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Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 12:21:14 PM

AAkasha

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Femdoms who are in a relationship with submissive partners who crave/need/enjoy a higher level of bondage, BDSM, pain play, etc. - do you ever engage in "maintenance topping" -- that is, topping him not because you are "in the mood" but because you know it keeps him better adjusted, more fulfilled, happier, or for some other positive reason? That's not to say you don't *enjoy* the topping on some level, but you do it more for him than for you?

Does your submissive care - do you need to embellish so he feels you are more into it than you really are?

Or, do you simply never top (do bondage, pain games, S&M) unless you are in the mood - he must just wait?

Akasha

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Post #: 1

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 12:46:40 PM

PeonForHer

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Ooooh no, please, Akasha - isn't that in the same mould as feigning orgasm?

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RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 12:58:40 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Ooooh no, please, Akasha - isn't that in the same mould as feigning orgasm?

Is it though? I don't know. I have had a firm, hard rule in any relationship that I don't top when I am not in the mood. It's the biggest reason some relationships didn't last early on - some subs get so whiny and needy if they are not being topped regularly that they then start to pout or behave passive aggressively, or just walk around with a "blue" look on their face, but never outright say anything. I can't control when my "urges" hit. I just know they do. I know that after a really good, intense BDSM session(s) I can have a short downtime of a few days, maybe even a week. If I am doing S&M regularly, it's a couple-of-times-a-week thing. It's clearly better, and more intense, when I hold off a little, and do it after a slight break - but some subs/bottoms always seemed to want topping attention daily, on some level. The challenge for me is that if a guy is hinting, asking, begging, or pouting, it delays it - it kind of kills the mood entirely.

I had a long distance relationship with a very, very HOT bottom who'd do photos/videos and submit via phone (and eventually webcam) and I sometimes found myself "maintenance topping" him if he was in the mood and I wasn't. I considered it investing in the future because I knew I'd want him around when maybe he wasn't that into it. It's not that topping, in that mood, isn't FUN - it's just not the same as when it's done out of LUST. If it's presented as a practical request I tend to do ok with it - if it's presented as needy, whiny, or more passive aggressive it gets irritating.

Akasha

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Post #: 3

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 1:24:42 PM

LadyPact

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No, I can't say that I do. A large part of this I attribute to the fact that it's very rare that I'm *not* in the mood for topping. I know I crave it. I know I need to have My sadist satisfied. I've never been in a position where I've been the person with a lesser drive for play. If anything, I'm generally the person who is more than willing when the opportunity arises. You know, have to settle those minor inconveniences in life like work, etc., to have those opportunities.

I do know what you are talking about though. When things like the work schedule get in the way for a while, yes it does effect the bottom. They have needs for play just like I do. That can build up to a level of frustration where people might get moody, frustrated, or otherwise ill-adjusted. Dare I say it? The same way some people get due to a lack of sexual release.

One thing I'm going to add here. If someone pushes for a certain kind of play, cbt for example, but I'm not in the mood, the less likely he is to get it. I'm more that type all of the way around. If I feel like someone is trying to demand something of Me, the chances of them getting it from Me are quite slim.

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RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 1:35:14 PM

PeonForHer

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But, A, how's this any different from a vanilla relationship in those all-too-frequent situations when he's horny and she isn't? Won't the standard "headache" excuse mollify him?

I can appreciate the pouting, passive-aggressive thing isn't going to fire a woman up - I shudder to think if/when I've done that in the past - but, well, if a Domme were to act it, I hope she acts it well. You're not supposed to find it fun, you're supposed to find it brilliant . . .

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RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 1:48:32 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

But, A, how's this any different from a vanilla relationship in those all-too-frequent situations when he's horny and she isn't? Won't the standard "headache" excuse mollify him?

I can appreciate the pouting, passive-aggressive thing isn't going to fire a woman up - I shudder to think if/when I've done that in the past - but, well, if a Domme were to act it, I hope she acts it well. You're not supposed to find it fun, you're supposed to find it brilliant . . .

