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RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/22/2008 11:17:54 AM

AStudyInScarlet

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Joined: 10/20/2008
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i didn't say the sex made it bad, that's why i clarified. we have been together for 8 months and are deeply in love. i'm surprised and annoyed at all the advice to just break up and be friends, as if it was that easy. one would think that all you valued in a relationship was sex. being dominated is not more important to me than he is. maybe i should take this thread to the switch forum.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 21

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/22/2008 11:44:31 AM

WhiplashSmile2

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
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Yes, and it's known as being a submissive couple, or even a switch couple. Try not to let it disturb your mind too much. Use good communication and be good to one another. Don't let the labels and narrow minded stereotypes screw with your mindset. Keep a focus upon your relationship first and formost.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 22

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/22/2008 11:56:39 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

i didn't say the sex made it bad, that's why i clarified. we have been together for 8 months and are deeply in love. i'm surprised and annoyed at all the advice to just break up and be friends, as if it was that easy. one would think that all you valued in a relationship was sex. being dominated is not more important to me than he is. maybe i should take this thread to the switch forum.

If you dont want advice then just carry on, I was using a personal experiance to say why it may not work. You claim not to be switch and to feel uncomfy being called misstress, in that case, tell him you dont feel comfy.

If you know what you want to do why ask? Sure two subs can be together, but they wouldnt really have a D/s dynamic, most sub couples I have met are looking for poly relationships. You could switch, but you say thats not what you are, you could pretend but that would upset you. If you dont want subjective answers then yeah sure, you can have a perfect relationship just as you are, dont do or say anything it will all be fine :)

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(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 23

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/22/2008 12:27:58 PM

angelikaJ

Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

i didn't say the sex made it bad, that's why i clarified. we have been together for 8 months and are deeply in love. i'm surprised and annoyed at all the advice to just break up and be friends, as if it was that easy. one would think that all you valued in a relationship was sex. being dominated is not more important to me than he is. maybe i should take this thread to the switch forum.

"Are you involved in your local BDSM community... would participating in your local dungeon be a way for each of you to get your needs met by having "play partners" who could fulfill those needs?"

There is no suggestion in this post about you breaking up.. the suggestion is to go to functions together as a sub/sub couple...and to go to the dungeon together and find partners who will meet your mutual needs.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 24

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/22/2008 3:57:06 PM

littlesarbonn

Posts: 1710
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Stockton, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

is it that easy to simply say goodbye if you're in love?

It can work if the two of you want it to. I've been in a few submissive/submissive relationships over the years just because a woman and I saw eye to eye on a lot of different things. Sometimes, we served another woman; othertimes, we were just close and intimate together.

One thing I discovered when there are two sincere submissives in a relationship is that both tend to be quite into making sure the other is satisfied (and I don't mean just sexually). In those relationships I've had in the past, that's actually been the coolest thing, and there were times where I told myself I'd forgo any relationship with a dominant, just because I was pretty happy being with someone I cared about and who appeared to care about me equally as well.

It doesn't always work out, but it can. I'd really avoid the psychological babble people will give you about "needing" a dominant and all that so by their Internet definitions you can never be happy. You know what you want and need; there are no definites in any types of relationship or even in the desire for a relationship. If you find yourself loving someone, love that person. If that person is capable of providing you pleasure that you seek, and you are capable of reciprocating, then questioning it over and over and dismissing it because it doesn't fit a series of Internet word games is really just defeating your own wants, desires and needs.

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(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 25

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/23/2008 5:10:51 PM

shivermetimbers

Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

technically two people who identify as switches but are really subs switching off to please their partner. i think we'd both rather be subs all the time. i end up having to be on top almost all the time. he calls me mistress even though i don't feel like one.

Deanna and I are both subs. However, we are both extremely capable of topping each other to satisfy our masochistic/submissively sexual needs. But I don't view my submission from strictly a sexual standpoint, rather from a service standpoint, and it works great for us. We have also agreed that if there is something we would like to try that the other can't provide or doesn't have experience in, we will seek out a dominant who would be willing to work with us for whatever may be needed.

