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RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 6:57:04 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sheesh, Abbadabba would be a continuation of Bush, tax and spend, tax and spend!
And borrow, borrow, borrow!
He's already rounding up Bush's people, he said Colin Powell would be in an "Obama administration."

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 7:03:37 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		the only reason i mentioned the bailout, in this thread, was to support my decision to vote 3rd party.  there are more than 2 parties on the ballot in my state. 

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 7:36:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sheesh, Abbadabba would be a continuation of Bush, tax and spend, tax and spend!
And borrow, borrow, borrow!
He's already rounding up Bush's people, he said Colin Powell would be in an "Obama administration."


And what would McCain be a continuation of?   Considering he doesn't have to round up Bush's people, they've been part of his campaign staff from the start.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 7:42:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I will repeat this question... who pays for all the partying of the last 8 years under Bush...you know, those stimulus checks, the various wars, the largest increase in the power of the federal government since Lyndon  Johnson in the form of Homeland Security? Who pays for the Wall Street bailout? Those 45% of Americans that do not invest in stocks, have interests in oil? Who pays for all the borrowing from China? I do not get you folks that think we do not have to pay off the debts we have... for crying out loud!

Passing the buck... it is what most republicans suggest we do


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(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 7:57:56 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		sorry, but there are dems & pubs up there in DC running the house & the senate.  the dems have been dominant the past 2 years.  all those dems got elected in 2006 promising to end the war in iraq and putting the breaks on government speeding.  they did not keep their promise!  i am a registered pub and in 2006 i voted for the dems that made those promises.  they all lie and say anything to get elected.

matter of fact their approval rating is in single digits right now, lower than Bush's approval rating.... HA!......

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:00:07 PM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		There are a couple of problems with these stats. 
First, they are nuts.   Did you include the 700 Bailout in Bush's term, and the new stimiulus package they are talking about now?
Who is going to pay for it?  
It is not us because a lot of us are losing jobs, and hours. 
Figure that one out.
 
Regards, MissSCD

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:00:27 PM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I will repeat this question... who pays for all the partying of the last 8 years under Bush...you know, those stimulus checks, the various wars, the largest increase in the power of the federal government since Lyndon  Johnson in the form of Homeland Security? Who pays for the Wall Street bailout? Those 45% of Americans that do not invest in stocks, have interests in oil? Who pays for all the borrowing from China? I do not get you folks that think we do not have to pay off the debts we have... for crying out loud!

Passing the buck... it is what most republicans suggest we do



julia this is exactly how I feel!
spend, spend, spend all the way to hell in a handbasket!

No one should ever pay!
Damn it, just keep spending!
I have heard talk about another economic bailout and
also more stimulus checks coming!
yahoo!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 10/20/2008 8:04:36 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:03:41 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Let me ask you a simple question.  Do you understand what marginal tax rates are and how misleading it is to use them as a method of comparison? ...Or did you just latch on to the first link you found on the site that said Obama will raise taxes? 

That was a Fast Reply, not a response to your post. But since you brought it up...

I don't appreciate your insulting crap. If you think there's something greasy about using marginal tax rates in the comparison, support your claim.

What a concept, eh?

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/20/2008 8:04:34 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:04:30 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

oh my goodness!  Sen. Obama has clearly stated he will raise taxes.  to be honest if we go back to something similar to the Clinton tax plan, that would not upset me.  hell, i voted for Clinton, met him face to face twice, once before he won in 1992 and again this year.  i think he is a very intelligent man.  i do not agree with him on everything, but i do respect him.   my OP was information i obtained from a friend and i added a link to a website he gave me.  if you look at that website it is full of positives & negatives on both presidential candidates.  i found the website somewhat informative.  of course we all know that alot of media information whether it comes from the right or the left, can sometimes be misleading/untrue.  i was just sharing and hoping to hear others opinions. 
sorry to upset you, rulemylife.  my opinions or decisions are just that, mine.  i do not expect everyone to agree with me.      


Raise taxes on the top 5% of earners by a small percentage that will hardly be detrimental to them. 

Unless you are making a quarter million dollars a year you will see a tax cut.

I don't get upset when someone states their opinions or decisions.  I don't even get upset when people state facts that oppose my views.

What upsets me is when people claim things that someone else told them are fact without bothering to check for themselves.  It also pisses me off when someone lists statistics that are manipulated by dubious sources and claim they are factual.  Even after the provider of those statistics clearly states that the numbers were being erroneously used by those dubious sources.  

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:08:16 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		i never stated my OP was fact.  it was information i found that i posted for others to post about.

take a chill pill

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:13:32 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		oh and i forgot....the rich business owners will not pay those higher taxes, they will pass it down to the consumer or cut back on personnel in the businesses.  the rich will not take a pay cut, no way.......the middle class will take the hit......ha!