In vanilla sexual situations, "I don't feel like it," or "not tonight, dear" is fine - I am in charge of when/how that happens anyway in my relationships. With bottoms, they seem to crave/need/want dominant attention in addition to sex, and it's a different drive/need. I can appreciate it because I know how distracting it is when I have that urge and need to wait to get the itch scratched. But dropping hints or being pouty won't get me into dominant headspace any faster. In my experiences some of them could hold on and be good about it, but others were just way too needy and just pouted. Then it starts a vicious circle because that behavior turns off my femdom side anyway. I think they generally didn't understand/want to understand why I could not be "on" all the time.

Not sure if this is also a side effect of immaturity. These were men generally in their 20s. I've always preferred the young pups. With maturity perhaps comes a little more tact and balance.

Akasha

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Post #: 6

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 1:52:46 PM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Femdoms who are in a relationship with submissive partners who crave/need/enjoy a higher level of bondage, BDSM, pain play, etc. - do you ever engage in "maintenance topping" -- that is, topping him not because you are "in the mood" but because you know it keeps him better adjusted, more fulfilled, happier, or for some other positive reason? That's not to say you don't *enjoy* the topping on some level, but you do it more for him than for you?

Does your submissive care - do you need to embellish so he feels you are more into it than you really are?

Or, do you simply never top (do bondage, pain games, S&M) unless you are in the mood - he must just wait?

Akasha

I do things when I want to do them but then Fox isn't my sub he's my slave and that equals different expectations at least in my household.

If I did something only to please Fox he'd know and he'd disappointed in himself for not being as good a slave as he could be. If I do something to please him because he's pleased me, he understands that is a reward or a treat and is grateful for it.

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Post #: 7

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 2:58:18 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
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Akasha,

I'm not a Femdom in a relationship with a submissive, but I have been the dominant in relationships with submissives and slaves. Did I ever engage in maintenance topping? Yes. There were times I wasn't in the mood for BDSM play, but I played anyway because my partner needed the sensations, reassurance, and structure. The result was a happier, more well-balanced pet (which had indirect and direct benefits for both of us).

quote:

Or, do you simply never top (do bondage, pain games, S&M) unless you are in the mood - he must just wait?

In my experience, "making a partner always wait until you're in the mood" might sound dominant (and perhaps kinky) on paper. It might even work for brief periods while in an actual relationship. Over the long haul though, this isn't a great strategy for building and maintaining a long-term relationship. Indeed, as a dominant, there are times I've exercised executive privilege, regardless of whether my girly submissive/slave was in the mood or not. If one continues to do this without some give and take though, the results can be very damaging to the people involved and to the relationship.

In any relationship that has endured, there tends to be degrees of give and take, and of maintenance from both the top and bottom. Likewise, there are times when partners are perfectly in sync. I don't consider "maintenance topping" or "maintenance bottoming" as activities that are more for one person than for the other. Rather, these are part of the complex dynamics, communications, and needs that make up human, BDSM relationships - at least, this has been my experience.

Elan.

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 8

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:01:35 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
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From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
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i get what i need from Ma'am by just being with Her; and that along with some occasional flirting, teasing, innuendo, touching and just basic affection really does all i could ask for (it doesn't hurt that in the right circumstances, we found that She can send me flying by just absentmindedly playing with my hair and scratching me). The play, or being topped is great and gives me physical pleasure and an incredibly cathartic emotional release that is unmatched; but ultimately it is just graving on the meat and potatoes of our relationship.

That said, i believe that it would hurt me and i would be disappointed to find out that She had scened with me when She didn't really feel like it and/or just wasn't into it but had done it for me. i would be all the more upset, and possibly angry with myself if i were to know that it was some kind of behavior on my part that made Her feel that She had to do it.

