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The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:04:58 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

Have been sitting on this thread for a little over a year and even toyed recently about posting it under another name so as to avoid a roasting .. but then I thought nah, whats the point? .. I tend to get roasted whatever I do.

These boards have thousands of visits over the day, with hundreds of posts usually from a hardcore of regular posters. Threads are started for all kinds of reasons and on all kinds of subjects. Yes threads become repetitive, and yes it would be nice if people used the search function a little more often but its a web board - discussion should evolve and repeat or it turns into a library.

One thing that has often been commented on though, is the flaming of the Kinkster rather than discussion of Kink. I wonder often why this occurs, and frequently do not post a thread simply because I know the topic of discussion will lead to me having to defend myself or abandon the thread altogether. For example ... way back in the spring I posted a thread asking other Kinsters on their thoughts about procuring - this turned into 200+ posts of criticism and flaming about my relationship (I think fewer that 15 replies actually even attempted to answer the questions I posed - and many of those still contained barbed comments about me). I know a great deal of other posters who have put forward a topic for discussion and regretted it because of the fall out they have suffered.

There are threads where the OP wants feedback for themselves "What should I do? ... can I have some advice?" .. these people want personal feedback about their situation and so are setting out to garner replies directed at them. These threads which put forward a discussion, ask searching questions and use their own thoughts/feelings/attiutudes as a model for how the thread might unravel - are not inviting a discussion about the Kinkster writing them, but about the kinksters reading them. Why then are the threads that ask about other Kinksters views and ideas so often reflected back at the OP rather than at the subsequent posters?

Why do you think discussion opened so often focuses on the Kinkster, rather than the Kink?

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

Post #: 1

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:27:41 AM

subintrainingnc

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2008
Status: offline

i totally agree, which is why i have yet to post any of the many questions i have had through the months. i have been scared of the fallout . But i think since this is an open forum, you will always get alot of both sides, so just take what you like and leave the rest.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 2

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:35:04 AM

pdv99

Posts: 140
Joined: 3/13/2007
From: UK
Status: offline

IMHO
Lots of the people who post on here are pretty self-opinionated - whey believe they have "the only true version" of how to do BDSM. So if you post on something that is outside their particular "path", it must be you that is in the "wrong" and you get flamed.

There are, however, other wonderful folk who'll consider an idea on it's merits, look to contibute hepful ideas when a question is asked, provide information instead of looking to "score points" and push an agenda. They are the folk who make this a valuable and vibrant community.

In these ways - it's no different to any other community!
Peter

(in reply to subintrainingnc)

Post #: 3

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:35:39 AM

cagliostro

Posts: 128
Joined: 12/29/2007
Status: offline

The sad truth is that a lot of people are immature, and probably angry. It's also a documented fact that the distance, created by the computer and internet, encourages people to be bolder than they ever would in life. So basically you have the pairing of bad attitude and encouragement. Moderators really can't do much about it either. When you can create free accounts and pretty much say anything you want, you're going to get this kind of situation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in general people suck and they get ballsy hiding behind their computers.

(in reply to subintrainingnc)

Post #: 4

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:37:22 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

I did not mean for this to be a discussion about the sad short comings of web board discussions, but about why people choose to direct time and energy into avoiding the questions posted on a topic for discussion, and instead direct personal comments towards the person of the OP.

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to cagliostro)

Post #: 5

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:41:39 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

If you put the information out there, people will react to it. For example, if you say, "my master likes to break my fingers, and I have at least one broken bone at all times, but I'm having trouble getting my rings to fit. How can I wear my rings?"... people are not going to discuss your rings a whole lot, they are going to discuss your relationship.

If instead you say, "I have a broken finger and I would really like to find a way to wear my ring, any suggestions?", then people are going to discuss the rings.

Yes, yes, I know, it's an extreme example, far more extreme than the "procuring" issue, but it serves to illustrate my point in that if you give out information, you cannot realistically say, "but ignore all that background and tell me what you think of the topic in general" and expect people to do that.

And it can be a fine line in the art of written communication. I remember one poster who is no longer around who would word things in a way that was skewed in one direction or the other, without background information, then come back a few posts later and give their own opinion which then caused a ruckus. For instance, this person would say something like, "what do you think of masters who give their slave a task without clear direction, and knowing they have no clear direction, allow them to fail and then punish them for it?". There would then be several posts urging her to approach her master and communicate her confusion, and then as soon as someone said something like, "that's so awful!", the OP would come back and say, "oh yes, I agree, my master would NEVER do that!" and the result was a bunch of people saying "WTF??".

