RE: Helping negative people

RE: Helping negative people (Full Version)

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MasterFireMaam -> RE: Helping negative people (10/18/2008 5:31:19 PM)
Well, you can use your relationship in order to challenge her. When she doesn't do as you ask, she is saying no to the assignment you originally gave her. Simply keep reassigning the assignment until it gets done...and, until it gets done the dynamic is put on hold. No dynamic unless you get what you want. Of course, this IS a "my way or the highway" approach and you have to be willing to accept that she leaves because she simply does not want to heal. Master Fire

Jeptha -> RE: Helping negative people (10/18/2008 8:05:09 PM)
This has been a really interesting thread. What a challenge. Even the replies that ultimately probably aren't going to prove that practical still have been interesting. I think what you mention, below, is a good idea; quote: ORIGINAL: MysticsLily ...I called the office back and asked for a private session with the therapist as a support person. I used to work in a shelter for homeless adults with mental illnesses, and it always helped when a resident's caseworker would share a "treatment plan" with us. Hopefully the counselor she's seeing could help you figure out how to set appropriate boundaries and provide structure as part of her "support system". A note about "tough love"; I think that whatever the rules are going to be, they have to make sense and fit the person. What I mean is, I've seen some people thrive when given a rather rigid structure to follow, and others not respond because they experienced the same sets of rules as merely condescending and senseless manipulation and demonstrations of power. Firm but compassionate. It sounds easy, but can be trickier than it sounds. One size does not necessarily fit all. Make boundaries that take care of you, too. You probably need a place to vent, as well. It isn't always a picnic living with someone who's habitually extremely negative. I wish I could offer something better for you, but pretty much all I have is best wishes. Good luck to you.

pridedenied -> RE: Helping negative people (10/18/2008 10:10:55 PM)
quote: Nearly everyone deals with hearing someone express negative emotions by arguing against them, and by pointing out the "good side". This is actually counterproductive because it is alienating to the "negative" person. It just confirms to them that they are alone and unheard. Be a better listener. Really take in what she says and see the validity of her perspective rather than trying to "correct" it. Stop arguing against the negativity and let her vent it. Fully. Without saying "but..." The only thing that will probably make her feel less "negative", ironically, is to have her negativity fully, genuinely, clearly, and lovingly HEARD and validated. A good BDSM-y analogy for what's happening now is that she is a leashed dog, and you are yanking impatiently on the leash. That makes most dogs yank back in the other direction, hard. It has the opposite effect of what you want. Give her more slack. quote: ORIGINAL: CuddlyParrotGirl WOW! You are brilliant and I am now officially in love with you! Just kidding but seriously that is so true! I never really thought about it that way but I do tend to be pretty negative and that's generally how people respond. And it always pisses me off! [sm=gaah.gif]It never accomplishes anything and it's a waste of time on both our sides. I wish people in my life would take your outlook on situations like this on.

GoodgirlFind -> RE: Helping negative people (10/19/2008 12:09:13 AM)
Well I would say that sometimes people who stay in bad relationships even though they can leave just loves drama. And (or) being the center of attention. Sometimes they like to put a very heavy weight on other peoples shoulders in their one nag after another. In furtherance, sometimes they are a martyr. And sometimes they are passive aggressive.

Divyacheri -> RE: Helping negative people (10/19/2008 9:24:44 AM)
~fast reply~ Lily This probably has already been said. You cannot change a negative person. Misery loves company and until "j" decides she is ready for change it will never happen for either of you. You could ask her to go to therapy but even if she does she won't get anything from it. Why? Because she sees nothing wrong with her mental state or her behavior. Have you wasted your time? No. You have learned that you cannot change anyone. It is very difficult especially in adults. You have learned that you need to make sure the person that comes into you home next time is at least emotionally healthy, more honest, and even if they have issues are willing to either work through them or be released. You have learned that to have a probationary period first. I am sure you care about "j" but apparently "j' doesn't care about "j". And eventually "j" will bring you both down emotionally, mentally, and spiritually down. Which it sounds like she has. Time to give her a final opportunity to change herself or leave.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Helping negative people (10/19/2008 2:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MysticsLily I've gotten plenty of feedback that I am wasting my time. But I do not believe any human being is a waste of time. People might not be wastes of time, but if she is not ready to be helped, and if you are not in the right place to give her the basic skills to even begin to be helped, the no one CAN be helped at this time. I'm a great helper of people, but that doesn't mean my style and skill levels will work for everyone. That doesn't mean they aren't worth "my time" simply that no matter how much time I give, it isn't the "right time" for any of us. As has been said one must always begin by asking the question "Does this person truly recognize this as something that needs to be changed and have the desire to do so?" Without that, nothing will change. And apparently your getting to know eachother period wasn't thorough enough, so I'd work on that next time around. I will take this opportunity that sometimes empathic types are the WORST helpers because they get so caught up in what people are feeling and reacting, they can't really move beyond that into actual work and progress.

wittman40 -> RE: Helping negative people (10/20/2008 3:07:54 PM)
People see things as they ( the people ) are and NOT as they ( the things ) are. If you want someone to interpret things more positively then they need to change their perspective. Unfortunately an awful lot of people who have a negative world view are actually comfortable in their misery and find it very difficult and threatening to move out of their ( avowedly miserable ) comfort zone. So, in short, you are unlikely to change anyone who is quite invested in being an utter grouch.

