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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 8:22:29 AM

MsAuthoritarian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

If I'm anti-something, aren't my theories about why people subscribe to it suspect? Kinda like atheists' theories about why people are religious or homophobes' theories about why people are gay. If I come from an "anti" point of view, my theories are going to reflect my biases, not the believers' reality.

Unless your bias is a result of the belivers reality.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 8:25:53 AM

MsAuthoritarian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

what is wrong with someone wanting to be worshipped like a god and someone willing to do the worshipping?

When that is all there is to it then I agree; however, that is not always the case and that is where I draw the line with my tolerance. We do not have to tolerate everything people do or say simply because we are alternative ourselves.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 8:33:04 AM

LadyHibiscus

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If someone wants to worship me once they know me, fine. I have many fine qualities.

Those qualities have little to do with my gender.

I am all for everyone pursuing their own happiness, but yes, I do feel that there are superior individuals, not genders, not racial categories, not religious practitioners.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 1:10:10 PM

MasterFireMaam

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I feel that all supremacists thinking is rooted in their own fears about self worth, which is usually wrapped up in their own self identity. I mean, we all know kids who laugh and pick on others because they don't want to be laughed at or picked on. Many 'adults' never get beyond the high school maturity levels.

You also have to remember, most of what happens online is role play. Humiliation is a huge kink. I've seen dehumanizing relationships work well (although not many). I've seen male or female as supreme authority work well. I've never seen an OWK type relationship work well. By work well, I mean work long term.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 1:32:15 PM

DesFIP

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John, no argument, I just meant to show that not everybody keeps it at the level of their own relationships where it belongs.

Stella, pull up a chair. I'll share the popcorn.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 5:18:26 PM

MmeGigs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsAuthoritarian

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
If I'm anti-something, aren't my theories about why people subscribe to it suspect? Kinda like atheists' theories about why people are religious or homophobes' theories about why people are gay. If I come from an "anti" point of view, my theories are going to reflect my biases, not the believers' reality.

Unless your bias is a result of the belivers reality.

I don't think yours is. I don't think it reflects the way that folks for whom this is part of who they are process this stuff. You've said yourself that you think negatively of this kink. You feel these folks have problems - that they're "missing out". Isn't that a reflection of your own preferences and beliefs? If this is what they want and they've found a way to live it out that is fulfilling to them, what are they missing out on?

I'm an anti-supremacist. I don't believe that some characteristic over which the posessor had no control can make them supreme or superior or any other kind of superlative. My rejection of supremacy goes beyond that - I don't get giddy over titles or celebrity status and I'm rather disdainful of those who do. I'm rather icked out by femsupremacist online malesubs who approach me - it nearly always feels really objectifying and pretty danged unattractive.

On the other paw, my hubby is a femsupremacist. His feelings about femsupremacy don't come from any of the places you mention - he's a secure, confident, happy guy who doesn't make excuses or avoid responsibility. He believes that men were put on earth to make women happy. That is the core of his femsupremacist belief system. I'm sure that this is an extension of the warm and fuzzy feeling he personally gets from making women happy, whether it's me, his mom, his sister, my daughter, the dispatcher at work, his play-partners - but it's nonetheless something he believes sincerely. There are certainly specific women he feels aren't worthy, but the fact that some are unworthy doesn't seem to change his basic belief. He feels that I am the most worthy, and that certainly works for me, in fact I feel damned lucky to be the most supreme among women to him.

I know some folks - both male and female - who are female- or male-supremacists. Some are subsituting feelings of group supremacy for feelings of personal inadequacy, but most of them are like my hubby - happy with their core belief, living a content and fulfilling life with it, and feeling no need to press their beliefs on others.

Why do you feel the need to press your beliefs about this on others? Why are you so sure that you've got his all figured out when it's something that you're obviously not into and don't understand?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 5:43:29 PM

MsAuthoritarian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
Why do you feel the need to press your beliefs about this on others?

You have to be joking here. I refuse to believe that you think that stating a negative opinion about something and asking questions means that someone is pressing their beliefs upon others. Seriously now, come on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs
Why are you so sure that you've got his all figured out when it's something that you're obviously not into and don't understand?

