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RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 1:07:46 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsMillgrove
....It's the reason why I don't enjoy play with a casual partner. I can't experience those thrills--of knowing how deep I went into his/her head.

Maybe that's why the idea of casual play hasn't appealed to me much so far, either.
That said, however;
quote:


I watch the sadists at play--and recognize that their understanding of the physical body sometimes allows them to put their play partners into subspace, whether they know them very well or not. When I watch them at work I feel envious, I wish I could do it too, but I cannot.

Becuase I've watched this physical ability so often, I have come to believe that mental/psychological dominance isn't more effective, more desireable. It's just a different way of achieving similiar goals.

That was pretty well put.

Other notes; I like the idea of "suspense!" as a component of psychological play. For instance, with one partner I would make up lots of fanciful scenarios that I would claim to be considering, and then I would occasionally take certain aspects of those things and actually make them happen, so that it was always just possible, or at least imaginable, that I might do all of those other things I'd talked about some day.

Most of the time, whatever makes her rely on her trust in me deepens that trust (~as long as I'm thoughtful and deliberate about it - and live up to my end of the bargain, of course!) This can happen just about anytime I put a blindfold or ropes on her.
But I find that another great opportunity for this is to take her out of familiar surroundings - often without telling her the exact details of what I have planned.
I like going out in the woods, going to adult arcades, trips in the car, etc.
I might feign an air of resignation or concern about what's going to happen and discuss possible signals and safewords, her comfort levels and limits with certain possibilities with her, without giving her complete details, just to give her a sense of anticipation.
At that point I could do anything. I can take her out in the woods and give her a cupcake. It's the anticipation/surprise factor that I like to play with sometimes.

Obviously, this will only work with somebody that I'm bonded with and whom I know pretty well, with whom I've established that level of trust, and who doesn't mind a little silliness mixed in with the seriousness.

The other psychological thing that I like to play with is humiliation. I think it's like dissonance in music; you compose something and try to use some dissonance, create some tension, that, ideally, is resolved at the end.

(in reply to MsMillgrove)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 1:18:39 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fizzgig168

Newbie's gonna jump in the fray here.  Be nice, lol.

It seems to me like a lot of these terms are interchangeable, but it's easy to get hung up on technicalities especially since a lot of the terms we use can be viewed so differently by so many people.

A lot of you have said that you don't think there is domination at all unless it's psychological.  I agree completely.  But I think there are a lot of different levels and I think that's where Dolf was trying to go with this one. 

Anyway, Dolf, to answer the questions you asked:  Psychological domination is... complicated?  To say the least.  A person could write a book on "what it is" and still not cover everything.  Simplest terms, though, I feel like it's when a Dom has really gotten insde a sub's head.  Really, it's the ability to manipulate, which sounds ugly but doesn't always have to be.  I personally wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone who didn't have the ability to get in my head, to know me well enough and be smart enough to manipulate me.  I feel like that's the only way I can really give all of myself, if a Dom is able to take control of my mind just as much as he can take control of my body.

You mentioned "mental bondage" a few times throughout this thread, and disregarding all the semantics that can be argued back and forth, I know what you mean.  I have a sort of love/hate relationship with it.  If I'm tied down then I'm free to struggle and wriggle and try to get away.  I can fight the pain and that makes it somehow easier to handle.  For me, anyway.  But when my Dom doesn't tie me down then all I have keeping me there is him.  I have to force myself to stay put when the only thing I've got is a desire to please him.  I know if he didn't have the kind of mental control I think you're talking about over me, I'd never find the strength, the will power, or really even the desire to keep myself there for him, to do as he says simply because it will please him.  And it's hard! lol.  But in the end there is a much deeper sense of satisfation and joy for both of us.  After all, the best things in life are always the things you really have to work for.






Oh, thank god, someone said this.

I typed out a response this morning then left it unposted because I was going to come back and add to it.  Then it vanished and I didn't feel like re-doing it.

Anyway this was FAR better than what I had written and conveys the same message.

This was a great post.   

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Fizzgig168)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 4:32:06 PM   
Fizzgig168


Posts: 28
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks very much, marie.


