RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency

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kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 2:31:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Perceptions do not always equate to racism. Am I racist for saying that? Care to explain what the first sentence means? It's not very clear at all. As for the second... if you ask, then there's probably a problem.

pahunkboy -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 2:39:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In that regard, I hope it takes away the "because I am black" excuse factor. However, my greatest hope is related to my primary reason for voting for him, improved foreign relations. [takes a deep breath..., exhales slowly..., counts to 10...] I sometimes wonder if there are ANY black people on these message boards with the guts to challenge some of the racial and racist BS that passes for commentary on here. I've done my share. Not my job. It's somebody else's turn... Life is too short to use it up trying to disabuse white people of their fantasies of superiority. I would hope that an Obama presidency would take away the "white privilege" factor, but even Dr. King couldn't dream THAT dream! lets turn that around. if I act like "I" should have the parking space, because I am white, wouldt that be an excuse factor? wouldnt it be annoying? the poster simply expressed how she felt. the poster lives in a rural area, in the North. that how rural areas operate. no one gets far by being cocky. people tend to not get to the point. I never know if I am talking to a family member. People marry and change last names. Small towns are- a place where- boldness = rude. and outsiders cant break into the click. what works in a metro does NOT work in a small town. a person can flatter them self all they want... but small town people dont go for that. - no one likes an "you OWWWWWWWWWE me" attitude. if that is not civil- then I guess I am not civil either.

BitaTruble -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 2:39:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In that regard, I hope it takes away the "because I am black" excuse factor. However, my greatest hope is related to my primary reason for voting for him, improved foreign relations. I'm not even sure what is meant by the 'because I'm black' excuse factor. Almost universally and across the board of jobs, I can expect to earn less because I'm a woman. Excuse or fact? When being of a certain race or gender becomes incidental, then we can call something an 'excuse' .. until then, it's going to be a fact and regardless of whether Obama gets elected or whether Hillary had gotten the nomination and gotten elected .. it's not going to change any time soon. Right now, we have a choice to say .. "I'm never voting for a fucking ______" (fill in the blank with race or gender of your choice) .. but one thing is for sure, for the first time we actually have the choice to even say it and that's saying something right there. First step though.. not the last.. not by far.

Kirata -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 2:45:48 PM)
~FR~ Talking about "white people" and "black people" as if stereotypes are facts is racist crap. When some of you non-racists figure that out, racism will have a much better chance of going away. K.

Aneirin -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 3:13:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen One of my hopes for an Obama Presidency is that it has a profound and lasting influence on black youngsters in general - and in particularly on young black lads over here and around the predominantly white world. Its one of those "dirty subjects", and its something that has to be tiptoed around it seems, to even bring up the subject of young black people - predominantly boys - performing poorly in our education system in the UK. From age 5 when they start school, to about age 12, black students here show no significant difference in performance compared to students of the other various ethnic backgrounds we have in our schools. After about age 12, their performance drops very significantly compared to others, and for black boys it drops more spectacularly than for their female counterparts. There are many factors that are taken to occasion this, but they boil down to a sense of disenfranchisement in our society which no interest in or performance in education can overcome for them. This then becomes a vicious cycle that self perpetuates and strengthens over time. I hope that Obama becoming President goes a long way towards saying to these young black students that they can achieve, they can break into the wider society, can accomplish and succeed on their merits just the same as anyone else - and that for this coming generation of black students this vicious cycle will be broken forever. And thereby that our country and countries around the world will start to finally throw off the ridiculous and shameful racist undercurrents that linger, and with our people enabled to participate equitably in the socio-economic life of our nations, we can finally turn the page on disunity for the most bizarre of reasons. E That, was my primary interest when I heard Obama was black. I was hoping, if he got the big seat, it would work wonders for many black people who feel they are not part of the system. Now, if Obama was a black woman, that would be even better, but a man will do for now. The other thing that was of interest to me, was his attitude on foreign relations, like, 'let's get on with the rest of the world, build some bridges, not bomb them to nothingness'. I feel perhaps it would take a descendant of a put down race to understand what it is like to not be one of the elite. Maybe he can do it, if he gets in, good luck to him. I understand regards black students, and they are not of a lower intellect, none I have met are that, but they do suffer a mentality, that their skin colour might hold them back. With some it is a certainty, and they seem not to try because a foregone conclusion. Others who have gone beyond the colour of their skin and are achieving, the ones I know still admit there is a possibility they might be denied due to colour. Sad, but true. I never understood why in summer the white people were hell bent on sun bathing to turn brown, yet what is called black people, many of whom are not black as in the colour wheel seem so put down.