As much as i would not stay in a relationship with Her if i did not have certain needs and desires met, in the end the relationship is about what She needs and wants; and that is the way that i want it. If i truly became the focus of the relationship, beyond an honest situation that is important and needed to be dealt with somehow, i doubt either of us would be happy with the relationship and we'd work to rectify the situation.

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Post #: 9

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:03:55 PM

ElanSubdued

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thetammyjo,

quote:

If I did something only to please Fox he'd know and he'd disappointed in himself for not being as good a slave as he could be. If I do something to please him because he's pleased me, he understands that is a reward or a treat and is grateful for it.

Fox and I are seemingly wired differently. Certainly, in the latter case, I enjoy receiving praise for pleasing my owner. However, in the prior case, should my owner wish to pamper me purely for my own enjoyment and equilibrium, well gee... I'm all for it! :-)

Elan.

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Post #: 10

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:11:10 PM

PeonForHer

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Somebody's going to highlight it, A, so it might as well be me - with the polite and diplomatic style you've come to know and love:

These were men generally in their 20s.

Therein lies your answer, maybe?

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RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:12:02 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
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From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
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i just wanted to add that Ma'am topping me just for me would be unsatisfying for me for another reason, knowing that She absolutely wants me in that way and in that moment is an absolute thrill for me; without that knowledge it might as well be just about anyone else, the scene without the all-important connection. If i wanted casual play, i wouldn't have worked so hard for this relationship.

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

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Post #: 12

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:14:38 PM

AAkasha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

Akasha,

I'm not a Femdom in a relationship with a submissive, but I have been the dominant in relationships with submissives and slaves. Did I ever engage in maintenance topping? Yes. There were times I wasn't in the mood for BDSM play, but I played anyway because my partner needed the sensations, reassurance, and structure. The result was a happier, more well-balanced pet (which had indirect and direct benefits for both of us).

quote:

Or, do you simply never top (do bondage, pain games, S&M) unless you are in the mood - he must just wait?

In my experience, "making a partner always wait until you're in the mood" might sound dominant (and perhaps kinky) on paper. It might even work for brief periods while in an actual relationship. Over the long haul though, this isn't a great strategy for building and maintaining a long-term relationship. Indeed, as a dominant, there are times I've exercised executive privilege, regardless of whether my girly submissive/slave was in the mood or not. If one continues to do this without some give and take though, the results can be very damaging to the people involved and to the relationship.

In any relationship that has endured, there tends to be degrees of give and take, and of maintenance from both the top and bottom. Likewise, there are times when partners are perfectly in sync. I don't consider "maintenance topping" or "maintenance bottoming" as activities that are more for one person than for the other. Rather, these are part of the complex dynamics, communications, and needs that make up human, BDSM relationships - at least, this has been my experience.

Elan.

Of course any relationship requires compromise. I'm a very giving person - nurturing, affectionate, selfless when it comes to the people that I love. However, I don't fake dominance - I can't just pretend, unless it's a fairly meaningless casual relationship (even then, I can do it in very small doses), and I certainly can't reach inside and top someone lustfully because I am obligated to. In my experience, certain types of submissives don't want this either - they want the real, raw stuff.

I don't think it's unrealistic that when it comes to compromise, on the topic of "dominance," the submissive should be the one doing the compromising for the better of the relationship. Dominating out of obligation leads to burn out and resentment and ultimately ruins a relationship. If a man trusts and respects my dominant side, he understands it's better to wait and get the real stuff - it's better for both of us. Needy submissives suck the life out of me.

I'm also not talking about relationships with "kinky women" who top once in a blue moon and then pull a bait and switch. Any man who has been with me in a relationship knows my dominant urges come like clockwork. Unless I am dealing with some heavy emotional stuff or incredible tension with work or deadlines, you can mark a calendar by it. For a sub to get needy and push me to dominate him rather than give me the space I need makes me feel like he wants the femdom, not the woman. In a relationship, it's all or nothing - and I don't compromise on my kink, it rubs me the wrong way. I'll have sex when I am not in the mood, give a blow job when I have a headache, go run an errand as a favor if my man isn't up for it - but I won't play make believe with dominance just because he's horny for it. It defeats the purpose. I think most sub men don't want that, either.

