RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency

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LaTigresse -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 6:57:57 AM)
Blaakmann, I appreciate that your personal life will have a huge bearing on how you interpret other's words. Such is the case for all of us. I also do not assume that I can imagine what it is like to identify with one repressed group just because I was put in several others because of my own life experiences. I am sure you are well aware that being black is not the only repressed group gig in town. It is just one of the most obvious and hard fought to exterminate. All I was trying to say is that, each individual, within any repressed group can, with work and determination, overcome that repression. To use that repression, as an excuse for failure, or even worse, for not even trying, is where I take issue. I've done it myself too many times and I've heard it from my own family members. I just have this huge thing about personal responsibility. There are some people, that regardless of the opportunities given, will fall back on an excuse (because I am fat, because I am poor, because I am a woman, because I didn't go to college, because I am black, because I have a learning disability........etc etc etc ) for their lack of personal sucess and the poor choices they make. It allows them to absolve themselves from responsibility for their own failures.

rexrgisformidoni -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 6:58:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan quote: ORIGINAL: rexrgisformidoni quote: ORIGINAL: Blaakmaan quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse In that regard, I hope it takes away the "because I am black" excuse factor. However, my greatest hope is related to my primary reason for voting for him, improved foreign relations. [takes a deep breath..., exhales slowly..., counts to 10...] I sometimes wonder if there are ANY black people on these message boards with the guts to challenge some of the racial and racist BS that passes for commentary on here. I've done my share. Not my job. It's somebody else's turn... Life is too short to use it up trying to disabuse white people of their fantasies of superiority. I would hope that an Obama presidency would take away the "white privilege" factor, but even Dr. King couldn't dream THAT dream! what white "privilege"? What white privilege? Well, wearing a helmet and all, I can see how you might not have noticed it. Kinda hard to see out of that thing, isn't it? If you Google the specific term "white privilege," you'll get about 443,000 hits. So, it's really not that hard to find out something about it, if you really want to know something about it. But it's Sunday, it's early, and I'm feeling good today, so I'll do my part to educate. If you really want an answer to your question, "what white privilege?," follow these links: http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_tol.jsp?id=722 http://mmcisaac.faculty.asu.edu/emc598ge/Unpacking.html I don't feel like arguing with you. I've looked at this topic in the past, and to be honest, its part of the problem, not part of the solution. Of course this is my opinion, so excuse me for not subscribing to victim ideology.

Aneirin -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 6:59:07 AM)
Then a hunt for any laws that still exist that serve to separate, needs to be done, and those laws squashed as not fit for human progress.

pahunkboy -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 7:18:26 AM)
I live in a rural area. 95%-99% white, depending on the county. All politics is local the say. Now that I been here 20 years, I see abit how it works. As I did not go to high school here, I will never ever fit in. My friends are people who came here from elsewhere. When I consider local issues, we have many of them, and a few get nasty. This is how it is- and we do not now have the race formula to add to it, tho the demographics are changing. My point is- you would think a mono race valley would be harmony and bliss. It isnt. In some ways, it is alot easier to deal with issues without this tension. It takes patience and understanding in this world- and we need more of it. On the flip side- if I were a person of color- I would be more closely "watched" here. So in this regard- white privileged was alive and well. (Im not sure why that can of worms is even opened...) I note that when Philly sent up fancy lawyers, to build a hazardous waste incinerator here, the red necks got it stopped. I love red necks. They are not hard to understand. Mind your own business and things are fine. It still is possible to be run out of a town. Even in 2008. "They" can make it so you will never work. The elite go to the country club, and you know how you sign papers explaining confidentiality policy? for get it.

