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RE: Psychological Domination - 10/19/2008 6:19:51 PM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I am into Ds for the psychological aspects and I feel there is far more that can be achieved through psychological domination than through more physical or direct methods.
 
There's a difference?

quote:

I use the psychological makeup of the people I deal with in business or in Ds to gain an advantage, structure and control through methods that incorporate my understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. Of course there is nothing physical in this.

Golly, sounds like you're missing half the fun.

quote:

What is psychological domination to you? Is it used in your relationship? Is it something you enjoy?

All forms of domination are ultimately psychological.  If I put a submissive into an uncomfortable position and require them to stay there, despite the pain, its still ultimately psychological.  At first they attempt to comply willingly... but then the pain kicks in and we're now past the "fun" part.   Now they start to protest, but as it happens I've tied them up so they're physically unable to resist.  The next stage is usually confusion.  Then comes defiance, they'll protest, complain... possibly even threaten.  After that they try evasion... they appologize, beg, bargain or try to seduce their way out.  Finally, after all that comes surrender and acceptance, when they finally realize that they no longer have control over their circumstance and have no choices.  Sometime after that I untie them.  The physical part is merely a tool to reach the mental part... but its all part of the same game.  Same principle applies if there isn't a physical element.  For example, rather than physically tying her up, I refuse to do something she wants... at first it might seem fun, then comes annoyance and confusion... then defiance, then evasion... and finally surrender.  The mental / psychological process is virtually the same.

Also works with employees, business clients, etc.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/19/2008 9:43:55 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
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quote:

I have difficulty believing that a psychologist had to learn from a D/s relationship that action, inactions etc have cause and effect, unless she thought she was different from other humans.


Of course she didn't learn the general concept from me or Ds. She learned that I could recognize things about her that she could not and that I could and would use them for OUR advantage.

I'm sure you know that there are times we "can't see the forest for the trees". Sometimes we are just too close to the situation or issue. I don't usually work via subterfuge. I prefer to be straight up. I can come at things from an odd angle and it not be deceptive.

I hope this clarifies things.

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 10/19/2008 9:45:27 PM >

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/19/2008 9:52:05 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
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quote:


Golly, sounds like you're missing half the fun.


I see your perspective of fun is not quite the same as mine. The physical is the least satisfying part. I, like many, can get sex any day at any time I want it. I want something more exhilarating to me. I want the mental.

I agree that domination is all mental in the end. How and why it is I believe slips some people's grasp. At least my observations seem to support that.

Dolf

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/19/2008 10:07:30 PM   
lunker


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline 		I was compelled to answer by the forecful way you asked the question, even though that's all I have to say.

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/19/2008 11:13:47 PM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		Catize said, I have been analyzing myself for 55 years, I sincerely doubt that anyone could observe me more closely than that or surprise me with an insight I am not already aware of.  Nobody needs to get into my head with subterfuge; I’ll open the door and show them what is inside. 

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing, I’m saying it’s a mutual thing.  The common goal is achieved because it is a common (shared) goal. If it isn’t then it just will not work.


Reply:  I am glad to read the clarification because it makes sense to me.. I didn't understand the first response.  The choice, the mutuality, the invitation to come inside and explore--that appeals to me.  Yes, manipulation without the other's knowledge can be fun, but to me it's more fulfilling and exciting when the other recognizes what's happening and goes along with it.

Here's an example of my version of mental or psychological domination. I know my virtual sub inside-out. I know what will cause her deep pain.  If I beat her nearly senseless in person, I could cause her less pain that what I know I can do mentally from a distance. 

On the rare occasion when I must punish severely, I can still surprise her with the "how" of it...and yes, she could turn off the computer and avoid it. The fact is, she won't. She will obey and suffer horribly.  Knowing that when it is over, she will start fresh with a kiss and comfort.. and all will be forgiven.

That is mental domination in my book. I gain no pleasure from the discipline experience, but from doing the same in play situations I have had huge happiness and thrill.

