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BitaTruble -> RE: Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan 'Infuriates Me' (10/17/2008 10:18:58 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Sanity
Well first of all, the bottom 50% of the people only pay about 3% of the taxes while the top 10% pay upwards of 70% and Obama says he's going to make that "more fair" by taxing the top (people earning over 250,000) even more in order to give tax CREDITS to everyone else.
Like I said before, those numbers are a bit deceptive when you consider over-all tax rates and what people actually pay. If you have 10 people, they all pay 10% on their first $10,000. The rich guy isn't paying any more on that $10,000 than anyone else.
So, those 10 people are all paying the exact same tax rate on the exact same money. When one of those 10 guys earns a million dollars and the other guys are each earning $10,000 each, then yes, he is going to be paying much more because he made much more. We've got a progressive tax system, not a flat tax, and that's the way a progressive tax system works. The thing is, you keep saying that he's going to be taxed and that tax is going to everyone else .. but, in reality, it's also going to him. He gets that same credit on his first $250,000, too. The only thing that's changing is that his rate is going up 3%. If 24% is bad, why isn't 21% just as bad .. the 21% he's been paying all along but no one ever screamed about even though that also got redistributed as tax credits on lower incomes .. including his?
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Not lower taxes... money.
For votes.
Speculation without substantiation. That's your opinion that he's doing that for votes rather than some other reason and I simply disagree with you.
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Vote for me and I'll give you Joe's wallet, assuming Joe is making over 250k.
That's bullshit. If he were paying down the deficit it would be easier to swallow, but he's walking around Joe's neighborhood bragging up how he's going to in his own words "spread the wealth around" if he gets Joe's vote.
It's class warfare, pitting one group of Americans against another for political gain and if you still can't see what's wrong with it I'm sorry but it's too late for me to try to make it any simpler for you, I'm retiring for the evening.
Take care.
I don't think you understand his tax policy or how it works to stimulate the economy.
There's a whole lotta talk that seems to be scaring people. I think the main problem is because we've never heard in simple "Joe the Plumber" talk, why it will work. Okay, my names not Joe, but I have a knack for turning complex ideas into simple talk that even Joe can understand. ::wink, wink:: <--Sarah Palin impersonation .. Okay, Tina Fey, I'm not. ::winks again anyway::
Here's the scare:
You're going to tax me so much that I'll have to lay people off because I can't afford to pay them since I have to give you my money!
Well, here's the deal, Joe. Yes, I'm going to tax you. You're going to have to give up more of that hard earned income. I know, I know. It really sounds like it's going to suck.
Now you have less money. And, yes, it's going to be redistributed to other folks in the form of programs like clean energy technology, retooling old car companies to build hybrids, giving people incentives to go to college, lowering taxes on people who don't hit that $200,000 mark etc. There's a method to the madness though, Joe. Just bear with me a moment.
Someone is going to need to build those new cars and come up with that new technology and that means putting people to work. We need to get people to college though, so they can actually come up with those new ideas that we'll be needing, so they can go through training to build those new cars and all that kind of stuff, so that's an important part of the overall plan. And don't get me wrong, Joe, this is a long term proposition here which is why I need people like you, people who have some of the higher incomes now to help us out here.
Putting people to work means that more people will be able to use your services because they'll be able to pay for them. In addition, that tax break on the folks who aren't reaching that $200,000 mark means they'll be able to use your services, too. Rather than lay people off, you'll have to hire people to fill the demands on you for the new business you're going to get. And, for every new person you hire, I'm going to give you a $3000 tax credit as a thank you for putting someone to work. I'm going to do that for everyone to encourage job growth. I'm also going to offer you other incentives to offset training costs and if you decide to start a new business, I'm going to offer you even more incentives.. all paid for by that new work force paying taxes. Oh, and Joe? All that money you pay out in employee health care benefits .. I'm going to give half of that back to you just because I'm a really nice guy.
Anyway, those new customers are going to increase your bottom-line so that you'll be making even more money .. and yes, you'll still have to pay taxes on that new money. It's a cycle, Joe and the bottom line is, in the end, rich as you are, you're going to be even richer and the nice perk to the whole thing is, the guy that lives next door to you is going to be able to feed his family even if he's not as rich as you. Wanna help even more? Save what you need for your retirement, give to charity if you want but don't forget to spend on yourself, too. Spending helps stimulate the economy and since you'll have some extra dough in your pocket, why not? How cool would that Xbox 360 look on a new big screen HD television? And guess what .. the guy who doesn't make as much as you but got a tax break .. he's going to be able to spend a little, too which will help stimulate the economy even more and even more people will be able to afford your services so, you will have to hire even more people to help you out which means you'll be getting even more $3000 tax credits to offset your costs.
Still sound like things are going to suck?
Spread the wealth around, Joe and, not to be biblical or anything, but it will come back to you three fold.. if not more.
See, here's the thing, Joe. The more people who work, the more services and products they can afford so the more the government collects in taxes to offer even more stuff to everyone including things like new programs to create even more jobs and tax refunds in April. Now, don't get me wrong. We've got a mess to clean up first. We owe a whole lot of money right now and that needs to be paid. But it doesn't need to hurt to pay it. As long as we make steady progress, we'll get it done and instead of our money going to buy cheap knock offs from foreign countries, we'll have great quality people like you, Joe, that will offer services and products at fair prices that people can actually afford to pay.
I'll do my part by getting rid of programs that don't help create jobs or which don't help create people who are capable of filling those jobs by means of higher education, charter schools or other things which are necessary to help repair the current health of our country. And, because folks really need to be healthy to go to work, we're going to work on that health care system too.. but that's fodder for another post. ::wink, wink::
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