Kalista07 -> RE: Helping negative people (10/20/2008 3:27:07 PM)
i'm not sure if this concept has been missed out, or if i've over looked it. However, i do think it's important to remember that negative thinking is and can be very addictive. It can be a perpetual cycle of sickness. Kali

VivaciousSub -> RE: Helping negative people (10/20/2008 4:26:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 i'm not sure if this concept has been missed out, or if i've over looked it. However, i do think it's important to remember that negative thinking is and can be very addictive. It can be a perpetual cycle of sickness. Kali I can speak to this. Long before I was involved in anything D/s, I was dating a guy named Steve. Steve was a good guy - I could see it as clear as the OP can see the worth in her girl. However, Steve had been stuck in a pattern of negative, destructive, detrimental thinking for years and the longer I was with him, the worse it got. I encouraged him to get help, to seek professional advice, and tried to help on my own. Nothing, and I mean nothing, worked. I finally left after 2 years and to this day - 3 years later!! - he still thinks I'm a walking spawn of Cthulu, still stuck in this pattern of "victim-hate shit" as our mutual friends named it. Needless to say, his life is sad and it's a complete waste of a good person. The last straw for me had been that I found out from him directly that he liked thinking that way. Seriously. It brought him attention and satisfaction that in believing the worst of everything, he was always proved right. He'd do anything in his power to stay unhappy. So, OP, I am not holding out a lot of hope for you. It's a huge drain of time, energy and resources if she doesn't want to be helped, and the fact you're insisting so hard on practically dragging her out of it makes me believe she's thoroughly entrenched in this pattern. She is not a waste of time, but helping her probably is.

Jeptha -> RE: Helping negative people (10/20/2008 4:38:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross quote: ORIGINAL: MysticsLily I've gotten plenty of feedback that I am wasting my time. But I do not believe any human being is a waste of time. People might not be wastes of time, but if she is not ready to be helped, and if you are not in the right place to give her the basic skills to even begin to be helped, the no one CAN be helped at this time. I'm a great helper of people, but that doesn't mean my style and skill levels will work for everyone. That doesn't mean they aren't worth "my time" simply that no matter how much time I give, it isn't the "right time" for any of us. As has been said one must always begin by asking the question "Does this person truly recognize this as something that needs to be changed and have the desire to do so?" Without that, nothing will change. And apparently your getting to know eachother period wasn't thorough enough, so I'd work on that next time around. I will take this opportunity that sometimes empathic types are the WORST helpers because they get so caught up in what people are feeling and reacting, they can't really move beyond that into actual work and progress. I agree with what Lucky Albatross said. I, for instance, don't think I'd have the right stuff to take on such a relationship (though I think it's interesting to think about it hypothetically. ) Negativity is one thing. I've been trying to address that in myself and in my relationships. It's amazing how people use complaining as a way to start conversations, to use just one minor example. It's a very deeply ingrained pattern. But chronic depression, I am told, is a horse of a different color. On the other hand, if the OP is already in relationship with this person, and they are under the OP's roof, then she's got to figure out practical ways to deal with it and make those relationships work, for however long that they decide to work, play, live together, and sometimes little tips and techniques can make a difference in terms of getting along on a daily basis.

ranja -> RE: Helping negative people (10/21/2008 3:39:52 AM)
Shit happens to everyone tell her to pull her socks up or take a hike and wash your hands

SayaNereida -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 8:14:53 AM)
quote: I appreciate any feedback and although I know I will get quite a few quit wasting your time responses. Again, I am the bondmaiden of a Celtic Dominant. Honor is part of our moral code and abandoning her would go against that which makes me who I am. Lily Lily, I'm in my 40s, but in my childhood my mother was physically abusive, and to this day I still flinch if someone raises an unexpected hand near me (especially if they are angry). It took years to be 'trained' to duck and it will likely take years more to be untrained, if it ever is untrained. It may be the same with your girl. I suffered, and still do from time to time, from depression, negative thought process, low self esteem and low self worth. Personally I found writing helped. I wrote letters to the person/people I felt contributed to those feelings. I wrote all of my negative feelings about myself, then I made myself look at the source and it down. I wrote the positive things I wanted in my life, then how my negativity was preventing my having those things. Finally, I started writing affirmations (I am a good person, etc) and wrote them as often as I needed to 'hear' them. I found meditation and a daily devotional that I did/do at the beginning of each day and through out the day if I need. I, with the help of those that love me, found things that make me happy and find peace, when those ugly moments return, I do something that makes me happy (hiking, camping, something outdoors because I need to clear my head). I tend to become very solitary when the ugly moments return, I allow myself some time (a day) to wallow there, and then I make myself go out and see people or spend time with family and friends. The thing that you will notice is that everything began with I, the person 'suffering' from this or anything, needs feel they need to change and want to do the work. What can you do as the person that loves them? Continue to love them, help them find the tools that work for them, accept them as they are and accept that they are trying to work their way to a happy/positive place but that it doesn't happen overnight. Most important, be honest enough to tell them that you are drained and need a break. You can say this with love, understanding and compassion and it doesn't make you a bad person. Saya