When we play, she has at times called me "Sir" and I really got off on that. Had it made me feel odd, I would have told her so. I don't call her Mistress, ma'am, etc. but if I were to use such a term, she would let me know how she felt about it. That's just simple communication, so if it bothers you for him to call you Mistress, then let him know. Otherwise, even though you may not feel like one, if it's okay with you then let him call you Mistress, it makes his time enjoyable.

As far as you usually being the one topping, if you are feeling your needs aren't being met, then again, say so to him. I think two people who love each other before the sex happens should have no problem talking about the sexual component of the relationship. That's the only way you two are going to find a happy medium. That's what Deanna and I discussed long before we even met, as we found we were so compatible outside of BDSM, we had to ensure that if we were to take the step to a relationship, we needed to know how we each were going to have our submissively sexual needs cared for. I'm not suggesting that you should talk about letting others top you, rather considering it as an option. And as far as "who tops who and when", that is just a dynamic that has to work out, and again, you have to talk things over. For us, whoever picked up the whip first is the one in charge, we don't battle over it. We also have agreed that anytime one of us wants something, we just do it, and the other must comply. Keep in mind we talked about this for two months before we even met in person, and it has worked beautifully. We know each others turn ons, limits, reluctancies, and skills. We both know that we will never engage in something to please the other if we don't have the skill, e.g. one throwing a single tail at the other. Neither of us know how to handle one, so we wouldn't even attempt it.

So long story short, if you can't talk about your needs being met, then your basic relationship needs an upgrade in communication skills. So yes, it is possible for two subs to have a relationship, just like two dominants or two switches can have a relationship. And as in any relationship, you have to have the basic communication skills before you can travel down any sexual road, vanilla or BDSM.

Best of luck to you, and hoping you have a long, healthy, relationship together.

_____________________________

I love you Deanna, you make every day a better day.

If we descended from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?

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(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 26

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/23/2008 5:12:37 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

Yes...but, never let them actually touch.

They'll implode on contact.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 27

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/24/2008 3:37:26 AM

Aheeb

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/19/2006
Status: offline

Maybe you two should find a Domme/Dom that wants to be in charge of a couple that you too both like.

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 28

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/24/2008 7:01:09 AM

AStudyInScarlet

Posts: 79
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

shiver, i'd love to know more about your relationship. i guess communication is a mantra for any kind of relationship. we have talked about it and pet says that he wishes he could be more toppy for me but doesn't feel any good at it (lies! he's wonderful). he's the one who taught me everything in the first place so i know he can take the reigns when he wants to.

"And as far as "who tops who and when", that is just a dynamic that has to work out, and again, you have to talk things over."
so how did this work itself out for you? for us, i'm more likely to pick up a whip first. when he's stressed, he wants someone else calling the shots. he has a very stressful job so that's always! he's the boss so he comes home and wants me to be the boss.
i don't mind being called mistress but at first it was weird to hear because i don't feel like a mistress. we both love my name for him, "pet" which just sort of came about organically. i called him a bunch of pet names but pet stuck. so it would seem we have a polarized dynamic.

(in reply to Aheeb)

Post #: 29

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/24/2008 12:14:11 PM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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Scarlet it sounds like you have an amazing relationship and your love is much bigger than any of this. For some the entire world has to revolve around BDSM whilst people like you are willing to make huge compromises for the sake of saving something very special... I take my hat off to you.

I am in a three way relationship. My partner and me love power exchange (hence we are always covered in bruises!). If I submit its with a fight and if he submits its an absolute full on fight to the death ( Please don't shout me down anyone because we love what we do). We also both have a very strong dominant side, a side that shows little mercy and a side that if Im honest, likes it on a plate and so we have a female submissive who we both adore.

Would you both be willing to take on a 3rd or even 4th party? not into your relationship but into your playground?

If you only want to keep it as the two of you then a suggestion would be to talk seriously about creating a happy balance. When your more sub than Dom its easy to become selfish if not a little greedy but he needs to understand that without balance you will eventually grow resentful.
I think its great to switch within a session. I don't mean like 'ok I flogged you so now its your turn to flog me'. Its more about going to that happy place in the sky, coming down from it and then grabbing him by the hair, looking him seriously in the eye and saying 'now its my turn'. With S I never ask him to dominate me or him ask me, it just has to happen.