tweedydaddy -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 3:28:42 PM)
I think they should have made Richard Pryor president while they had the chance. I think Obama is even more boring than Mr Burns, sorry Mcain

bipolarber -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 4:00:56 PM)
I think the fact that he's gotten as far as he has, has already had a positive effect. At this point, anything that happens as President will just be gravy. It's high time the US woke up and realized that there are plenty of perfectly VALID reasons to hate someone else, without bringing something a superficial as skin color into it! [&:]

Vendaval -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 4:38:04 PM)
Here is my understanding of that apparent contraction, Aneirin. In many cultures, the people who work outside are more likely to be darker from sun exposure and thus be peasants. White skin on higher caste/class European women was highly desired and women went to great lengths to avoid sun exposure; parosols, hats, gloves, etc. In the later part of the 20th century, having a tan from laying around a pool or lake or beach showed that you had free time and disposable income. So the skin color aesthetic changed. Changes in economics and industrialization led to changes in the expectations of skin color attractiveness in the West. A few hundred years ago being heavy or fat would be a sign of wealth and prosperity. Now it is regarded as a sign of poverty, poor nutrition and laziness. Changes in food supply availability led to changes in expectations of attractive body types in the West. That is a quick summary of some of the aesthetic changes over the past few hundred years in the Western cultures. quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I never understood why in summer the white people were hell bent on sun bathing to turn brown, yet what is called black people, many of whom are not black as in the colour wheel seem so put down.

Aneirin -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 5:05:16 PM)
So that being so, why do people dislike people who are born with a darker skin tone, I cannot see why there is such dislike. Unless of course it is a sad reminant of eugenics education from the past.

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 5:08:32 PM)
Because they're stupid and ignorant.

Blaakmaan -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 5:24:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In that regard, I hope it takes away the "because I am black" excuse factor. However, my greatest hope is related to my primary reason for voting for him, improved foreign relations. [takes a deep breath..., exhales slowly..., counts to 10...] I sometimes wonder if there are ANY black people on these message boards with the guts to challenge some of the racial and racist BS that passes for commentary on here. I've done my share. Not my job. It's somebody else's turn... Life is too short to use it up trying to disabuse white people of their fantasies of superiority. I would hope that an Obama presidency would take away the "white privilege" factor, but even Dr. King couldn't dream THAT dream! lets turn that around. if I act like "I" should have the parking space, because I am white, wouldt that be an excuse factor? wouldnt it be annoying? the poster simply expressed how she felt. the poster lives in a rural area, in the North. that how rural areas operate. no one gets far by being cocky. people tend to not get to the point. I never know if I am talking to a family member. People marry and change last names. Small towns are- a place where- boldness = rude. and outsiders cant break into the click. what works in a metro does NOT work in a small town. a person can flatter them self all they want... but small town people dont go for that. - no one likes an "you OWWWWWWWWWE me" attitude. if that is not civil- then I guess I am not civil either. Well... no offense but... if you acted like you should get the parking space because you are white, you would get your ass kicked, at least where I live. Otherwise, sorry but I need a translation. I don't get it.

slvemike4u -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 5:27:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because they're stupid and ignorant. Come on Kittin,given the depth and intensity of such feelings,it must be more complicated than this.......doesn't it?