_____________________________

"Fall if you must fall. But if you are going to fall, fall hard and fall completely. It is so much better than some suspended animation which can never tell you anything about your life."

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/20/2008 9:38:21 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		You nailed it. Well done.

Dolf

(in reply to Fizzgig168)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 4:44:56 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Everything starts from psychological submission for me.  Without that feeling, nothing that's done feels like more than "going through the motions".  With it, almost everything is a turn-on from the mildest order to the unmentionable. 

Likewise, if I know a Domme feels like a Domme to herself, I'm always happy.  If I think she doesn't, and is only play-acting for my sake, it can't work for me.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 5:09:29 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		I once bottomed at a charity event to raise money.  I was won by some I have known for a very long time so she did know me but she identifies as a heavy bottom and well, I sure don't.  I was so fucking pissed at her for the pain I was going to experience pulling all that hot wax out of my body hair.   only to find out it was hot water and that she pulled a complete mindfuck on me.

Tops most certainly get inside someone's head and there are plenty of dominants who don't as we see daily on these boards.  Talent is talent and there is no replacement but lets get real, it isn't the label that brings the ability.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 9:10:07 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		My god I really REALLY need to slow down when I write!  A woman won the bidding to play with me as  her bottom and she did a wax scene, dripping it all over my hair legs, balls, and ass.  I was swearing up a storm knowing how painful it was going to be getting that god damn wax off.  Then I realized that all the wax was in my mind and that she had only used a tiny bit of wax at the begining to key my mind into what was going on and the rest was a fabulous mind fuck.

English only works if  you, like you know, put all the damn words in as well as place them in some semblance of order.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 9:12:18 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

I once bottomed at a charity event to raise money.  I was won by some I have known for a very long time so she did know me but she identifies as a heavy bottom and well, I sure don't.  I was so fucking pissed at her for the pain I was going to experience pulling all that hot wax out of my body hair.   only to find out it was hot water and that she pulled a complete mindfuck on me.


lol... that was fun to read.
you don't happen to have pictures, not?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 9:59:32 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fizzgig168
Really, it's the ability to manipulate, which sounds ugly but doesn't always have to be. 


Yeah, I actually came to grips with that a long long time ago. Fundamentally, the problem is that if you're the sort of person who "sees into" other people fairly well, then you really don't have any choice but to manipulate. Once you understand that pressing button "a" causes outcome "b", then you're screwed. You either press the button or not, but either way, you've made a choice and affected the outcome.... manipulated the person. Really, once you realize that, the only decision you get to make is to manipulate for good or harm. We have a word for more benign forms of manipulation... we call it, among other things, "influence". My father, long ago, called me "manipulative" and I asked him back, "Really? Am I manipulative or influential?"

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Fizzgig168)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 10:04:26 AM   
Fizzgig168


Posts: 28
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline 		Oh, I like that! lol.  It's a conversation I've had quite a few times with a lot of people.  I myself am very good at reading and understanding people.... and so I can manipulate a LOT of people very easily.  Generally I choose not to use any more "influence" than any other person would... unless I see a chance to do some good.

I'll have to remember that in future conversations.


_____________________________

"Fall if you must fall. But if you are going to fall, fall hard and fall completely. It is so much better than some suspended animation which can never tell you anything about your life."

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 11:56:10 AM   
twistedreality


Posts: 64
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline 		Isn't the point of physical domination to obtain psychological domination? Of course, everyone has something different that speeds them to the psychological state/sub space. A good dominant will discover what that key is and use it to their advantage.

Of course, many stop at the physical, either because they don't consider the path goes further into the dark woods.
A

(in reply to catize)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 5:11:06 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf
What is psychological domination to you? Is it used in your relationship?


If a Domme told me I couldn't watch the Bloomberg channel while I'm trying to go to sleep....she'd simply have to go.

If she canceled my subscription to the Wall Street Journal...well....I'd have to kill her.

(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 8:02:23 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomDolf

An example of mental bondage would be to make a submissive hold onto the chains above her head and to place her feet where you want them while you cane her. The instructions create the bondage not rope or cuffs.

It's harder on the submissive and more satisfying for both of us in the end.


