RE: Where did the BDSM go? (Full Version)

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marieToo -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 3:03:10 AM)

FR

I haven't noticed a lack of bdsm threads, but I have noticed that there are a lot of really good bdsm threads that die very early.

There is a lot of snark going on and it turns out that by the second or third page of a thread, there's at least 2 people tearing it up in a brutal argument.   A lot of people want to read about the subject matter and really don't want to be bothered with all the fighting.  Yes, you can just skip over posts, but once people are engaged in a personal argument, it seems to taint the whole matter, and the thread tends to die rather quickly.  



SlyStone -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 5:21:00 AM)

quote:

The trolling made it a waste of my time. It’s simply not worth the effort to say anything serious here.



I don't see trolling as the problem, I think it is a general lack of interest in serious discussion. There is nothing the owners of this site or the moderators or you can do about that, they have provided a medium to discuss, the rest is up to the people.


My impression is that what the majority of  people like here, what they really like here, is drama, post something stupid and inflammatory and it will go on for pages and pages, post something intelligent and it die quickly. That would seem to be the nature of the beast and it is not likely to change. And yet every once in a while there is a great thread or there is an amazingly insightful posting that makes me sit back and think, and that is fantastic and that makes it worth while. 

I think one problem is that there is a misconception that so called veteran posters are more knowledgeable and intelligent than newbies. The reality is that being a nameless veteran on a BDSM discussion does not quality one for anything other than a few more paddles in the pursuit of derangement and condemnation, and it is good to remember that paddles and such are awarded for volume, not content.

Having said all that, I really like it here. I go away for months but somehow end up back here checking out the postings. I like that it is an open and free exchange of ideas, I hope it stays that way, I see no reason for change.



missturbation -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 5:44:02 AM)

quote:

Don't we all grow and change?  Isn't there something that one of us learned between the last time we read or posted on a thread regarding the same subject?  Couldn't new people post to that thread giving their opinions and thoughts and have something to say that we haven't considered or experienced before? 
 
Bingo [:D]
 
quote:

Out of interest Misst - what do you see /how do you define a BDSM thread?  What would it be about/include etc? 
 
I'd find this hard to define so ill give some examples of what is out there now i think of as bdsm.
physcologial domination
taken, owned, collared means to you
unique rituals
I will say this being a bdsm site there has to be an element of bdsm in every thread.
 
 
quote:

I haven't noticed a lack of bdsm threads, but I have noticed that there are a lot of really good bdsm threads that die very early.

An angle i didn't cover but yes.
 

 

 



JustDarkness -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 5:59:20 AM)

quote:

My impression is that what the majority of  people like here,


the majority makes the lifestyle for what it is...and if the majority doesn't like it..it will change to the bdsm they like.
agree...forum owners can't do anything about it..unless they  label it...offtopic..



oceanwynds -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 6:10:52 AM)

I spent a few days thinking about this topic. Came to realize that i too tell people to search google when they want to know how to be a witch, for instance. It isn't that i wouldnt help a person, but i am a big believer in research and thinking through things. i like the whole process. If they are sincere and come back, then i am willing to listen to their concerns and questions. i am new to BDSM, but an old timer witch/crone, and i guess i too do things similiar to the ones on this board who been their longer. Even when i first started to read the posts here, it would been more natural to use search.



NuevaVida -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:09:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

However, I am pretty sure the “search” issue was only an example of one of the many symptoms, not the sole cause. 


I agree. It's never bothered me much when someone is told to search, or when someone (such as LA) posts links to old thread. What makes me cringe is the crappy attitude that sometimes comes with it and other responses. I've seen "search" responses that pretty much send the message of, "Why the hell are you bugging all of US with this? Can't you search???" (not word for word). I've also seen serious questions that seem "below" enough to others that they are immediately met with sarcasm and ridicule. These types of replies are for the repliers benefit and do nothing at all to help, educate, or give a reality check to someone new who might be stumbling around here.

LA: Your last sentence comes across to me as though "if someone is shy they shouldn't be in a relationship", and I know you didn't mean that. When I first came here I didn't know about the search function, and if someone had directed me to it with the snarkiness I sometimes see here, I would probably have never started a thread again (not that I have started a lot, anyway, but I was pretty damn shy when I got here).



