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RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 8:30:02 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
My thoughts require a lot of assumptions, so I may be totally off base, but I wanted to share another POV.

It's clear you are not wanting for BDSM partners or play friends, you are happy in your relationship(s) and speak highly of your boy Westie. It's not as if your "long distance" bdsm friend is your only option and your longing to see him, despite knowing he has not been honest with you, isn't because you don't have options - it's because he has a profound impact on you and represents something different, perhaps out of reach, perhaps forbidden, exciting, dangerous. He also got you on a personal level - emotionally, spiritually. There was a connection.

For me, there are clearly men in my past that have rocked my femdom world in a way not many others could, and also brought a connection that was not "soul mate" ish (that's more safe, loving, comfortable, easy) but "drug" ish - very alluring, undenial, SO GOOD, something lustful and exciting at a core level that seems to take great effort to acheive with some partners, but with them, it just worked.  In some cases, the allure was greater because he wasn't obedient, available, complacent - hell, sometimes they've been downright inappropriate, unavailable, or flaky.  But when they were being "good" - oh, their good was so much better than anyone else's GREAT. If that makes sense.

As a femdom, my core instinct is to bring them into alignment with me. To fix them.  To try a variety of ways to make them behave properly.  From cutting them off to trying adoration or affection, to flat out girlie, "How can we make this work?" discussions.  The level of unquestionable DEVOTION I receive from those who adore and cherish and respect me makes it hard for me to reconcile that some men can flitter in and out of my life and burn a flame so HOT when they are there that it's undeniable, yet then turn incredibly wishy washy, weird, inappropriate, flaky, dishonest.

I have a guy-situation similar to yours that went on and off for a few years before I got married and damn, I held a candle for him - I KNEW he'd come around and pull himself together and we'd end up with one another.  It was very on and off, and when he was on it was fabulous and when it was off I was disgusted with my own school-girl type pining for him, considering I had other options. He's the femdom/kink version of the "bad boy" or the boyfriend with "issues" - but instead of thinking like a vanilla girl that love, affection, unconditional caring will "fix" him, we think that ultimately he'll succumb to his to submit and behave himself, for the longterm, and rid himself of his issues, flakiness, dishonesty, whatever. 

When good old fashioned chemistry is that HOT, it's hard to just give up on a guy.  Being a femdom, I tend to feel like there's got to be away that I can "train" him into the proper protocol.  Then I realize, on some level, his inability to be "tamed" is probably one of the great allures there. But it's way too hard to handle emotionally on any longterm basis.  I think your choices are to accept that he is going to be frustrating, unavailable, probably dishonest, and you are going to have emotions intense on both sides - lust, affection and hatred, resentment.  You can focus your dominant energy inward and keep your emotions in check, and hold him at a cool, confident distance so you can enjoy what you need to enjoy but not get hopeful that he's going to change - he isn't.  You can accept the surface level of what the interactions will be, but take ownership of that, not him.  You can set the boundaries.

I think it's a power struggle.  I think as femdoms when we are very, very attracted to a man and he represents a struggle, it both frustrates and irritates our natural desires to see submission, especially when that same man has shown he's capable of it, but it never sticks.  If you mix in a very sweet affectionate friendship, then your emotions are invested on top of that, making it almost at battle constantly with your femdom reasoning and natural state in relationships.

A quick dinner won't get you into trouble.  Do more listening than talking. Don't show your cards.  Always remind yourself what loving and rewarding relationships you have.  Remember that you can live without him.  Be prepare to walk away, or enter an arrangement with him where he must follow the rules you present, but don't get your hopes up. He'll break the rules again. 

I think sadly it will end in time, either way - the question is whether or not the good parts are worth it. 

Again, there's a lot of assumption in this post and a lot of reading my own personal challenges in here, so I may be off base.  Best of luck either way.
Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 6:29:36 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, Akasha,  you are spot on the money.  When he's bratty, it just makes it all that much sweeter when he conforms.  When he's secretive, it makes those moments of confession like precious gems.  He IS that tiger on a chain.  That un-tamable beast who occasionally falls to his knees and licks my feet.  And every time I think I'm over him... he comes crawling back again.  Begging and posturing and promicing to be good.

I know what I got from him, he stroked my ego.  I've just never figured out what in the hell he gets from ME!   I have better relationships.  So does he.  I get all the sex and adoration that I need from others.  I'm assuming that he does also as he has women willing to PAY for his attentions.  But every relationship has to have a pay off... and I've never figured out why he grovels to me.  At the same time, I have to admit that it is an amazing ego boost when he does it.