It's the reason why I don't enjoy play with a casual partner. I can't experience those thrills--of knowing how deep I went into his/her head. 

I watch the sadists at play--and recognize that their understanding of the physical body sometimes allows them to put their play partners into subspace, whether they know them very well or not. When I watch them at work I feel envious, I wish I could do it too, but I cannot.

Becuase I've watched this physical ability so often, I have come to believe that mental/psychological dominance isn't more effective, more desireable. It's just a different way of achieving similiar goals.

(in reply to lunker)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 4:29:59 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I am into Ds for the psychological aspects and I feel there is far more that can be achieved through psychological domination than through more physical or direct methods.



'Psychological domination' is the gateway to the physical. I certainly like to establish who is leading and who is following, and cement that through non-sexual activities, before even thinking of how it's going to play out in the sexual arena.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I use the psychological makeup of the people I deal with in business or in Ds to gain an advantage, structure and control through methods that incorporate my understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. Of course there is nothing physical in this.



It may be wise to err on the side of caution; when your colleagues/staff/boss/customers realise you're manipulating them, they're going to be more than slightly disappointed.

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 10/20/2008 4:30:46 AM >

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 4:57:30 AM   
ExKat


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline 		     Personally, I'm not a fan of the "psychological dominant" brand of doms. After talking to many, they tend to do the types of things "normal dominants" like, they just tend to hold themselves on a higher pedestal because they' ve googled psychology and know a few fancy terms. All human interaction involves manipulation at some level or another, simply putting a name to what most folks do anyways doesn't make one high and mighty. Perhaps I'm just one who prefers straight up, "Submit to me, bitch" rather than "Submit to me, but see how your mind fights my dominance? That's because you were punished too much as a child. Yet, you submit to me anyways, because I have programmed you to do this. I have imprinted your mind with my wishes, yadda yadda yadda... Catholic church, yadda yadda yadda. Antidisestablishmentarianism-see how smart I am, bitch?"

    Yes, I know that submission and dominance is an interaction that undoubtedly contains many, many fancy psychological terms. But, spare me the fucking lecture and just swing the damned flogger.


~Katie, erring on the side of the physical

_____________________________

~*~ The amalgam of Exquemelin and Katie978~*~
In the forums, it'll usually be Katie you're speaking to.
testing
"That's the plan/ Rule the world/ You and me/ Anyday ::wink::"

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 5:20:22 AM   
Rover


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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

An example of mental bondage would be to make a submissive hold onto the chains above her head and to place her feet where you want them while you cane her. The instructions create the bondage not rope or cuffs.

It's harder on the submissive and more satisfying for both of us in the end.


Ok, let's play a game of pin the tail on the mental bondage.  Is it the chain?  Is it her holding the chain?  Is it her feet?  Is it the cane? 
 
Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 5:42:01 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

 Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage. 


 
To add to that thought, if the person is not submissive and has not agreed  to this, no amount of psycho-babble is going to keep them standing there. 


_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 5:43:36 AM   
hardbodysub


Posts: 1654
Joined: 8/7/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I am into Ds for the psychological aspects and I feel there is far more that can be achieved through psychological domination than through more physical or direct methods.

I use the psychological makeup of the people I deal with in business or in Ds to gain an advantage, structure and control through methods that incorporate my understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. Of course there is nothing physical in this.

I also use things like mental bondage to control a slave physically.

What is psychological domination to you? Is it used in your relationship? Is it something you enjoy?


Why not have both...the psychological along with the physical.  Each heightens the other...kinda like Oreos and milk. 


I agree with Aileen. One reinforces the other. Ultimately, it's the psychological that is stronger and more pervasive, but in earlier stages, the physical can be more important.

(in reply to Aileen1968)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:14:47 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:



ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I am into Ds for the psychological aspects and I feel there is far more that can be achieved through psychological domination than through more physical or direct methods.