LaTigresse -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 7:48:30 AM)
Very true. Yet, I've also seen quiet perseverance overcome in small town America.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:03:14 AM)
Will never happen. It is part of human behavior to group together based upon similarities. Whether these similarities are due to income, culture, race, or hobbies. Groups produce an "us and them" mentality, which is what the root problem is. I hope that as society goes forward it can be reduced but it will never be eliminated. quote: ORIGINAL: MissSCD My biggest hope for Obama is that he can end racisim in this country once and for all, and bring us together as a nation without fear of each other. Regards, MissSCD

Owner59 -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:20:03 AM)
White privilege exists. Most anyone who had a parent graduate from an Ivy league school,gets into that school automatically.A form of white affirmative action,because it`s mostly Caucasians who`ve gone to Yale and Harvard since their formation. When this kind of favoritism stops and when cons stop trying to suppress voters who are poor and/or black,I`ll be open to talking about affirmative action laws(what few still exist).

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:20:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Yeah there is irony going on but you wouldn't have a clue about it. quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Ah yes, sarcasm... the thing most Americans achieve when they're striving for irony [8D] . Am I missing out on the irony that you're trying to imply there was any irony when, blatantly, there was none whatsoever [:D] ?

county -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:27:30 AM)
If white privilege exists,it is only in ones mind.Everyone in this country has the same opportunity to get ahead and make something of themselves.It is funny to me the white privilege did not stand in the way of either one of the Obamas.There have been plenty of people who struggled to come to this country and made a very nice life for themselves....if they can do it ,why can't people who live here do it ?

Blaakmaan -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:55:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because they're stupid and ignorant. Absolutely! They are so stupid and ignorant that we need affirmative action and ethic based grants and scholorships to make things fair. You can't expect the darkies to be able to meet the same bar we have for white people. Gotta knock some crumbs off the table for them to feed off of while we delude ourselves with "white privilege". The next level of evolution of self delusion is moving from having a superiority complex to feeling guilty for having a superiority complex. Edited to Add : And you can't be fully convinced of your superiority complex without accusing people who don't have that superiority complex of being "racist" by opposing lowered expectactions, because obviously there is something "wrong" with them. Is this supposed to be sarcastic? I gotta know before I call up my homeboys and head over there...

Owner59 -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:57:09 AM)
Exceptions don`t make the rule. I knew eventually that Obama`s success would inspire calls to end AA. End all affirmative action,like the Ivy League policy on admissions and maybe we could argue that the field is level.

Blaakmaan -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:57:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: county If white privilege exists,it is only in ones mind.Everyone in this country has the same opportunity to get ahead and make something of themselves.It is funny to me the white privilege did not stand in the way of either one of the Obamas.There have been plenty of people who struggled to come to this country and made a very nice life for themselves....if they can do it ,why can't people who live here do it ? Now, this is what I call profound thinking. You point to two black people and tell yourself that all is right in America. Good job!

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 8:59:45 AM)
Like I said... stupidity, and willful ignorance [>:] . PS: I hasten to add that the above isn't directed at you, Blaakmaan - but what you replied to corroborated what I said earlier. Just to avoid any confusion :-).

slvemike4u -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 9:22:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Like I said... stupidity, and willful ignorance [>:] . It is quite a fortuitous occurrence when those that disagree with you......work so hard to prove your point,is it not Kittin [8\|]

kittinSol -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 9:28:41 AM)
It's at times like these that you wish you'd be proven wrong.

lronitulstahp -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 9:37:05 AM)
[sm=diethreaddie.gif] ~harriet beecher stowe

pahunkboy -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 9:51:45 AM)
is anyone hiding under 2 screen names? if so, I dont think it is necessary. "privilege" can work both ways. As can discrimination. 2008, we trend into a state of victimhood, that is problematic. How does being a victim get the grass cut, the dishes done, the tasks done. It doesnt. If an oppressed group is wrongly focused, or any person who is dwelling on shortcomings, HOW does this produce a better life? How? The best way to get respect is to be good at what you do. not to be a perpetual victim. victinhood happens... yes feel bad- vent, express emotions, then come up with a plan and set out to put ones life in order. No one is going to come to you and give you a hamburger, a couch, a car, diamonds and furs. It doesnt happen. Think of how you yourself obtain service(s). Do you want to hear an attitude, or do you want your hair cut properly? Excuses or cavity filled? The cashier to ring you up, or tell you the world sucks and you need to do XYZ? Dad used to say- if it came too easy, it wasnt worth having. Life is not like in the movies. A prince does not show up and a big castle with servants, and jewels abound. Tho- what would stop you from building your own? Are the chances better if you try? Anyhow- feel however your want. Be careful with your expectations... the world is a VERY cold place. Sad but true.

