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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Its a distasteful subject but I thought they were formed under Himmler or Heydrich to implement mass murder as the Wehrmacht advanced.
In the Baltic area many were not even German.

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The situation reported by Germans of the time goes something like this - he promised to solve the problems and he did. No one thought that he was actually serious about his threats to the Jews and others and for a long time nothing really happened on all that - but looking back, it crept up bit by bit so gradually that no one really noticed, and when we did notice it was already too late; none of us could have done anything by then.

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ORIGINAL: JustDarkness
Hating jews was very common then...in the past..then..and in the future propably.

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Even the church blamed jews to be the reason for Jezus his crusification...so the normal man could hate them too. (in 1963 the church made official that the jews are not to blame)

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The Second Vatican Council met at intervals from 1962 to 1965. Pope John XXIII, Angelo Roncalli, had called the council with a view, among many other things, to rectify the anti-Jewish liturgy of the church and to remove the “Christ killer” libel from the Christian literature. The Pope died in 1963 and was succeeded by Paul VI. The council adopted a document which begins with the words, “Nostra aetate”, meaning “In our age”. It goes on to refer to the need for recognition of religions other than Christianity and specifically rejected the “Christ killer” charge.
Then, on April 13, 1986, the present Pope, John Paul II, visited the synagogue in Rome. No other Pope had ever visited a synagogue, except perhaps St. Peter, the first Pope. The Pope addressed the Jewish congregation as “our elder brothers”.
On January 20th, 1991, the church fathers, speaking in the name of all Catholics, issued a Pastoral Letter commemorating the 25th anniversary of “Nostra aetate”. This goes to great lengths to condemn all forms of hatred of the Jewish people, and seeks to dismantle the innumerable canards which Catholics and other Christians have used for so long to discredit and defame us (If you want to read the whole Pastoral Letter, go to any library and get my book The Jew in Christian Theology. It is reprinted on pages 277-280).

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I realise you're not trying to trumpet antisemitism (well, I hope so anyway, and I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt), but I find posts like yours immensely unsettling, probably because of the apparent ease  with which you make these kinds of statements without taking a moral position against them.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Please don't patronise me - a few members of my family survived the death camps, which is why I have the pleasure of conversing here with you today. What is surprising to me is that you are able to make the kind of deadpan observations you have made above without taking any kind of stance, as if you tacitely approved of them.

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ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

please don't judge me when I state facts.
I don't invent them.

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ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

I posted those points to show how the world looks at Jews (possible reason brought up by science).
The theory (about why jews are hated) are widely spread.
You never asked yourself why there was such hatred against jews? I do.. as I live near a deportation railroad from WW2.
So over the years I read a lott about such things. Science does research on subjects like "why do people hate jews"
The list I posted are a few of the ideas they have that can cause that hatred.
An other thing that causes the hatred..is that the church..untill late in the last century..always showed the jews as the cause of Jesus his dead.
BIt weird when lots of graves are marked with I.N.R.I. (Jesus of nazareth King of Jews).

I understand because of your relatives it is a touchy subject. But it doesn't change the fact that there are reasons why people hate jews....which might explain why hardly anyone helped to stop the deportation of jews.
That was the reason I posted these things.

So...it was not a single post to shock. It was meant to show that their might be ra eason why Hitler could do it..with out getting problems.

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Because Hitler's name has been vilified by history and everyone told us he was bad and representative of all the bad things in the world, has there actually been a study on the man, I mean everyone is remembered for the bad things, but surely he must have done something right, else how did he hold power for so long.

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ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Because Hitler's name has been vilified by history and everyone told us he was bad and representative of all the bad things in the world, has there actually been a study on the man, I mean everyone is remembered for the bad things, but surely he must have done something right, else how did he hold power for so long.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

please don't judge me when I state facts.
I don't invent them.

Which facts? Perhaps this is where the misunderstanding occurred, for I saw no facts in your post.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hitler managed to fulfil his promise to bring Germany back into the world as a first rate nation - it made it more difficult for opponents to then criticise him.

Can I ask you, LadyE... what are the standards for a 'first rate nation'? Because from where I stand, Hitler made Germany into a pariah nation: certainly, his promises of an economic upturn didn't materialise.

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it is equally beyond doubt this was a man capable of great charm, charismatic and credible, a man whose strategic thinking was beyond surpass and who lets not forget, almost got away with it too.

I beg to disagree... He got away with it because of brutal violence, generalised worldwide antisemitism, and public apathy (and not just in Germany either).

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No one thought that he was actually serious about his threats to the Jews and others and for a long time nothing really happened on all that - but looking back, it crept up bit by bit so gradually that no one really noticed, and when we did notice it was already too late; none of us could have done anything by then.

Rather than not notice the persecution of the Jews, I'd say people had their head in the sand, or actually thought the Jews had it coming and so they didn't act accordingly. But people, and countries, noticed, way before it was too late [>:] .