I call that mental bondage, not psychological domination. As far as it goes here; I can tolerate very little in that position, I don't get aroused, and neither of us find it nearly as pleasurable or satisfying as rope.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to DomDolf)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/21/2008 9:53:48 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		Everyone is different. You have to know who you are dealing with.


(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/22/2008 1:03:53 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

If a Domme told me I couldn't watch the Bloomberg channel while I'm trying to go to sleep....she'd simply have to go.

If she canceled my subscription to the Wall Street Journal...well....I'd have to kill her.



that is irritating a person..not domination

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/22/2008 1:04:17 AM >

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/22/2008 8:40:32 AM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fizzgig168

Newbie's gonna jump in the fray here.  Be nice, lol.

It seems to me like a lot of these terms are interchangeable, but it's easy to get hung up on technicalities especially since a lot of the terms we use can be viewed so differently by so many people.

A lot of you have said that you don't think there is domination at all unless it's psychological.  I agree completely.  But I think there are a lot of different levels and I think that's where Dolf was trying to go with this one. 

Anyway, Dolf, to answer the questions you asked:  Psychological domination is... complicated?  To say the least.  A person could write a book on "what it is" and still not cover everything.  Simplest terms, though, I feel like it's when a Dom has really gotten insde a sub's head.  Really, it's the ability to manipulate, which sounds ugly but doesn't always have to be.  I personally wouldn't be able to be in a relationship with someone who didn't have the ability to get in my head, to know me well enough and be smart enough to manipulate me.  I feel like that's the only way I can really give all of myself, if a Dom is able to take control of my mind just as much as he can take control of my body.

You mentioned "mental bondage" a few times throughout this thread, and disregarding all the semantics that can be argued back and forth, I know what you mean.  I have a sort of love/hate relationship with it.  If I'm tied down then I'm free to struggle and wriggle and try to get away.  I can fight the pain and that makes it somehow easier to handle.  For me, anyway.  But when my Dom doesn't tie me down then all I have keeping me there is him.  I have to force myself to stay put when the only thing I've got is a desire to please him.  I know if he didn't have the kind of mental control I think you're talking about over me, I'd never find the strength, the will power, or really even the desire to keep myself there for him, to do as he says simply because it will please him.  And it's hard! lol.  But in the end there is a much deeper sense of satisfation and joy for both of us.  After all, the best things in life are always the things you really have to work for.




agreed :) this is something that is very important to me that i'm working on
there is something extremely satisfying when you DON'T have to be tied up to stay in place, or do whatever
(not saying there's anything wrong with being tied up, cause i love that too, just sayin')

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/22/2008 10:32:48 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RainydayNE
there is something extremely satisfying when you DON'T have to be tied up to stay in place, or do whatever


Let's just say maybe the cold medicine I'm taking is making my brain all confuzzly... and I keep coming back and reading this thread trying to "get it"... but I don't "get it." 

Now I think I get it.  Now how to express it without sounding "better than"... because that's not it.  Okay, I'll give it a shot:  people really play where they HAVE to be tied up or else they would refuse/leave/run about/whatever???  I'm not talking force-play, because that's a hawt thing all on its own.  I'm talking flogging/caning/spanking/whatever.  Really? 

Does it really take more than the word "stay", to make you stay? I mean, you would almost have to be shrink wrapped to a post to not move while restrained.  And most (but certainly not all) bondage can be gotten out of if you want to badly enough.  So why not just "stay"?


Cali


_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to RainydayNE)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Psychological Domination - 10/22/2008 10:43:30 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		You stay because they want you to, yes, but...your natural instinct is to get away from the pain and their words, telling you to stay still and not move while they flog/spank/tickle you is where, for me, the psychological aspect comes in.

I WANT to move, but I don't...it fuckin' hurts!  It is her words and her will holding me in place.

If She tells me to not make a sound on the next set, or count them and thank Her between strokes, even more head trippy for me.  "OMG, this woman is HITTING ME and I am laying here taking it, and thanking Her for it..."

Not for everyone...but it works for me wonderfully.


_____________________________

I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

(in reply to CalifChick)
Profile   Post #: 78
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