catize -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 10:11:48 AM)
quote: The last straw for me had been that I found out from him directly that he liked thinking that way. Seriously. It brought him attention and satisfaction that in believing the worst of everything, he was always proved right. He'd do anything in his power to stay unhappy. Just goes to show that insight does not always change the behavior!

Lockit -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 12:10:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: The last straw for me had been that I found out from him directly that he liked thinking that way. Seriously. It brought him attention and satisfaction that in believing the worst of everything, he was always proved right. He'd do anything in his power to stay unhappy. Just goes to show that insight does not always change the behavior! Actually, sometimes this insight helps them manipulate even more and they gain better skills in continuing to be what they seem to want to be, as it does get them what they somehow want. Attention... some sort of empowerment and control and always the ability to cry foul. The enlightened passive aggressive can argue for months, years even and still come out right, victim and justified in their torment. That is why I suggested a time frame in which something changed... because that shit can go on forever. Nothing worse than an enlightened victim... who wishes to remain such... whoa...

HerLord -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 12:38:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Since this reminds me of...welll....me 4 years ago, I have a few things to consider. Your going to continue to be a Mother to this girl and not a Mistress. If your not ok with that, then I don't suggest investing the time. She's not someone who is in a place in her life to be the kind of slave that brings a positive influence to your life. She will be a negative drain on you and that's something Mothers put up with for the sake of children they love. This is something you will have to continue to endure until she decides she wants to change, whenever that may be. Nobody on the Internet is going to be able to give you any concrete tools to fix her. You can't fix her. You can be supportive and be positive and continue to be a positive influence on her life, but unfortunately it will probably come down to her having a powerful epiphany brought on by unknown random catalysts that set her on a path where she puts effort into changing. She will have to become self aware of who is she and what effect her behavior has on the world around her before any change will happen. again, you have said so eloquently what when said by me would sound considerably more brash. OP It has been stated here countless times. You can't help the unwilling. IF you are being drained and not being contirbuted to then you are in a losing scenario. I do not wish to advise that you "dump the girl" but, if you are not getting what you want out of it... then why are you doing it? Also, It may be that this pretense of misery has ingendered a way of being "mothered" the this person is truly seeking. What about this person makes you believe within yourself that being "mothered" is NOT exactly what she is looking for?

HerLord -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 12:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuddlyParrotGirl I find it funny that a lot of y'all are making very, ahem, NEGATIVE comments about "J". You've written about what a terrible, manipulative, and hopeless waste of a person she is, how unlikely you find it that she will ever feel better, etc. According to your own professed beliefs, shouldn't you be punished for such negativity? ;-) I think you should all be assigned to write a list of 10 reasons why MysticsLily may indeed learn to connect better with j and why j may even learn to be happier. two things here... 1. I AM negative. 2. I do not recall anywhere being told I could not be, and as a side not to this... Who the fuck are any of you to tell me to not be? That said. The behaviour expressed has been negative. Without being there to witness any of the positive how COULD any of us be anything but? Oh , and being a bitch deserves being called one. So if you want happy nice nice time, go to Sesame st. This here is for adults who wish to get answers share answers , or in all other ways express them selves in any way the see fit. Providing that it does not interfere with or offend the mods. edited to add Not that any one here would ever dare to call any one else here a bitch

dove967 -> RE: Helping negative people (10/24/2008 3:28:06 PM)
As if you haven't gotten enough good advise.......first, I admire your commitment......there are alot of folks -especially this lifestyle- who would advise letting her go. If we were all dismissed because of our challenges, we would all be very alone. This is an unfortunate person who is in a deeply engrained and instinctive habit of negative thinking. It's a very difficult thing to change. But, one exercise that has helped me alot is to have her write an essay about specific positive things about herself or events that are positive in nature only ! And she must write only about things from the date she met you. No regressing and digging up old corpses! This will be an assignment of obediance only in the beginning,but, what you're trying to do is strengthen her optimistic brain that is sorely out of shape. On a daily basis.....ask her questions like "tell me the best thing that happened to you today" and " tell me the worst thing that happened to you today, and what good things did you learn from it" or give her positive assignments like -do one act of kindness for someone else and describe any good feelings you felt from it. each day. Helping someone change doesn't happen overnight and not without concentrated effort. It's a daily exercise....change little things daily and when you look back, you'll see that positive brain grow. dove

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