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 30

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/25/2008 1:14:04 AM

shivermetimbers

Posts: 2060
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

shiver, i'd love to know more about your relationship. i guess communication is a mantra for any kind of relationship. we have talked about it and pet says that he wishes he could be more toppy for me but doesn't feel any good at it (lies! he's wonderful). he's the one who taught me everything in the first place so i know he can take the reigns when he wants to.

"And as far as "who tops who and when", that is just a dynamic that has to work out, and again, you have to talk things over."
so how did this work itself out for you? for us, i'm more likely to pick up a whip first. when he's stressed, he wants someone else calling the shots. he has a very stressful job so that's always! he's the boss so he comes home and wants me to be the boss.
i don't mind being called mistress but at first it was weird to hear because i don't feel like a mistress. we both love my name for him, "pet" which just sort of came about organically. i called him a bunch of pet names but pet stuck. so it would seem we have a polarized dynamic.

The who top's who worked out really nice. We didn't set aside times, or flip coins. For me, I kind of worked out of, "what would I like having done to me?" and got creative in that manner. Like I said before, we both agreed that if one wants to do something, the other complies. I think if you keep letting him know he's topping you well, it will only get better for the two of you. Also for us, it isn't necessary to be BDSM all the time, and that goes back to our basic compatibility. We are still people first, just as you two are. I think it's wonderful that you are working things out, and I hope it only keeps getting better!!

_____________________________

I love you Deanna, you make every day a better day.

If we descended from monkeys and apes, why are there still monkeys and apes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ3CJi0Ih9s&feature=player_embedded

http://www.thebuccozone.com/piratesong.htm

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 31

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/25/2008 5:09:19 AM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

I see this this way...

Any relationship between two people can work provided they're prepared to communicate openly and honestly with each other, to accept each other for who they really are, and to accept that sacrifices and compromises must be made for the sake of the relationship.

Just because you're in a relationship with someone doesn't mean that it has to work out, that there aren't going to be difficulties, conflicts, disappointments and all sorts of other issues, but it is the relationship which provides both the basis and the opportunity for solutions to be found to such problems. I mean, when you're both together in a relationship you both still are getting to know one another and there is always it seems some sort of opportunity to explore and try something different. But both of you need to have an open mind and work it out by talking it through and by trial and error. It's usually when one or both people in the relationship gives up trying that it all falls apart.

I think whether anything is possible or not in your relationship largely depends on the two of you and how flexible you are both prepared to be for the sake of the relationship.

But the one thing here is that you cannot have it both ways. It's like you cannot post about your relationship here on these boards asking for opinions and then get upset with some of the people for the advice they are offering you. Are you just as dismissive when your partner makes a suggestion too? Maybe this is where the problem lies, in that either one or both of you have a preconceived notion of how the relationship is meant to work out and there's basically no room for any sort of constructive dialogue or attempt at a solution between you. Are you sure that you and your partner really have explored all the possible options? What if the solution is something that you weren't expecting? Would you honestly be prepared to accept that for the sake of the relationship and both being happy?

But this is my take on it - anything is possible so long as you both make it possible. It's your relationship when all is said and done.

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(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 32

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/25/2008 7:44:13 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
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I haven't read all of the replies, but topping and bottoming are not the same as dominating and submitting. There are dominants who bottom and submissives who top, so as far as play time goes, that can be worked out amongst the individuals in the relationship.

There are plenty of examples of relationships here that involve two dominants, and I'm sure there are those with two submissives. But I would think that if the individuals involved want any type of D/s relationship, then either they will have to look towards some type of poly dynamic, or figure out if one or both of you have switch tendancies and find a workable and fulfilling solution for both people.

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 33

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/26/2008 3:13:09 AM

cravesdom

Posts: 5219
Joined: 3/28/2008
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

My love and I are both subs. When we first started flirting on the boards, I thought "How could that possibly work?" But I have absolutely no doubts now that I can be extremely happy with another sub. Not just any sub. But him. I think part of the reason it works so well for us is that he and I both want to genuinely please the other. I don't know if he feels the same, but I know I would feel very guilty if it were always him playing the dominant role. Even though we both have a lot of switch in us, we are both absolutely more submissive than dominant. And I know he loves it when I take control. And because I know he loves it, I love taking control. (Plus I love leaving marks on him!)