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:22:03 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Let me ask you a simple question.  Do you understand what marginal tax rates are and how misleading it is to use them as a method of comparison? ...Or did you just latch on to the first link you found on the site that said Obama will raise taxes? 

That was a Fast Reply, not a response to your post. But since you brought it up...

I don't appreciate your insulting crap. If you think there's something greasy about using marginal tax rates in the comparison, support your claim.

What a concept, eh?

K.




My apologies if it came out as insulting. it wasn't my intention.

Though I do see it was.

The normal comparisons use statutory tax rates.  Using marginal tax rates is pretending to clarify the issue my muddying it with concepts that have nothing to do with whether you will have more or less money in your hand as the final result.  

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:33:15 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

i never stated my OP was fact.  it was information i found that i posted for others to post about.

take a chill pill


So, you presented a link and statistical charts not as facts to support your viewpoint but only for us to determine if they were factual or not?

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:40:59 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		my OP was to promote and stimulate conversation etc about the issue.  i enjoy sharing information and learning from others.  message boards are fun for me.  if i or anyone else learns something in the process it is a good thing, right?

most political opinions do not fit perfectly in the dem box or the pub box or any of the 3rd party box.  there are alot of moderates, no matter the party one associates themselves with. 





_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:43:59 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

sorry, but there are dems & pubs up there in DC running the house & the senate.  the dems have been dominant the past 2 years.  all those dems got elected in 2006 promising to end the war in iraq and putting the breaks on government speeding.  they did not keep their promise!  i am a registered pub and in 2006 i voted for the dems that made those promises.  they all lie and say anything to get elected.

matter of fact their approval rating is in single digits right now, lower than Bush's approval rating.... HA!......
How were the dems supposed to end the war with Bush in the White House.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:50:27 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		well i sorta wondered the same thing.  they did run for office promising to end the war in Iraq.  i voted for those dems for some of the same reasons alot of pubs i know are voting for Obama, because they want change and hope for the best. 

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:54:02 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bestbabync

my OP was to promote and stimulate conversation etc about the issue.  i enjoy sharing information and learning from others.  message boards are fun for me.  if i or anyone else learns something in the process it is a good thing, right?

most political opinions do not fit perfectly in the dem box or the pub box or any of the 3rd party box.  there are alot of moderates, no matter the party one associates themselves with. 






Now I know you're a Republican.  

That backpedal would've made even W blush. 

(in reply to bestbabync)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:57:17 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The normal comparisons use statutory tax rates.  Using marginal tax rates is pretending to clarify the issue my muddying it with concepts that have nothing to do with whether you will have more or less money in your hand as the final result.  

Well okay, but Kotlikoff and Rapson use marginal tax rates in their paper, as do other scholarly works I've come across that study systems of taxation, so the approach seem to be accepted as a legitimate metric.
 
If you'd care to explain your point more fully, however, I'm willing to listen.
 
K.
 
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/20/2008 9:07:29 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 8:57:59 PM   
bestbabync


Posts: 1061
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline 		rulemylife

too bad you do not know me.  i am a registered republican.  never denied it!  just because i am a registered pub, i do not always vote pub......give me a break!

but like many have stated in another thread about Colin Powell, all can be redeemed!.........ha!

< Message edited by bestbabync -- 10/20/2008 8:58:47 PM >

_____________________________

"A woman is the only thing I am afraid of that I know will not hurt me" Abraham Lincoln
"Choose Life, your mother did!"
www.howobamagotelected.com
http://www.lp.org/platform
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2CaBR3z85c

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: projected increase in our taxes if Senator Obama wi... - 10/20/2008 9:30:18 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Well okay, but Kotlikoff and Rapson use marginal tax rates in their paper, as do other scholarly works I've come across that study systems of taxation, so the approach seem to be accepted as a legitimate metric.
 
If you'd care to explain your point more fully, however, I'm willing to listen.
 
K.
 


Since marginal tax rates only take into account the last dollar earned, it fails to address the fact that dollars earned before that 'last' dollar are taxed at a lower rate.

Say there are only two tax tiers and the top tier is 35% and the 2nd tier is 25% with a cutoff at $100.00

I earned $101.00 .. $1 of that is taxed at 35% .. the other $100 is taxed at the lower rate. I'm not paying $35.35 as would be assumed by looking only at marginal tax rates. I'm actually paying $25.35 in taxes. If you ask me what my tax bracket is though .. it's 35%.

With that extra $10, I can go buy some apples .. or, you know.. oranges.

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 60
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