'Psychological domination' is the gateway to the physical. I certainly like to establish who is leading and who is following, and cement that through non-sexual activities, before even thinking of how it's going to play out in the sexual arena.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I use the psychological makeup of the people I deal with in business or in Ds to gain an advantage, structure and control through methods that incorporate my understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. Of course there is nothing physical in this.



It may be wise to err on the side of caution; when your colleagues/staff/boss/customers realise you're manipulating them, they're going to be more than slightly disappointed.
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I am into Ds for the psychological aspects and I feel there is far more that can be achieved through psychological domination than through more physical or direct methods.



'Psychological domination' is the gateway to the physical. I certainly like to establish who is leading and who is following, and cement that through non-sexual activities, before even thinking of how it's going to play out in the sexual arena.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I use the psychological makeup of the people I deal with in business or in Ds to gain an advantage, structure and control through methods that incorporate my understanding of their strengths and weaknesses. Of course there is nothing physical in this.



It may be wise to err on the side of caution; when your colleagues/staff/boss/customers realise you're manipulating them, they're going to be more than slightly disappointed.


I don't negatively take advantage of those I work with I use my understanding of strength and weaknesses to place them properly within the team. I'm a consultant. I consult in B2B situations. I'm the guy that listens, learns and extracts the pros and cons from any situation for my clients and uses it to help them gain an advantage where and when possible and only if it will not bite them or me in the ass later.

I genuinely appreciate the suggestion to err on the side of caution. I only take risks where all factors are known and I do not take them with an individual's well-being.

Dolf

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:19:12 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExKat

   Personally, I'm not a fan of the "psychological dominant" brand of doms. After talking to many, they tend to do the types of things "normal dominants" like, they just tend to hold themselves on a higher pedestal because they' ve googled psychology and know a few fancy terms. All human interaction involves manipulation at some level or another, simply putting a name to what most folks do anyways doesn't make one high and mighty. Perhaps I'm just one who prefers straight up, "Submit to me, bitch" rather than "Submit to me, but see how your mind fights my dominance? That's because you were punished too much as a child. Yet, you submit to me anyways, because I have programmed you to do this. I have imprinted your mind with my wishes, yadda yadda yadda... Catholic church, yadda yadda yadda. Antidisestablishmentarianism-see how smart I am, bitch?"

  Yes, I know that submission and dominance is an interaction that undoubtedly contains many, many fancy psychological terms. But, spare me the fucking lecture and just swing the damned flogger.


~Katie, erring on the side of the physical


I live in a world outside of normal fantasy and online BS. I don't google my experiences. The examples you put out there would only be believed by fools.

Hateful tones. Moving on.

Dolf

(in reply to ExKat)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:21:41 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

An example of mental bondage would be to make a submissive hold onto the chains above her head and to place her feet where you want them while you cane her. The instructions create the bondage not rope or cuffs.

It's harder on the submissive and more satisfying for both of us in the end.


Ok, let's play a game of pin the tail on the mental bondage.  Is it the chain?  Is it her holding the chain?  Is it her feet?  Is it the cane? 
 
Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage.
 
John


Use of imagination might help your perspective. In my opinion you either "get it" or you don't.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:24:24 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
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quote:

quote:

Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage". But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage.




To add to that thought, if the person is not submissive and has not agreed to this, no amount of psycho-babble is going to keep them standing there.
quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

 Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage. 


 
To add to that thought, if the person is not submissive and has not agreed  to this, no amount of psycho-babble is going to keep them standing there. 



To add to that if I were doing something non-consensual I would be a moron and If the person I work with is not a submissive I would be blind, deaf and dumb.

I'm sure there are new ways of twisting things. Next?



(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:24:51 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

I genuinely appreciate the suggestion to err on the side of caution. I only take risks where all factors are known and I do not take them with an individual's well-being.


I don't wish to be perceived to be picking on you, because this is a common (and comforting) sentiment.  Though woefully untrue.
 
No one can know all of the factors to anything, much less humans.  Can you know that someone has an aneurysm and that the breath play you're about to engage in will be fatal?  Can anyone know that your bottom has been repressing a childhood molestation and the rape play you're about to engage in is going to trip a land mine?  Can anyone know that the clasp you're using in your suspension play is defective and someone is going to get dumped on their head?
 