I have to admit that I have tried switching before and never found it very fulfilling. But then the person I was with was not someone I loved. The emotional connection has made all the difference in this relationship. I love him, therefore I want him to be happy. And not just a little happy. I want him to be deliriously happy!

I hate to say it, but if he is letting you take control all the time and is not reciprocating, then he is being selfish. Let him know how you feel. Maybe that is all it will take, especially if he loves you like you love him. Talk to him!

As for titles, Shiver and I never talked about them until after the first time I called him Sir. I didn't think he heard me since I had a paintbrush in my mouth at the time and my speech was somewhat slurred. Afterwards he asked me if he had heard me call him Sir. I sheepishly admitted that he had. I was very happy that it was ok with him because it is something that comes very naturally to me, especially once I have slipped into a very submissive headspace. No, he has never called me Mistress and to be honest, I don't really feel like his Mistress so I can see where that could be disconcerting. But if that pleased him, I would be fine with it.

Oh, and to be honest. I don't feel I am very good at being in the dominant role either! But I am hoping with a lot more practice I will get better and better. Avoiding it like he seems to be doing is not going to help him improve!

I wish you both the best of luck!

Deanna

_____________________________

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"A lot of disappointed people have been left standing on the street corner waiting for the bus marked 'Perfection.' " Donald Kennedy

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 34

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/29/2008 8:41:18 PM

AStudyInScarlet

Posts: 79
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I haven't read all of the replies, but topping and bottoming are not the same as dominating and submitting. There are dominants who bottom and submissives who top, so as far as play time goes, that can be worked out amongst the individuals in the relationship.

i initially glossed over this but i'm coming back to it because i've been poking around the board a bit and i see what you're saying. let me figure this out... we ARE switches in terms of topping and bottoming, the physical acts. but in terms of the power exchange, i would be the dom to his sub. am i close? they seem entwined, but extricable if you are a switch. it seems a lot of people here don't make the distinction.

thanks to those of you who shared your personal experiences.
i don't think i am actually a sub after all. i am a switch. a switch who is just getting a little antsy because we haven't switched in a while.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)

Post #: 35

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/30/2008 5:34:45 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Open the relationship. You can then remain best friends and lovers but get your domination fix elsewhere. Either by seeking separate partners or one who wants a couple.

But allowing him to force you into always acting like a person you don't want to be is guaranteed to destroy the love and friendship.

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(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 36

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/30/2008 8:31:20 AM

BRNaughtyAngel

Posts: 1821
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AStudyInScarlet

quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

I haven't read all of the replies, but topping and bottoming are not the same as dominating and submitting. There are dominants who bottom and submissives who top, so as far as play time goes, that can be worked out amongst the individuals in the relationship.

i initially glossed over this but i'm coming back to it because i've been poking around the board a bit and i see what you're saying. let me figure this out... we ARE switches in terms of topping and bottoming, the physical acts. but in terms of the power exchange, i would be the dom to his sub. am i close? they seem entwined, but extricable if you are a switch. it seems a lot of people here don't make the distinction.

thanks to those of you who shared your personal experiences.
i don't think i am actually a sub after all. i am a switch. a switch who is just getting a little antsy because we haven't switched in a while.

So in the relationship dynamic, you are the one "in charge", but when it comes to play time, the two of you switch up who is the "whacker" and who is the "whackee"? Plenty of people play without any D/s entering the equation.

I'm not sure I'm understanding the last part of your post. It seems you have been in one role for too long and want to take on the other role? Are you talking about in the D/s part or topping/bottoming part?

(in reply to AStudyInScarlet)

Post #: 37

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/30/2008 10:33:43 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
Status: offline

Sure. Had a relationship (Still have a friendship) with a person who, if he used D/s verbeage, would identify as a switch, as do I. I prefer to be submissie with males, he prefers to be submissive with me (I'm relatively sure it would generalize to other females). I have always held the more Dominant dynamic in the situation though we can get an interesting back and forth debate going standing on equal footing. Friendship and love are foundational. :>
Davan

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 38

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/31/2008 11:34:43 AM

WidowSpiders

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cravesdom

My love and I are both subs. When we first started flirting on the boards, I thought "How could that possibly work?" But I have absolutely no doubts now that I can be extremely happy with another sub. Not just any sub. But him. I think part of the reason it works so well for us is that he and I both want to genuinely please the other. I don't know if he feels the same, but I know I would feel very guilty if it were always him playing the dominant role. Even though we both have a lot of switch in us, we are both absolutely more submissive than dominant. And I know he loves it when I take control. And because I know he loves it, I love taking control. (Plus I love leaving marks on him!)