Akasha

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Post #: 13

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:30:42 PM

IntellectualPro

Posts: 20
Joined: 12/30/2007
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quote:

I can't control when my "urges" hit. I just know they do.

<broad generalization>
It seems to be along the same lines as the initial D/s pursuit. As you've said before, many a sub longs to be seduced and it loses some of the thrill (while maybe instilling a little humbleness) to come out and admit you're really hoping it'll happen soon. Meanwhile you get to have your way whenever the mood strikes.
</broad generalization>

However, submissive does not equate to passive. Surely there must be ways of enticing you into dominant headspace, if you'll allow it. One approach that worked in the past with a particular Domme was that she allowed me to don any toy/gear I liked as an indication of interest, however it could not be removed until she said so (which could be days). I think my growing predicament helped her get into that lusty place, through a controlled mechanism that prevented pouting and passive-agressive behavior. Worse yet, if she really wasn't in the mood for days, I could only blame myself for my own impatience.

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Post #: 14

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:33:53 PM

PeonForHer

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I won't play make believe with dominance just because he's horny for it. It defeats the purpose. I think most sub men don't want that, either.

Undoubtedly correct. But if you play-act just once, and he spots it, won't he always suspect that you're play-acting in the future?

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Post #: 15

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:36:20 PM

ElanSubdued

Posts: 1511
Status: offline

darchChylde,

quote:

That said, i believe that it would hurt me and i would be disappointed to find out that She had scened with me when She didn't really feel like it and/or just wasn't into it but had done it for me. i would be all the more upset, and possibly angry with myself if i were to know that it was some kind of behavior on my part that made Her feel that She had to do it.

I must be the odd submissive out here. Now indeed, if I discovered a regular, established pattern that my dominant somehow felt forced to play with me because of my behavior, I would not be happy and, like you, I'd be disappointed in myself. However, if, from time-to-time, my dominant plays with me for my own enjoyment (even if she's not in the mood), I have no problem with this. She makes the decisions. If she has decided to play, I'm not going to second guess her decision making or motives. The only time I'd be concerned is if she was feeling coerced and resentful. As I hinted at in my post to Akasha, there are times people do things exclusively for the benefit of their partner. This, in my experience, is an aspect of all long-term relationships. With both domme and submissive partners, I've played many times when I wasn't in the mood. Why? Because I knew my partner needed the play. Libidos sometimes don't sync up so I'm fine with a mixture of mutual enjoyment, give, and take.

Elan.

(in reply to darchChylde)

Post #: 16

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:41:21 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I won't play make believe with dominance just because he's horny for it. It defeats the purpose. I think most sub men don't want that, either.

Undoubtedly correct. But if you play-act just once, and he spots it, won't he always suspect that you're play-acting in the future?

My dominant style is one that is undeniable. I can't explain it, but you know it when you see it. Faking it would be like faking a raging hardon or actual ejaculation. It's not just a series of acts, it's a consuming state of mind and attitude and mannerism that I don't readily adopt or fake. I think even if I tried it'd be silly. Just randomly topping is one thing - it's a series of acts, after all. I don't get wet from that. I guess if he really wanted to know if I was faking it, he could reach between my legs (if his hands were free).

Akasha

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Post #: 17

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:52:26 PM

PsyVamp

Posts: 1026
Joined: 10/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

But, A, how's this any different from a vanilla relationship in those all-too-frequent situations when he's horny and she isn't? Won't the standard "headache" excuse mollify him?

Where are these men? It is usually the opposite in My case... dang you all and your "recoup" time..
Oh... and "I have a headache" does not qualify as an excuse not to have sex... unless it is one of those "don't touch Me" migraines

Aakasha, I've "topped" before, when I wasn't in the mood, but only in the bedroom. And that is mostly because, well, I like sex..and it doesn't take Me long to get IN the mood, and if he is going to make submissive sounds in bed... oy, never mind. No wank fodder here.