First, we all take risks... we just decide for ourselves how much risk we're willing to take.  Second, as Tops or Dominants we all take risks with other people's psychological and physical well being.  And third, no one knows all the factors that might impact that risk, so it's impossible to fully and accurately predict how much risk that is. 
 
That's just the truth about WIITWD.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:29:39 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

An example of mental bondage would be to make a submissive hold onto the chains above her head and to place her feet where you want them while you cane her. The instructions create the bondage not rope or cuffs.

It's harder on the submissive and more satisfying for both of us in the end.


Ok, let's play a game of pin the tail on the mental bondage.  Is it the chain?  Is it her holding the chain?  Is it her feet?  Is it the cane? 
 
Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage.
 
John


Use of imagination might help your perspective. In my opinion you either "get it" or you don't.



Why would I need an imagination?  Is this fantasy or make believe?  I've been around the block a few times, and I stand by my statement.  You're effectively reclassifying all of unrestrained impact play as "mental bondage". 
 
If you'd like to present a logical argument to the contrary, I'm all ears.  But to simply wiggle out of it by saying that I don't "get it" just isn't credible.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:33:23 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		No one can know everything. Correct. There is always some level of risk. Agreed. Some are better than others at risk assessment. I have a very good history of not bringing harm to others. This needs to shift from me to the topic. Some people work from emotion, some do not, some work from a few mental notes, some prefer to thoroughly analyze situations before engaging them. Some are able to see things that many others cannot.

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:35:50 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

What is psychological domination to you? Is it used in your relationship? Is it something you enjoy?

"Psychological domination" is redundant.

Domination is all psychological.  Anything else is just topping (or icing, depending on your particular fetish! )


_____________________________



(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:39:54 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

No one can know everything. Correct. There is always some level of risk. Agreed. Some are better than others at risk assessment. I have a very good history of not bringing harm to others. This needs to shift from me to the topic. Some people work from emotion, some do not, some work from a few mental notes, some prefer to thoroughly analyze situations before engaging them. Some are able to see things that many others cannot.


And some are prone to over statement?
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 6:41:16 AM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

An example of mental bondage would be to make a submissive hold onto the chains above her head and to place her feet where you want them while you cane her. The instructions create the bondage not rope or cuffs.

It's harder on the submissive and more satisfying for both of us in the end.


Ok, let's play a game of pin the tail on the mental bondage.  Is it the chain?  Is it her holding the chain?  Is it her feet?  Is it the cane? 
 
Seriously, you've reclassified any impact play that does not include bondage as "mental bondage".  But from where I'm sitting, it's just impact play without bondage.
 
John


Use of imagination might help your perspective. In my opinion you either "get it" or you don't.



Why would I need an imagination?  Is this fantasy or make believe?  I've been around the block a few times, and I stand by my statement.  You're effectively reclassifying all of unrestrained impact play as "mental bondage". 
 
If you'd like to present a logical argument to the contrary, I'm all ears.  But to simply wiggle out of it by saying that I don't "get it" just isn't credible.
 
John


Wiggle? Me? Wrong guy!

Her reaction will be to want to shift, to move from her position. It is my job to keep her there through words, suggestions, lures or whatever it takes to keep her wanting to obey me. Her actions will either please me or disappoint me. She has a choice. I either am successful or I fail. Her decision to not move, to obey, to please is because she has experienced a great desire to do so no matter what comes her way. I must be accurate in my assessments of her abilities (including physical and mental factors) and her desire. This is not something you do with some girl you met at a munch that afternoon of course. And it's easy to tie her up and take away some of her moment by moment decision making. I want her to make that decision every second and have it reinforced on a constant basis that she is mine and she wants to be there and wants to please me.

Edited to add a comma.


< Message edited by DomDolf -- 10/20/2008 6:43:15 AM >

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 40
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