CruelDesires -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:14:34 AM)

I'm really shy too.


C-D



kyraofMists -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:20:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Come on Lucky, you know there isn’t a noob here that didn’t get a trial by fire with their first posts. 


I am here and when I first started posting I was brand new, in a brand new relationship and I did not get a trial by fire.  Maybe it is because I do not perceive disagreement with being flamed which I have seen many people do or maybe it is because I framed my questions and posts in a manner that didn't offend others.

I am not new anymore, but I didn't start out by getting flamed.

Knight's Kyra



missturbation -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:36:44 AM)

quote:

Maybe it is because I do not perceive disagreement with being flamed which I have seen many people do or maybe it is because I framed my questions and posts in a manner that didn't offend others.


It could be either or neither.
 
There could be something to what the dark has said before about words lost in translation between different cultures. I think that if you use personal experience in your threads you become very open to flames, most people here don't get to personal in their ops. If you are in the minority about something there can be an almost pack like mentality to responses. There is a definite pattern of following the leader,agreeing with the 'big' more experienced posters. There is a lot of judgement on those who want to do something or do things a little out of the norm. Newbies asking questions they have no idea have been asked before and getting their heads bitten off. Being told to search the answers when as someone else said opinions may have changed and the old threads are old hat.
 
These boards have become more about flaming, trolling judging, one up man ship etc than serious discussion when all opinions are valued and listened to.





VivaciousSub -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:47:31 AM)

I haven't stopped posting in replies to stuff, but I can say that my experience on one thread made me very hesitant to ask what I considered a legitimate question regarding BDSM - it had to do with being a "doormat" and while some people had positive perceptions and experiences, I never had. When someone posted that not being a doormat was self-limiting, I asked why - since it was never in my experience that it was a good thing - and it was immediately insinuated that I had zero interest in personal growth and that I somehow wasn't a good submissive because being taken advantage of was a hard limit for me. And this was from someone who is considered a veteran of the boards.

I very much respect others perspectives and experiences, and I was genuinely interested in hearing a well-thought out response. Instead, I got blown off.

Since then, I've not been anywhere near as interested in posting.



missturbation -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:53:31 AM)

quote:

I very much respect others perspectives and experiences, and I was genuinely interested in hearing a well-thought out response. Instead, I got blown off.

Since then, I've not been anywhere near as interested in posting.


Seems to be a recurring statement in this thread. People who have been put off posting by veterans of the board who have shot them down.
Just hope that these veterans and others ho do this are reading this thread and will attempt not to do this in future.



OttersSwim -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 7:59:06 AM)

I've had my trial by fire topic on cheating, and it did not deter me...but then I am a forum slut...[;)]

I find that internet forums tend to move back and forth between the overall tenor being supportive or being snarky.  The forum right now feels to me like it is on the back swing from a snarky period and I hope will get back to that more knit sense of community that I felt on first coming here.  [:)]



GreedyTop -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 8:26:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDesires

I'm really shy too.


C-D


*snortsnicker*



camille65 -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 8:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

I very much respect others perspectives and experiences, and I was genuinely interested in hearing a well-thought out response. Instead, I got blown off.

Since then, I've not been anywhere near as interested in posting.


Seems to be a recurring statement in this thread. People who have been put off posting by veterans of the board who have shot them down.
Just hope that these veterans and others ho do this are reading this thread and will attempt not to do this in future.



I don't think it will change. My own postings have slowed way way down because I feel worn down. There are a lot of topics that I am interested in but there is a knee-jerk reaction from a core of people that I have to wade through each time those topics come up. After awhile..there is really no point in setting myself up for that.

An example being micromanagement. That is a kink of mine, a bent of my personality that truly loves being micromanaged.

However it gets exhausting to battle:
'if you have to be micromanaged then you aren't capable of a relationship much less a bdsm one'
'any one who needs micromanaging has major problems and should step back from this and grow up'

It returns to MKIBTYK, an insistance that someones wants/patterns/needs are simply wrong and therefore dismissed with snark and rudeness.

As to the ones that tend to react this way the most?
They won't change because they have no interest or gain from it. Why would they shift from their circle jerk of disparagement when it is a great source of (often admitted) entertainment?