I haven't topped outside of the bedroom when I'm not in the mood to top.

Lady Jag

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Post #: 18

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 3:57:46 PM

darchChylde

Posts: 5279
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From: Warm Springs, GA but i live in San Francisco.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElanSubdued

darchChylde,

quote:

That said, i believe that it would hurt me and i would be disappointed to find out that She had scened with me when She didn't really feel like it and/or just wasn't into it but had done it for me. i would be all the more upset, and possibly angry with myself if i were to know that it was some kind of behavior on my part that made Her feel that She had to do it.

I must be the odd submissive out here. Now indeed, if I discovered a regular, established pattern that my dominant somehow felt forced to play with me because of my behavior, I would not be happy and, like you, I'd be disappointed in myself. However, if, from time-to-time, my dominant plays with me for my own enjoyment (even if she's not in the mood), I have no problem with this. She makes the decisions. If she has decided to play, I'm not going to second guess her decision making or motives. The only time I'd be concerned is if she was feeling coerced and resentful. As I hinted at in my post to Akasha, there are times people do things exclusively for the benefit of their partner. This, in my experience, is an aspect of all long-term relationships. With both domme and submissive partners, I've played many times when I wasn't in the mood. Why? Because I knew my partner needed the play. Libidos sometimes don't sync up so I'm fine with a mixture of mutual enjoyment, give, and take.

Elan.

i suppose i should clarify... i agree, if She felt there was a need and decided to meet that need in a scene or by play; i'm ok with that. It's like has been said above, the passive-aggressive coersion is the part that bothers me. i'm not saying i've never acted in such a way in relationships (not in a D/s relationship, as this is my first), or even that i won't in this one because we all get into our moods and i might get into that mood sometime, though i hope not for my own safety.

Ma'am is not stupid, nor is She easily manipulated; i doubt i could ever get Her to do something She did not want to do (which is a major statement from me, as i once had been very good at manipulating others and did so on a frequent basis just for the crual kicks and the power trip).

In the end, i'm just very lucky for the fact that i don't need play but seldom; unfortunately though, when i do get play i am very high maintanence in the area of aftercare so i don't think a maintanance beating would work for us anyways.

< Message edited by darchChylde -- 10/20/2008 3:58:32 PM >

_____________________________

I'm the man your mother warned you about...
if only to keep me to herself.

I'm a male dominant switch whose experienced as a poly sub to a dominant woman
.
Where the fuck do I post?

Proud Owner and Protector of chyldeschylde.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)

Post #: 19

RE: Maintenance topping - 10/20/2008 4:15:40 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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Like everything else, I think that there are certain responsibilities that come along with being a Keeper of human servants. One of those things is making sure that the servants are well adjusted and cared for -- it just improves the general texture of the house... so yes, sometimes I top a servant just because I know xhe needs that interaction... that heavy play, that level of intensity.

I don't take well to being pushed into something, or to undercurrents of manipulation. Typically, if I sense that a servant needs intensity, I am the one to decide. The servant who uses disobedience or attempts manipulation to get attention in our household typically -does- get attention... a highly attended escort to the door... but a servant who -needs-, and who I know needs what I don't often give, and yet who is diligent, dedicated and patient... oh yes, I'll reward that (even if I have to find someone -else- to attend to a particular kink that we don't participate in, but that the servant really loves.)

I see it as part of the concession I made to keeping servants... in the same way that sometimes, whether I wanted to do it or not, I took our German Shepherd out to the park and ran him -hard- and wore him into exhaustion... because it made him feel good to be pushed and played with, and because it made me feel good to know that I'd taken care of my pet... and I always felt better -myself- afterward, even if I hadn't wanted to do it at the time.

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 10/20/2008 4:18:36 PM >

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Post #: 20

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