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to subintrainingnc)

Post #: 6

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:43:48 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

Why do you think discussion opened so often focuses on the Kinkster, rather than the Kink?

good question.

I thought exactly about the same..and discussed about it..in mails with soem people.
There are a few things I can come up with..some are just theories though.

Beeing a Dom.....I noticed we Doms can be stuborn...meaning we disagree a lott and judge. (not all do that ofcourse).
So I thought about why it happens that Doms act like that. My guess is that because of the attention we get from subs...leading them..and them thinking we are mostly right..causing us to get this superior feeling.
But outside our subs...we suddenly see other points of views...which we think of course are wrong. So we battle for beeing right..not the actuall subject
(Does this make sense..I have a hard time to write it clear in english)

An other point is...people are just who they are..some are nice...some are not.

An other point....emotions in words are hard to see. Can therefor be difficult to notice.

Society seems in general care less about other humans..especially those that are strangers. Why give a f*ck..
Still they go to forums and judge.

Side subject..moderation.
Some boards have very active moderation...which can prevent personal attacks....but also reduces freedom.
Still..the peopel cause the problems..not the moderators.

Not directly answers..but thoughts... I had about the same subject..

(in reply to subintrainingnc)

Post #: 7

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:44:54 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

If you put the information out there, people will react to it. For example, if you say, "my master likes to break my fingers, and I have at least one broken bone at all times, but I'm having trouble getting my rings to fit. How can I wear my rings?"... people are not going to discuss your rings a whole lot, they are going to discuss your relationship.

If instead you say, "I have a broken finger and I would really like to find a way to wear my ring, any suggestions?", then people are going to discuss the rings.

Yes, yes, I know, it's an extreme example, far more extreme than the "procuring" issue, but it serves to illustrate my point in that if you give out information, you cannot realistically say, "but ignore all that background and tell me what you think of the topic in general" and expect people to do that.

And it can be a fine line in the art of written communication. I remember one poster who is no longer around who would word things in a way that was skewed in one direction or the other, without background information, then come back a few posts later and give their own opinion which then caused a ruckus. For instance, this person would say something like, "what do you think of masters who give their slave a task without clear direction, and knowing they have no clear direction, allow them to fail and then punish them for it?". There would then be several posts urging her to approach her master and communicate her confusion, and then as soon as someone said something like, "that's so awful!", the OP would come back and say, "oh yes, I agree, my master would NEVER do that!" and the result was a bunch of people saying "WTF??".

Cali

Much of this I agree with Cali ... and very well said on those counts.

What about people who post ... "What do you all think of X .... I think blah blah and blah about X ... How about you?" ..

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 8

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:46:46 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

posting/answering is a 2 way system

1 question has to be clear of course
2 peopel can ask what you mean with a question if unclear..instead of directly act rude or make fun of it. (gives the OP time to explain)

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 9

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:48:36 AM

simpleplan2

Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline

I agree with Cali. A lot depends upon the way in which the discussion is approached. But this is a free site and people are pretty much gonna do whatever the hell they feel like doing and write whatever the hell they feel like writing. I often just shake my head at some of the questions posed on the boards. I simply cannot imagine that anyone could seriously being asking it. But....

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 10

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:50:16 AM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Much of this I agree with Cali ... and very well said on those counts.

What about people who post ... "What do you all think of X .... I think blah blah and blah about X ... How about you?" ..

Thank you softness.

I think that style can be very effective. When it is not effective is when people know your personal situation, and know what part X has in it, then they will direct it back to you personally, your relationship, etc., and it may drift away from the actual topic. Part of the risk we take I guess.

Cali

_____________________________

AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 11

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:51:03 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

quote:

But this is a free site and people are pretty much gonna do whatever the hell they feel like doing and write whatever the hell they feel like writing

a free site with rules
I know from the Gorean forum that personal attacks were prevented very often. I am just not sure...when moderation acts and when not.

(in reply to simpleplan2)

Post #: 12

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:52:46 AM

softness

Posts: 2918
Joined: 8/1/2006
From: Leeds, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness
Much of this I agree with Cali ... and very well said on those counts.

What about people who post ... "What do you all think of X .... I think blah blah and blah about X ... How about you?" ..

Thank you softness.

I think that style can be very effective. When it is not effective is when people know your personal situation, and know what part X has in it, then they will direct it back to you personally, your relationship, etc., and it may drift away from the actual topic. Part of the risk we take I guess.