Ok another thing I refuse to believe that you actually went there and proceeded to tell me flat out that I "obviously do not understand". As if you know me at all or anything about what I know or don't know. Roflamo

It is one thing to question someone about their beliefs; it is something else entirely to slam them on a personal level. But hey you do crack me up lol Keep up the good work as you are my new favorite person on the boards. I cannot wait to see what other personal slams you attempt to deliver to a perfect stranger. How fun you are :)

~Ms

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 6:17:37 PM

yourMissTress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsAuthoritarian

I find supremacy no matter the type (gender, race, etc.) to be the absolute most pathetic set of beliefs’ I have ever encountered. To ride on the coat tails of some theory of global power based on something that the person is born (male/female, white/black, etc.) rather than having any person power themselves is completely laughable yet very sad.

My theory is that those that subscribe to any type of supremacy are weak, insecure and “need” something to grasp onto to do a few things:

1. To make them feel powerful instead of the reality that they are weak.
2. To justify their desire to be submissive to another.
3. To make them feel more important than they really are.
4. To make themselves feel better about their pathetic existence.
5. To avoid having to take personal responsibility for their choices in life as they were “born” to be X, Y or Z.

The list could really go on and on.

Ms Authoritarian

Some of the same things could be said for those who feel the need to put down others for what they like.

Really, why do you care what other people are into? Why isn't it enough to just not be into it and move on? Why not just accept that people are different?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 6:50:00 PM

MsAuthoritarian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
Really, why do you care what other people are into? Why isn't it enough to just not be into it and move on?

Why did you feel need to even ask me such questions? Why could you not accept that I simply do not agree with supremacy and move on yourself instead of wasting the time to ask me silly questions? Come on now, seriously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress
Why not just accept that people are different?

How stating a negative opinion about supremacy morphed into being asked that question is beyond me; however, feel free to make up the answer to it any way you wish as I find it ridiculous.

I hope you have a great night!

I stated my opinion on a subject not a specific person. Why some people appear to be unable to address the topic rather than the person discussing the topic on these boards is rather fascinating to me.

~Ms

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 7:01:23 PM

WestBaySlave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Really, why do you care what other people are into? Why isn't it enough to just not be into it and move on? Why not just accept that people are different?

The freedom to hold a viewpoint comes with the freedom to vehemently disagree with it.

In this case, a supremecist world view - e.g. all women are superior to men or vice versa - is something that effects more than just the person holding it.

Or to put it more plainly, the moment someone writes "I believe all women are inferiors put here to serve ME" in a public place, they've opened themselves to questioning, criticism and disagreement.

If nothing else, it can fuel debate and make people think, which is rarely a bad thing - IMO.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/13/2008 7:09:20 PM

yourMissTress

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Disagreeing with something and putting people down for said thing are two different things...are they not?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 12:46:30 AM

leadership527

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Woah! Hold on tex... If I am correct that we are talking about a generalized philosophy which states all x are better than all y (rather than a specific statement about what goes on between two individuals) then we are discussing a thing which, as WestBaySlave quite accurately points out, puts down roughly 3 BILLION people. Me personally, I'm fine with both putting down the idea and anyone who subscribes to it. Not just this sort of supremacy.... ANY sort based upon such sweeping generalizations. I'm also perfectly willing to vote to enact laws as needed to stop it's spread. Sometimes, your kink is NOT ok and this is one of those times for me. I don't approve of the KKK and I don't approve of this for exactly identical reasons.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 2:33:06 AM

ranja

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MsAuthoritarian, thank you for answering me
and i agree too; if the 'god' starts to expect everybody to worship them, you have a point and maybe a few sessions with a counsillor is called for...as for the worshipper...maybe a doormat type gets away with it much longer without being noticed?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 3:09:12 AM

Lynnxz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

what is wrong with someone wanting to be worshipped like a god and someone willing to do the worshipping? I say let m get on with it
I thought we're all into stuff that is considered out of the norm here are we going to draw lines as to how Dominant and how submissive is still acceptable? And when you have to go to a counsilor?

Obviously, you must go to a counselor when some joe shmoe feels that you are an idiot!