LaTigresse -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 5:45:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In that regard, I hope it takes away the "because I am black" excuse factor. However, my greatest hope is related to my primary reason for voting for him, improved foreign relations. [takes a deep breath..., exhales slowly..., counts to 10...] I sometimes wonder if there are ANY black people on these message boards with the guts to challenge some of the racial and racist BS that passes for commentary on here. I've done my share. Not my job. It's somebody else's turn... Life is too short to use it up trying to disabuse white people of their fantasies of superiority. I would hope that an Obama presidency would take away the "white privilege" factor, but even Dr. King couldn't dream THAT dream! Blaakman it is apparent that I worded my comment incorrectly. I will use an example from my own life to explain what I meant. I grew up "poor white trash" in a small town in Iowa where image, what you wore, and who your family was, meant everything. My family had no money, my parents were one of"the town tramps" and "one of the town drunks". There was no school activity like sports that gave me an in, I was shy and very reserved. I also got pregnant months after my 16th birthday and my parents final seperation. I dropped out of school married another drunk/drug addict. My son was born just a few days after my 17th birthday and my daughter when I was 18. I was also the oldest of 6 kids whom I helped raise when my mother went off with her boyfriends. Somewhere along the line, between then and now, I realized that just because I didn't have the ideal life, didn't mean I had to continue on the predicted path. I wasn't going to use the excuse of being born poor white trash, being a dropout teen mother, the wife of an addict/alchoholic, an uneducated welfare recipient. As my children were growing up and they faced challenges, I was constantly in their face that they had a brain and the ability to be whatever they set their mind to. Regardless of divorced parents, some learning disabilities, whatever the challenge was at the moment. I got in their face and pushed them, never allowing them to use any challenge as an excuse. Not ever. I am not going to use the lame "I have friends that are black" THAT, to me, is racist and condescending. I have friends of all sorts, both genders, gay, straight, mixed heritages, mixed families, abuse of various types, and on and on. They are my friends regardless. The thing is, regardless of life challenges we, all of us, really can be whatever we want if we want it badly enough. Hillary Clinton and Condoleezza Rice are both excellent examples that first come to mind as women, among many other women that pushed at gender descrimination. Barack Obama and Ms Rice are both excellent examples of two people overcoming race descrimination. I am sorry, I would give more examples but race and gender are not the first things I think of when I think of people worthy of respect. If my admiration of people that overcome personal challenges and provide role models, make examples of themselves, for others with the same challenges, people that take away that "excuse book" I would never allow my children or myself to use, makes me racist, a bigot, or whatever other label you want to slap on me, then there really is something wrong with this world. I know me, I am definately not racist. No more than I am a man hater just because I identify as a lesbian........even though quite a few men have given me reason to. What I am is a blunt speaking, hard nosed, demanding bitch.....at times. I demand alot of myself, and I demand alot of the people around me. I push them to be their best, regardless of the challenges they face. So, if you, or anyone else took offense at my poorly worded blunt speaking and took it in a way it was not intended.......my deepest appologies. I will not however, stop pushing people to overcome their unique life challenges and fight for their dreams nor will I stop pushing them to dream them.

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:02:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because they're stupid and ignorant. Come on Kittin,given the depth and intensity of such feelings,it must be more complicated than this.......doesn't it? I honestly think that's it, Mike. Perhaps we can add personal insecurity to the mix: pointing the finger at someone else, who looks different, to justify one's fear. So, in that order: ignorance, insecurity, stupidity. It's willful ignorance too. People WANT to remain ignorant. They work at staying insecure. And they thrive for stupidity.

bestbabync -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:14:45 PM)
my biggest hope is that Obama learns on the job damn fast! no matter who wins the presidency, he will play hell in trying to keep all those campaign promises, tax cuts, new health care etc etc etc. where is all that money gonna come from? especially since he does not intend to end the war.

MadRabbit -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:16:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because they're stupid and ignorant. Absolutely! They are so stupid and ignorant that we need affirmative action and ethic based grants and scholorships to make things fair. You can't expect the darkies to be able to meet the same bar we have for white people. Gotta knock some crumbs off the table for them to feed off of while we delude ourselves with "white privilege". The next level of evolution of self delusion is moving from having a superiority complex to feeling guilty for having a superiority complex. Edited to Add : And you can't be fully convinced of your superiority complex without accusing people who don't have that superiority complex of being "racist" by opposing lowered expectactions, because obviously there is something "wrong" with them.

slvemike4u -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:17:04 PM)
My apologiesKittin,I should have been more obvious with my sarcasm.....

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:23:04 PM)
I feel your fear and anger: please direct it at yourself, not at me. Thanks.

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:24:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u My apologiesKittin,I should have been more obvious with my sarcasm..... If you apologise to me once more, I'll have to tweak one of your nipples.

MadRabbit -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/18/2008 6:24:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I feel your fear and anger: please direct it at yourself, not at me. Thanks. I was just agreeing with you and providing support for your idea that there is people in this world who view black people as being "stupid" and "ignornant". You would think you would be a little more grateful for the support.

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