Cali

and eternally frustrating when there is a possibility of interesting and dynamic discussions and insight into other people's thinking, and all you end up with is a bun fight

_____________________________

proudly wearing the blue collar of consideration to DK Leather, Leatherdykeuk, and LeatherEagle of the UK KRueL Leather Family

veritas, respectus honorque in corio

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 13

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:54:14 AM

VivaciousSub

Posts: 446
Joined: 9/7/2008
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

quote:

So we battle for beeing right..not the actuall subject
(Does this make sense..I have a hard time to write it clear in english)

I think it makes total sense. I would refine it further to, "your kink makes me uncomfortable, thus I will try to fix your attitude to take away my own feelings of discomfort". We don't ignore the actual question so much as use it as a prism that reflects light back to the OP, and if we don't like what we see, we go to town. It's a very human "grouping" instinct - we are historically and evolutionarily driven to find others with whom we connect/band together, and it's no different here. If your question appears to earmark you outside the replying poster's norm, there's a high chance they'll react to whatever it is that they don't agree with.

_____________________________

9.8m/s^2 + VivaciousSub + ground = ouchx10^9th

To yield readily--easily--to the persuasion of a friend is no merit.... To yield without conviction is no compliment to the understanding of either. ~ Pride and Prejudice

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 14

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:55:22 AM

Owner4SexSlave

Posts: 1311
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

My advice is such, make the post, and hold your position on your kink, your experience or the topic as best you can.

I've been in some heated threads where the majority was bashing things such a "mircomanagement" for instance. I think I was the first person to step forward with anything positive to express about it.   This actually happened a couple of times.

Think the last time I saw a micromangement thread, people were way more civil and accepting about it.

Sort of depends upon the users/memeber at the time responding, where their mindset/understanding is at the time.

I started a thread on "Shaping and Molding", I really suprised me all the negative and snarky remarks and comments that started to happen in the first two pages. I thought the thread was DOOMed.. However, I came back and assertived myself and the Concept from my own personal experience.

I had attempted to start a thread without sharing any of my personal experience or details about my own POV on it. I just wanted to see what other people had to share about it.

I was a little dumb founded, however, I can understand the negative responses and where they were coming from.   This actually helped me a lot to know the reasoning behind the negative thoughts or impression people had.

However, what I really enjoyed was that other users posted on it in a more positive light. I think being an OP means being able to take the heat, and in doing so it makes others feel more comfortable in making positive posts on the topic.

So yeah, there are times when I will reassert my POV, experiences or thoughts on a topic. If anything to take the heat and deal with the negative attacks on the topic. The tricky part is when it becomes somewhat personal. To try to stick to the topic without taking it as a personal attack against me. LOL.. Not aways a nice warm and pleasent feeling.   But I will go tooth to nail over something.

If anything going tooth and nail, helps me either strengthen my views or it exposes something flawed about my view. In either case, it expands my mind, regardless if things get personal or not.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 15

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:55:26 AM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

that came indeed close to what I meant...
thank you

(in reply to VivaciousSub)

Post #: 16

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:56:27 AM

simpleplan2

Posts: 461
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline

That's true...there are rules but it seems as long as you don't totally slam anyone, you're ok.

(in reply to JustDarkness)

Post #: 17

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 11:57:28 AM

lauren0221

Posts: 681
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

Humans are emotional creatures, with baggage and prejudices. Especially when one is posting something that will tend to hit emotional hotbuttons, there will be emotional rather than rational responses. Just the cost of doing business with our fellow human beings?

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 18

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 12:00:41 PM

JustDarkness

Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
Status: offline

yes agree...I would love it some stricter...personally....
but till now..the mods mostly come in time.
But peoples tollerance level are very different..some feel attacked afther 2 words...some when 20 people attack them.
Hard to judge when people are hurt. Also hard to know...when you hurt people with your opinion.

I rewrite my english often to prevent hurting people. I suck at putting emotion in it.

quote:

Just the cost of doing business with our fellow human beings?

I don't know. We can almost justify everything with that in mind.
Doesn't change the fact it happens though...agree

< Message edited by JustDarkness -- 10/20/2008 12:02:26 PM >

(in reply to simpleplan2)

Post #: 19

RE: The Kink and not the Kinkster - 10/20/2008 12:18:31 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

I can't say that I disagree with cali nor, in a way, with you softness. I remember starting a thread on here once about manners and courtesy and civility. I gave my thoughts on what good vs. bad manners were, what parameters define courtesy and civility from discourteous and/or uncivil behavior and asked others how they saw these same things. Next thing I knew, there were people calling myself and those who thought like I do old-fashioned, there were spats about whether or not manners were called for at all today, etc.. It wound up being more about I am mannerly, you are not rather than what manners, courtesy, civil behavior are to each individual and how they fit.

Part of the nature of the beast.

(in reply to softness)

Post #: 20

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