply another lie?

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(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 35

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 3:55:03 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

Honestly if it were me if he believes that you aren't interested in his life and what goes on in it, taking it so far as to forget to tell you he was married and had a child...to me that is the same thing as lying only doing it silently. If his marriage and child aren't important then how can you be sure that you are? No I'd walk away from this one.

~Lashra

This expresses how I would feel. Then again, I would have ditched him with the first lie of omission. I abhore liars.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 36

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 4:15:41 AM

MsStarlett

Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline

Yep. He's a lying bastard. And I also suffer from "Beauty and the Beast Syndrome"... you know it... that strange desire that women have to take that 'bad boy' and make an honest man out of him. At least now I KNOW he's a lying bastard. At one point, I considered him to be my knight in shinning armor who was going to come swooping in when I needed him the most and make my life so much better. "Calgon - Take me AWAY!" It was about the time I was getting carried away in that particular fantasy that he admitted to having a child. I could deal with 'stealing' a man away from his wife... (After All! If a man is only with HER because he can't be with ME - then she needs to step aside. I had him first! Don't you watch soap operas?) But not a little girl. I'm a lot of things. I'm not a home wrecker. Almost 20 years of fantasies are hard to let go of. But we all have to grow up sometime.

One thing that I do know for sure, I don't have that "OMG! His name is on my list!" excited flutter when I see his email anymore. In fact, when he first started writing agian, my first thought was a slightly annoyed "What do you want?"

To his credit, one could say that he 'protected' his family by not talking about them. Who knew? He could have considered me to be a touch of a crazy stalker bitch. Perhaps in his own mind, he was 'sheilding' his family from the potential disaster that 'another woman' can reek. He DID admit to having family obligations when I got it in my head that he should move south to be with me. I also know that I was sliding into a very deep depression when I started on those 'save me' fantasies. He did save me, by showing me how to dig myself out of it. He helped me get my head back in a good place and start taking care of myself FIRST. That brought back the 'spark' and the self esteam that I had lost somewhere along the way of being a wife, a mom, a business person, a comunity activist and all those 'super woman' things that 'society' told me I had to be while I stuffed my 'evil tendancies' in a locked drawer. I was a Domme trapped in a "June Cleaver" mold that didn't fit. He let me out. For what he did for me, I will always be greatful.

I have also found an EXCELLENT replacement for him in my Westie. Westie may not be my 'perfect physical specimen' that my New Yorker is... but he's very cute. He may not hold two degrees, but he's smart as a whip. Best of all, he loves me. Honestly. Openly. Faithfully. I'll never have that with a giggilo.

I need to put away the fantacies and see the Man. The human being. I need to re-arrange my priorities and establish a new, more realistic dynamic. Wheither that means being 'just friends' or breaking all contact. I just have to get off the roller coaster and stop hiding this strange obsession with dreams that can never happen.

I needed to hear other voices other than those in my head. For those comments and those oppinions, I will always be greatful. Thank you.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to rookey)

Post #: 37

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 4:27:56 AM

LadyLupineNYC

Posts: 618
Joined: 12/14/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

It's true that you may meet him and think to your self 'this? this is what I was so worked up about?!" But first you need to assess who you are now (not 15 years ago) which includes have someone 'new' in your life and who ALSO has YOU in his life...

_____________________________

Facta, non verba gratia placenti

"I have been looking for a way to serve the community that incorporates my violence..."

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 38

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 6:48:26 AM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

To his credit, one could say that he 'protected' his family by not talking about them. Who knew? He could have considered me to be a touch of a crazy stalker bitch. Perhaps in his own mind, he was 'sheilding' his family from the potential disaster that 'another woman' can reek.

MsS, liars *always* have a good reason handy to tell others why they lied (which, of course, becomes yet another lie). But usually, the reason is because they cared only about themselves, not anyone else.

(in reply to MsStarlett)

Post #: 39

RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 8:19:19 AM

Sylverdawn

Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Point Blank.. you must like the ride or you wouldnt keep getting your ticket punched... He didnt get you out of depression you made the decision to get well yourself.. Im sure you had other kind and support people around you when your parent died.. I would ask.. what is the payoff for you.. what do you get out of this sort of continual crisis he brings to your life.. 15 years without face to face.. wow... talk about extended foreplay... I would say that you are at least enabling the drama to continue and I would look at why I am allowing myself to be used like he is.. and then I would thank him for the lesson and growth and walk away.. whew.. thats alot of work.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to tweedydaddy)

Post #: 40

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