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Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:06:08 PM   
Aneirin


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Sexism, as defined by the Merriam-Webster  Online dictionary ;

1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex ; especially : discrimination against women

2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

My interest in sexism is based on  number 1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex.

The sex we are, our gender we have no control over, but what exactly is the difference between the sexes aside from biological, are we that different ? Different thought patterns you might say, but then a woman brought up by and around women will be different, she has had a female upbringing. But there are 'tom boys' and women not brought up around women, their thought pattern might be different, and has been different in some cases. The same with men, a man brought up by women and around women might very well be different from other males, so our difference is upbringing and biology, nothing more.

So aside from biology and upbringing, are we that different, male and female is human, both sexes are human, so it stands that if a human is to be able to do something, then that means either sex.

In the Western world, we have laws against discrimination because of gender, and quite rightly so, but sexism, or discrimination based upon gender still exists, bold as brass in the society we live. If it is not female employees getting paid less for the same job, it is discrimination in other ways. So laws we have, but in reality, are they toothless laws ?

My recent interest in this has come about by myself wishing to learn to dance, but have so far been excluded from classes due to my gender, not because males cannot dance, but because the majority who are females are not happy having a male in the class, something about, they feeling vulnerable as it is doing something they are not used to, and some with poor body image, others saying historically, males don't dance, which is complete bollocks as I know the history of my chosen dance form, the historian history, not the goddess babble made to suit, I know that too, but I er on the side of intellect, not fantasy. So, the women who dance feel insecure about themselves, so deem to exclude males, well, I wonder how they would feel if they were the only one of their gender in with lots of the opposite gender, body image does not even come into it.

Some might say the experiences I have had are not sexism in action, but from my point of view, it sure feels like it, and there is nothing I can do about it. Laws it seems only seem to exist as something to write on paper and the not involved to babble about.







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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:10:39 PM   
Musicmystery


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Sexism? On a BDSM site?

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:12:18 PM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sexism? On a BDSM site?


Imagine that....im shocked....shocked, i say.

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:14:26 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin



So... you're pissed off because you can't join an all-female dance class?

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:15:59 PM   
MadAxeman


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Yea well, don't worry your pretty lil head about it sweetie and get me a beer.

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:16:53 PM   
kittinSol


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Would you like a packet of pork scratchings with that?

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:17:43 PM   
persephonee


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is that like pork rinds? or more like funyuns??

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:20:08 PM   
kittinSol


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pork scratchings . Bleurgh  .

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:20:31 PM   
Raechard


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White males can't dance that is a proven fact there is a film about it with that one from blade and the white guy who's name always escapes me because he is an unmemorable actor.

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:25:06 PM   
MadAxeman


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Ok, seriously. I used to coordinate a community center. One of the groups was a mums and toddlers group which held coffee mornings which allowed single/house dads in too.
But twice a month when they had their aerobics class, they were all fem, the windows were curtained and the doors locked. I did ask their teacher what the score was. Apart from the obvious ogling from men, they were far more comfortable becoming sweaty or cracking a fart during a strenuous routine without men. Some days, they put the lycra on, the music on, then pulled out boxes of wine.
Upbringing is no guarantee of attitude or outlook. Brothers and sisters from the same environment can be far less or more comfortable within different situations 

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:27:25 PM   
kittinSol


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Right, I mean there's no need to come across all Simonedebeauvoirish just because of that. Aneirin, find another class, and Bob's your uncle :-) .

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:34:42 PM   
MadAxeman


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His uncle Bob is already in the class. It's weird down west.

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:36:16 PM   
kittinSol


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Fred and Rosemary weird ?

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:51:08 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Right, I mean there's no need to come across all Simonedebeauvoirish just because of that. Aneirin, find another class, and Bob's your uncle :-) .


There isn't any, every teacher I have approached has ignored me, except one, a confirmed feminist, with academic qualifications in feminist subjects, her class I went to, but now she has moved away. Interestingly this last teacher has suggested I continue with this dance form, as in her comments, I do move better than most males who have come to this discipline, despite the fact that I am a noob.

Four classes in my area, and everyone of them has not been helpful, some just ignore me, others cite the usual crap that men are just there to ogle.


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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:54:44 PM   
MadAxeman


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It's the same everywhere Aneirin. If you have a fem friend, offer to pay for you both to attend a couples dance class.

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 3:55:29 PM   
Raechard


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I'm a producer/scriptwriter Aneirin and your story intrigues me: can we make a film and call it "Billy Elliot no dance mates?"

get your people to phone my people's people.

 
"Billy no dance mates Elliot"?

< Message edited by Raechard -- 10/10/2008 4:00:30 PM >


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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 4:01:42 PM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Some might say the experiences I have had are not sexism in action, but from my point of view, it sure feels like it, and there is nothing I can do about it.


I don't mean to be unsympathetic to your situation, but this is something that women have been dealing with for a long, long time.  "Men's clubs" of one sort or another have been around forever.  Lodges, athletic clubs, etc. - places where men do manly stuff and women are not allowed.  It's gotten better in recent years because business was done in many of these venues and the courts decided that it was wrong to bar women from these business opportunities.  There are still many venues that are men only, because the men feel inhibited/uncomfortable when women are around in certain settings.  Surely women should also be allowed their women-only spaces. 

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 4:13:38 PM   
Aneirin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Some might say the experiences I have had are not sexism in action, but from my point of view, it sure feels like it, and there is nothing I can do about it.


I don't mean to be unsympathetic to your situation, but this is something that women have been dealing with for a long, long time.  "Men's clubs" of one sort or another have been around forever.  Lodges, athletic clubs, etc. - places where men do manly stuff and women are not allowed.  It's gotten better in recent years because business was done in many of these venues and the courts decided that it was wrong to bar women from these business opportunities.  There are still many venues that are men only, because the men feel inhibited/uncomfortable when women are around in certain settings.  Surely women should also be allowed their women-only spaces. 


Two wrongs never make a right. What was imbalance in one direction can become imbalance in the other direction and so the pendulum swings and the sexes will be kept apart. My belief is, there is nothing aside from the biological that I can do better than a woman, and for a man to feel uncomfortable with women around, then is that not unmanly.

The history of the dance form and it's country or origin, it is a social dance performed by both male and female, it is only the west that has made it a female only pursuit, though in the US, there are many male dancers, the problems I am experiencing are largely unheard of there, from what I hear from those I speak to online. A uk problem perhaps, we espouse equality, but we do not practice it, or perhaps only selectively practice it.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 4:20:24 PM   
kittinSol


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I understand your predicament and your frustration, but like Mme Gigs said, women need a little space of their own once in a while to chill out and kick back away from the otherwise omnipresent male of the specie (no offense meant). Have you considered creating your own dance club?

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RE: Sexism ? - 10/10/2008 4:24:48 PM   
LadyEllen


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Tell you what Aneirin - I'll come on down (in the Jag) and apply for the class. If I get in (and I would) it would seriously undermine their arguments at least.

But I'm not doing the class. All that jigging about? Seems a bit girly to me

E


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