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 6:40:58 PM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

Actually, Akasha,  you are spot on the money.  When he's bratty, it just makes it all that much sweeter when he conforms.  When he's secretive, it makes those moments of confession like precious gems.  He IS that tiger on a chain.  That un-tamable beast who occasionally falls to his knees and licks my feet.  And every time I think I'm over him... he comes crawling back again.  Begging and posturing and promicing to be good.

I know what I got from him, he stroked my ego.  I've just never figured out what in the hell he gets from ME!   I have better relationships.  So does he.  I get all the sex and adoration that I need from others.  I'm assuming that he does also as he has women willing to PAY for his attentions.  But every relationship has to have a pay off... and I've never figured out why he grovels to me.  At the same time, I have to admit that it is an amazing ego boost when he does it.



Ahh..I hear you.  I feel your pain.  And this is not a call to all subs that you need to be "bratty" or "unavailable" or "resistant" or "unpredictable and dishonest" to get a femdom so hot and bothered over you; it's the entire package, and that the chemistry is there, the submission is sweet, but he just won't settle down and be tamed.  I have wondered how much of that "inavailability" (emotionally, from a surrendering standpoint) is what makes the moments of submission like -- well, like Heroin.  I have never done heroin, but I'll throw it out there.  While bdsm and those intense moments of hot power exchange are like intoxication, the times I have had that surrender from those couple of men that I shared incredibly chemistry with but found ultimately "untrainable" were like heroin.  Like all over body shattering intense "let me freeze this moment, you are amazing," moments.  I would look back at those moments, then look at the incredibly difficult, frustrating man before me, and find it hard to believe THAT was the guy that submitted to me - I held onto those images and memories because they felt so good, and the farther I got from them, the more it seemed like it must have been a dream. 

I guess it's the kinky version of the vanilla dilemma of a person you share mindblowing sexual compatibility with, but are unable to make a functional romantic relationship work, or even a friendship one, because the chemistry is so undeniable.  Because of his nature of "side work" it's clear he's probably got a very keen sense of what women want and need and he's probably incredibly smooth. 

Just be careful. When you see him again, going back to the heroin analogy, you may get a taste and remember what it was like and find it incredibly hard to put back down.

Akasha


_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/8/2008 8:43:14 PM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		The reason he grovels to you is because you let him.. so everytime he gets a bit hot and wants to talk about all his nasty desires that he willl NEVER allow the sunlight to see.. to admit that he craves it.. he comes to you.. and you ALLOW it.. he is the one is charge of the dynamic in this relationship.. he controls when and where..and you await his desire .. you submit to the whims and wishes of a man unable to accept what he needs in his life or who just can not face that he is sexually deviant fantasies. He is a fantasy whore.. plain and simple.. He will never be more than a closet bottom at best.

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/9/2008 5:07:57 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		So true. 

He only hinted at his kinky side for a very long time.  Although I normally consider our first (and only) weekend together to have been rather 'vanilla', when I look back, it wasn't totally.  We met at a convention.  He admitted to having followed me all over the hotel... just watching (Stalking?) and he told me things that he saw me doing, so I know that much is true.  When I noticed him staring at me at a party, he instantly ducked his head and 'hid' behind a wall of long curly brown hair.  I approached him in a case of mistaken identity and he begged me not to go.  After that... it was one heck of an unforgettable night!  And yeah, he was always VERY good at making a woman feel good.  The chemistry between us was like fireworks on 4th of July.  (Also analyzing the past, I'd call him a 'switch.')  The next day, he carried my luggage and followed me everywhere like a little puppy.  When I pulled out my flogger for a costume, his eyes twinkled and his chest heaved.  At the time, I noticed it, swatted him with it and he blushed and stepped aside telling me to quit it.  (We were in a room full of people.) I let it drop.

Later, during our many correspondences... I mentioned that I wanted to drag him around a convention 1/2 dressed on a chain and he crooned about how I had no idea how much he would enjoy that... and sent me links to CFnm sites. 

Now that he knows I've 'come out of the closet',  he has been pulling out all the stops and uses full fledged protocol when he wants something.  Sadly, I have always noticed that when he wanted something, he always laid it on to thick.  Like when he wanted a costume made for a convention, he went totally overboard with the flattery.  Considering that I now know what he 'does on the side' it makes me all the more suspicious of him just telling me what he thinks I want to hear. 

It is quite possible that he is simply as much of an attention whore as I am.  He stroked my ego.  I returned the favor.  We shared a fantasy that spanned more than a decade.  BTW - for those who think that a 'net only' relationship isn't 'real' - You've just never had one. 