Blaakmaan -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 11:26:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Blaakmann, I appreciate that your personal life will have a huge bearing on how you interpret other's words. Such is the case for all of us. I also do not assume that I can imagine what it is like to identify with one repressed group just because I was put in several others because of my own life experiences. I am sure you are well aware that being black is not the only repressed group gig in town. It is just one of the most obvious and hard fought to exterminate. All I was trying to say is that, each individual, within any repressed group can, with work and determination, overcome that repression. To use that repression, as an excuse for failure, or even worse, for not even trying, is where I take issue. I've done it myself too many times and I've heard it from my own family members. I just have this huge thing about personal responsibility. There are some people, that regardless of the opportunities given, will fall back on an excuse (because I am fat, because I am poor, because I am a woman, because I didn't go to college, because I am black, because I have a learning disability........etc etc etc ) for their lack of personal sucess and the poor choices they make. It allows them to absolve themselves from responsibility for their own failures. OK. As often as I have pondered the ramifications of being black in this country, I have NEVER thought of being black as a "repressed group gig." If your membership in a repressed group is a "gig" to you, more power to you. Enjoy your gig! No, offense, but really, I wouldn't think of discussing the dynamics of repression with anybody who thought I was talking about a "repressed group gig." The main thing that concentrating on INDIVIDUALS as opposed to GROUP dynamics does is to allow those who benefit from oppression to believe that the oppressed are oppressed because of some flaw IN THEM. If only those oppressed people would TRY HARDER, THINK DIFFERENTLY or BE MORE RESPONSIBLE (i.e., BE MORE LIKE US) everything would be ok. So, the fault likes with the oppressed rather than the oppressor and the oppression. Neat trick. So, the native Americans, for example, suffer from all of their various deprivations because of some character flaw IN THEM, and not because of the oppression VISITED UPON them? Is that right? And women suffer their disadvantages, as a group, because THEY JUST DON'T TRY AS HARD as men, as a group? Wow, that IS a good trick! I trust that you will pardon me if I choose not to drink that particular Kool-Aid. Having said all that, it's a beautiful October day. The sun is shining. There's a wonderful fall nip in the air. So, I will take my leave and allow white superiority to resume its rightful place upon the throne, undisturbed...

slvemike4u -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 11:38:39 AM)
[sm=agree.gif] [sm=applause.gif][sm=line.gif]Great Post Blaakmaan.....

LaTigresse -> RE: one of my hopes for an Obama Presidency (10/19/2008 11:55:01 AM)
Okay, it is obvious that regardless of what I say you are going to try and make being black and part of that "opressed group" somehow more special, more horrible, or more deserving or whatever it is you feel...... Personally, I feel that that attitude only contributes to the problem. However, it is obvious I am not black therefor I will never understand it, in your eyes. I've never experienced that specific opression so I cannot authenically identify, I understand that. I am not denigrating the value of identifying with a group, only that to do so, to make excuses for personal failings that are possible to overcome, is a cop out IN MY EYES. That was my initial intent and I will not applogise for believing individuals can overcome huge obstacles others with small minds put in their path. No more, no less. I am a humanist, seeing value in human beings, not gender, race, or sexuality. If you want to continue to debate issues of race you are going to have to do it with someone that sees ethnic heritage and diversity, as a hindrance rather than the wonderful thing I believe it to be.

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