OP, I don't perscribe to the Supremacy belief at all, but really, if it's just part of someones role play, I don't see where it is in your authority to scoff at people, and demand they go see a counselor .

Besides, isn't that a form of Supremacy in itself?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 3:38:31 AM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

I certainly don't find gender based supermacy to be "the norm" at all. Even amongst its enthusiasts (and they can be quite assertive), I believe the term doesn't accurately reflect their meaning. I believe most of them limit their use of the term to their own relationship, and that very few of them actually believe one gender or the other to be "supreme".

At its worst, it's just another example of BDSM playing around the fringes of fantasy portrayed as reality. At its best, it's just an exaggeration.

John

I think this is the crux of it. I don't think these people really believe the world should work this way. I just think it's a particular mindset that works well for them within their bdsm relationship. I see nothing wrong with it, and I don't see it as a form of bigotry in this context.

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 4:03:48 AM

hopelesslyInvo

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i am no believer of ethnic or gender supremacy, however i often enough do encounter people that genuinely make me feel "lesser" and perhaps even what is best known as envious, though the feeling seems too complex to attribute to one word. usually this feeling comes from my perception of appearance or stature and little else, and most often it is women who make me feel such an effect; no doubt it is because i hold them in such high regard. envisioning them in my mind i instantly begin to picture what their life is like, i imagine how they feel, what they like and dislike, what type of person they are, and how they would surely look at me as being inadequate, while fantasizing of how i could somehow be different in a way that would be good enough for them.

now... maybe this line of thinking and how i treat such people isn't what is best described as discrimination, but it is certainly being no less prejudice than any supremacist is guilty of, and i suppose i really do struggle with this form of it.

what i attempt to realize is, that i should instead simply try to appreciate such qualities i see in others when i am so fond of them, rather than let them bother me, and when i can, i like to show my appreciation for them.

being submissive is in my nature, but my submission is a way of showing that appreciation.

< Message edited by hopelesslyInvo -- 10/14/2008 4:22:41 AM >

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 4:09:17 AM

Rover

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

Disagreeing with something and putting people down for said thing are two different things...are they not?

Yeah, who would want to be perceived as putting down hate mongers?

John

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 4:16:32 AM

lobodomslavery

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i think your right Maam. myself i used the idea that women were superior to me as a way to comfort me when i became depressed, it was like oh well im inferior so i guess its not surprising i m sick. but i now realise how superficial that all is. calling women superior is a psychological symptom of an illness. a lot of submissive men, and i include myself in this certainly up to a couple of years ago have psychological problems. thankfully i no longer suffer from this. bottom line is we are all equally vulnerable we are all the same really
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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 4:32:55 AM

catize

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I often wonder how supremacists rationalize the many exceptions to their belief system. Do they put blinders on so they don’t have to acknowledge that the ‘natural way’ isn’t natural for all?

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RE: Supremacy - 10/14/2008 4:55:23 AM

marieToo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

I often wonder how supremacists rationalize the many exceptions to their belief system. Do they put blinders on so they don’t have to acknowledge that the ‘natural way’ isn’t natural for all?

(this is a general comment, not directed at you, even though it was your post that triggered my thought)

I actually see this line of thinking more with bdsmer's in general, than I do specificially with supremacists.

Ya know, "the vanillas" are boring, just don't get it, don't have the depth, the love, the bond . If only they could understand us, they'd have far deeper relationships, better communication, more trust etc etc.

I'd say that whole attitude is the epitome of having blinders on and believing that my/our way is the better way, the natural way to live, and everyone else is merely existing.

I don't really see the supremacists beliefs any differently, or nearly as vocal actually, as I see bdsmer's about their way of life, or their way of thinking. And I've never seen male/female supremacists trying to shove it down anyone else's throat. Yet when you see someone who peacefully believes this way, or at the very least romanticizes it, a lot of people take exception to it. I actually wonder why it's such a hot spot with so many people. It's a personal mindset and/or fantasized belief to found a relationship upon; no different in a base way than any other. Yet people start going apeshit over it, as if someone else's beliefs and desires are going to somehow threaten or affect their own personal world.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/14/2008 4:59:12 AM >

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