I have to admit that I have tried switching before and never found it very fulfilling. But then the person I was with was not someone I loved. The emotional connection has made all the difference in this relationship. I love him, therefore I want him to be happy. And not just a little happy. I want him to be deliriously happy!

Well, Deanna, it is somewhat concerning that you seem to express that it is your submissive nature that leads you to want to "genuinely please one another". A good dominant wants every party involved to be pleased. The difference is that the dominant enjoys the responsibility and control of topping, while the submissive does it as a way to please. In a good relationships, sub/sub, domme/sub, or domme/domme, everyone involved has to be interested in pleasing the other parties involved. If that doesn't happen, the relationship has quickly sunk into realms of exploitation and abuse. Even the cruelest sadist, if a responsible and soulful human being, is focused on keeping her slaves happy.

As for the issue at hand, negotiate. Topping, as has been mentioned above, is not necessarily domination. Topping merely means providing sensation to the bottom. If you can reassure yourself that you can be very subservient and top because you long to serve the person you love, then do it. Expect the same, because you need and deserve it. Do not be the only person topping. Your needs would be selfishly disregarded if you became the Domme or even the typical top. If you top for one session, then he owes you a session where he tops and you bottom.

No, it is not the same as being a Domme.

The other suggestions here were golden. Find a Dom/me together! You are a beautiful dynamic, an already synchronized couple who have acknowledged your submissive interests. Go poly. Love each other, protect each other, and help each other find that perfect dominant together.

Any Dominant worth his/her salt knows the frustration of dealing with a poly situation where the two or more subs are jealous and don't like each other. If you present each other together as a couple, you are offering a poly situation where the Dom/me doesn't have to worry nearly as much about the competition as s/he would if two unacquainted approached.

(in reply to cravesdom)

Post #: 39

RE: Is it possible for two subs to have a relationship? - 10/31/2008 11:46:24 AM

WidowSpiders

Posts: 37
Joined: 2/17/2007
Status: offline

As an aside, she and I can empathize with the frustration of deeply loving each other but find that because we have the same orientation, problems arise. We are both Dommes to an extreme. Being sisters, we do not find each other attractive, so that is fortunately not an issue. We have yet to find ourselves competing or disagreeing about the treatment of our slaves, but it is sometimes difficult to live with another Domme.
Ex. "You told our slaves it was ok to do what?! I thought we agree that they could only do it in the following circumstances!"
"I though we had agreed that they were in those circumstances now! What conditions did you think still needed to be met?"
"Well, I thought that there needed to be these conditions..."
"Oh, well that makes sense. I'm sorry I jumped to conclusions without verifying it with you first. Do you think we should rescind the privilege?"
"Well, what do you think? I think it's ok, given the circumstances, but I would have appreciated a little communication beforehand."
"Ok, you're right, let's talk about it some more and then bring them in to discuss the issue further..."

This is about as far as arguments have gone in our relationship. One would think that with two Dommes together, it would be absolute war, but we love each other and work hard to respect each others opinions. (It helps that we have the same genetic makeup and nearly identical experiences and ideology.)

But love takes work. If you met the perfect Dom/me, I'm sure that you would be disappointed by something or other. No relationship is perfect. Your partner can empathize with your need to submit, which is something that few Dom/mes can even comprehend. There are sacrifices and comprimises to be made.

The bottom line is that you have something beautiful. Use it to your advantage rather than mourning it. If you are both subs, then top each other so that you can better understand and appreciate each other. Do it as an act of love... and damned well expect just as much in return.

If it then behooves you, find a temporary or permanent Dominant to play with either one or both of you. Illustrate the benefits of your being a very well-educated team. Point out how far you have come with each other in your understanding of submission. Support and love each other, through the good times and the bad.

You do not have to be on opposite sides of the D/s spectrum to be good partners. You just have to be compassionate and communicative enough to see to each others' needs.

(in reply to WidowSpiders)

Post #: 40

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