AND Akasha is, again, totally correct.  This crazy story of mine is NOT to confuse subs into thinking they need to be bratty.  I would not put up with this type of behavior with anyone else.  He and I connected on a very physcial (chemistry / lust) level  first.  The push and pull came later on as part of our flirtatiouse relationship.  He has always been just as snide as I am, and has a keen wit that I dearly loved.  I even encouraged his 'bratty' side along the way by laughing at his bad behavior.  He had so many things on the 'possitive' side of the scale, that I put up with his crap. 

This story is just me trying to get my head on straight.  I know I have to seperate the head & the heart in this matter.  If I don't build that wall... Next week, I'll be the one swept away like a sad little subby puppy.  And he will finally win 'the game' that we have played so long.  I can't let him win.  I need my little support group here to help me stay strong and not act like a quivering school girl when those sparkling blue eyes fall upon me again. 

See?  If he just had BROWN eyes... I could deal with this. 


_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/9/2008 5:21:44 AM   
LadyLou


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Save for the curiosity factor, what would seeing him accomplish?


Just my opinion…


Seeing him is going to open a can of worms, and you said yourself, that you are not prepared to be a “home wrecker”. This ‘greatest sex you’ve ever had’,… the temptation is going to be too much, and  I kind of suspect you know that deep down.


You admit he was inspirational to you during hard times, but *you* got yourself through it, not anyone else; what about your other friends? You don’t ‘owe’ him a meeting because he helped you, maybe the “addict” part of you is using that as a justification and fishing for a reason to go and see him, when every other part of you is screaming ‘this ain‘t such a good idea‘?


He was a friend during a hard time, even deceitful people can be good natured and caring, things are rarely clear cut - BUT, he has since been playing games, lying, got married and had a family, and who knows what else. That phase of your relationship is now null and void. I get that you feel you have been less than a friend to him at times, so fine, be a friend, and be there as a friend in the same way you have been for each other for 15+ years - online. And when I say friend, I mean purely platonic (by the by, would this man still be such a good friend if everything was purely platonic?). You have to accept this man for what he is, and from what you say, that would never gel with you as a person. You also have to accept the situation for what it is.


The fact he got married and had a child whilst he has known you should tell you something. I hate to be harsh here, but if you were ever anything more than an online friend with kinky benefits, (or a potential punter for his gigolo business - don‘t rule this out) he would of made more of an effort 15 years ago. He chose a wife, and cared enough for her to have a child with her. The fact he didn’t feel it prudent enough to inform you he was married and had a child until you pushed, says to me that you were either not important enough to him to tell, and everything is coming from your side/you‘re projecting onto him, which he is taking full advantage of. Or, he deliberately chose to deceive you - either way, it ain‘t good. I don’t know the situation, so I could be off base, but this what I am reading from your words of his actions.


After all this time, you don’t really know who this man is. After 15+ years, you should do.


Take care of yourself, and of those in your life who show you more respect.


(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/9/2008 6:03:04 AM   
LadyLou


Posts: 110
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

And yeah, he was always VERY good at making a woman feel good.  The chemistry between us was like fireworks on 4th of July.



It’s good you recognise this.


The man has made a career out of making women feel emotionally and physically good. A professional manipulator if you will. For a hetero man to be earning money from it, means he must be damn spectacular at it. The way he works will differ from woman to woman, as he will be figuring out what makes her tick, and he will adjust himself accordingly.


It’s probably best for your own heart that you never lose site of this fact.

< Message edited by LadyLou -- 10/9/2008 6:05:11 AM >

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/10/2008 7:14:30 PM   
SnowRanger


Posts: 503
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Sinsinnati
Status: offline 		Hello All,
Perhaps this "habit" of his is a desire to compartmentalize his D/s self from the rest of his life.  This is something I am struggling with so I thought I'd mention it. 

In any case,  I say do the meet.  Either outcome has got to be less dreadful than the current state of affairs between you.

Respectfully,
Mike
SnowRanger


_____________________________

You can't help where you were born; and, you may not have much to say about where you die; but, you can and you should try to pass the days in between as a good man.
Anton Myrer Once an Eagle

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/10/2008 8:16:43 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		Guy sounds like a creep and a half.  I'd block his emails, forget letting him come anywhere near me.  Yeesh.

Just goes to show you--most men are so absolutely wretched in bed that a man who can make a woman come can quite literally get away with murder.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/11/2008 2:15:55 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		i wouldn't bother with him.  first off, trying to push you into a meeting sounds like topping from the bottom.   secondly, you can't trust him.  cut the ties and walk away, there's better out there.
PM

_____________________________

That which does not kill me, better run pretty damn fast

I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!