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 9:08:44 AM)

I don't post nearly as often as I used to, and pretty much avoid some topics now, and I haven't even been here that long for this iteration.

There have been more than a few times that I've been very clear about my own beliefs about BDSM, extreme play, involvement with bottoms, and my "less than pc" approach to WIITWD, I've had my ass toasted and handed back to me chewed to the bone -- not an easy feat, for those who know the size of my ass. I'm not comfortable talking on here about some of the things I practice or believe. I'd be afraid that if anyone met me in person and figured out who I was, they'd run home and call the cops because they'd been wanting for a -while- to turn me in for my 'abusive' nature and unpalatable ideas. These days, I post more in the on the Poll boards than on the Community boards, mostly to protect WIITWD from the folks -inside- the community who might feel compelled to get up in our business.



JustDarkness -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 9:21:03 AM)

quote:

I don't post nearly as often as I used to, and pretty much avoid some topics now


If I really get irritated..either caused by myself or soem one elses behaviour....I leave for a while...or avoid people/topics
It is not good to let opinions get to you....not to much at least.
Sometimes it gets to personal..for some reason...but that happens with humans. (and on all other forums...non lifestyle included).



TreasureKY -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 10:13:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlyStone

... I think it is a general lack of interest in serious discussion.

... My impression is that what the majority of  people like here, what they really like here, is drama, post something stupid and inflammatory and it will go on for pages and pages, post something intelligent and it die quickly.


I strongly agree with this, but believe it is a combination of both the natural ebb and flow of forums and the snarky responses/hijackings that deter serious discussion. 

As for the lack of "BDSM" content, I would suggest that (while privately celebrated) the diversity of beliefs cause people to shy away from posting topics that may appeal to only a small number of readers or possibly stir up dissent and disagreement.  Who wants to post a question about how to make some kink or fantasy into reality, only to have to defend it from everyone who doesn't find it appealing?  If a BDSM thread like that doesn't degrade into judgements or disagreements, it typcially turns into a lovefest of "ooohhh... I volunteer!" or "yummy! I wish I lived closer to you!"  Who wants to read pages and pages of inane flirting?  Serious comments get quickly lost and it's not worth the effort to post because only those who are doing the flirting bother to continue to read the thread.

There is also a strong possibility that people avoid topics where they will be judged.  When it comes to BDSM, not everyone here practices the same things and not everyone has the same level of experience, interest, or participation. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
Come on Lucky, you know there isn’t a noob here that didn’t get a trial by fire with their first posts. 


I am here and when I first started posting I was brand new, in a brand new relationship and I did not get a trial by fire. 


I didn't either.



JustDarkness -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 10:20:02 AM)

Did the topics really change a lott when you look back a year?
I remember us complaining about the same then.



bound4more -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 10:24:07 AM)

I agree with those who've stated their concern over snarky remarks, "know it all" attitudes. I was on this site for quite some time, under a different name when I was newer to BDSM. Oftentimes I posted questions or ideas because I sought the opinions of those who had first hand experience. I wasn't interested in whether a responder thought I was right or wrong or their insinuations that I was a "stupid newbie". All I wanted was their opinion based on their own experience, just sharing what they'd learned with the motive to be helpful. I received alot of helpful advice and support. But gradually the site began to change into a more argumentative, judgemental place. I observed as many intelligent and worthwhile members left, probably disgusted with the argumentativeness, the hijacked threads etc.
 
The attitude of "do a topic search" is something else I don't understand. If I wanted to sit at home researching BDSM or anything else by myself, I wouldn't need to join an interactive site to do so. I joined CM for camaraderie, with a desire to learn and a desire to share what I've learned. I think if people don't want to hear the same questions repeatedly, then simply don't participate in the thread.
 
As far as whether the posts on here are BDSM related, I think they all are. It may not seem that way if every discussion isn't revolving around some form of kink or D/s. But I think it's all relative.



Maya2001 -> RE: Where did the BDSM go? (10/20/2008 10:39:12 AM)

I feel RS and MariaToo made very good points on what has happened here..therefore a large group of people have taken their questions elsewhere where they feel more comfortable posting and where they feel they will get direct answers as well as support without being ridiculed, flamed or having their posts derailed by others. 



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