(in reply to tweedydaddy)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/16/2008 4:52:33 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Just an update, I went out with my New Yorker last night.  I'm glad that I did.  We settled a lot of issues and miscommunications. 

First of all, he is not, nor ever has been a gigolo.  I believe that to be true.  I do believe that everything he has told me is basically the truth, but I still think he 'hides' or at least 'sidesteps' things.  He answered every question that I had for him and basically teased me, "Is there anything else that you were wrong about?"  and "What else have I done that made you angry?"   It really helped me to clear up some of these issues.

Secondly, he'd make a terrible sub.  He's a touch to bossy and doesn't enjoy pain.  Although, he DOES make lovely sounds when I pinch his nipples.  *evil giggles* 

He also cut off all his long beautiful hair even though he knew how much I liked it and how angry I got the last time he cut it to shoulder length.  Now it's all gone.  He said he gave the hair to "Locks for Love" or one of those type charities.... just to get a free haircut.  Again, he teased that I cut mine so he cut his.  I had promised NOT to have my hair cut until he could do it for me, but after waiting for him to visit for TWO YEARS - I got tired of it being 'straggly' and had it cut.  He laughed that he probably would have been arrested if he had tried to bring his shears on the airplane anyway.

The long and short of it is that I told him that I just couldn't 'open up and love him' anymore.  That part of my 'self help program' that HE started me on included taking care of myself.  That means that I couldn't put all my hopes and dreams into him anymore.  No more waiting on him to come swooping in like that knight on a white charger to rescue me from my dreary life.  If I want a better life, I have to build it for myself.... and that included building that 'wall' between us.  In order to protect myself, I have to keep him away from my heart.  I let him hurt me to many times.  Even if he never meant to, he did.  If I had not made myself so vulnerable to him, he would have never been able to hurt me that way... by design or by accident. 

He is not my sub.  He is not my knight in shining armor.  He is still my friend.




_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to PanthersMom)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/16/2008 6:56:23 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Brava

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/16/2008 7:03:05 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Two of my favourite lines:

"Plenty more fish in the bush"

- and

"No point in flogging a barn door after the dead horse has bolted"


I know they don't help much, but if they make you smile just a bit - good.

peon x

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/17/2008 8:09:33 AM   
flutter17


Posts: 14
Joined: 10/15/2008
Status: offline 		I've been where you now stand. The dilemma tends to drag one all over the emotional map. Even the most powerful interpersonal dynamic offers no insulation from the need to terminate toxic relationships. My own heart tells me it's twice as difficult in the BDSM world.

The thought process ranges from 'Is this *really* worth avoiding the inconvenience of finding a new playmate?? to  'how dare he pollute my joy???'

It may be time for you to do what I had to do in the not-so-distant past. Recent experiences may have you filtering *everything* and  leave you appalled at his casual summation of something that clearly roils your soul. It is just not as important to 'them' as it apparently is/was to you and I. I'm far too familiar with the roller coaster ride you describe.
 
The behavior continued because there were no consequences. He could always return. As much as it tore my soul in half, I've removed that option. There is no coming back. There is nothing - just an eerily quiet universe. I've begun to breathe again and know that I have some decisions to make but at least now *I* am the one making them and I'm not waiting for input.
 
Do what you need to do to keep yourself sane and intact. Grieving will come and go. Some days will be better than others. Move forward.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
   

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Domme Dilemma - 10/18/2008 5:17:15 PM   
TexasMaam


Posts: 1467
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		You're letting him spend time with you because you happen to be within a half day's drive of a business trip he already has planned??????

Egads, woman!  Tell him you're busy that weekend but if he wants to fly out and see you 4 weeks later, you're free.

I doubt he'd make the effort.  How valuable does that make you to him?

THAT SAID:  My best girlfriend used to tear Me a new one every time I boo hoo'd over an elusive rover. 

She'd always ask:  "Hey, you got yours, didn't you?" meaning, of course, that I'd had my orgasmic fun, too, it's not as though he fucked me over and ran, I was as much the fuckER as the fuckEE. 

In other words:  if you're going with the intention to use and let use, examine the very real health risks, stay safe, keep it in perspective, have fun and kiss his sorry ass goodbye afterwards until your next chance rendezvous.

If you're seeing him in hopes of establishing something more long term, you're only setting yourself up to get gutshot.  

Best of luck,

TexasMaam


_____________________________

~ My opinions are not necessarily those of the management... ~

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 55
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