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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:11:27 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Who actually are the "muslims"?  The region is made up of many different people and tribes who we know dislike one another.  They would all be better of if they could get over it, but none of the different groups have so any inclination  to do it.

Do we remember how WW I started?  Do we remember what happened when the Soviet Union released their grip on the area?  Those who don't understand history are doomed to repeat it.


You obviously are the one that doesn't pay attention or have much knowledge.  The "Muslims" consist of 1 billion people all over the world.  There is no "region" of them.  The country with the largest number of Muslim is Indonesia, which is in Oceania. 


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:12:47 AM   
kittinSol


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Slaveboy - that is like saying that the entire Western world is 'the Christians'. See how reductive and inaccurate that is?

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:22:18 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Slaveboy - that is like saying that the entire Western world is 'the Christians'. See how reductive and inaccurate that is?


I agree Kittin.  It's exactly the point I was making with Playful, when he talked about a "region" of Muslims. 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:25:59 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


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No, it wouldn't change my vote.

Frankly, I think that our government is -really- busy doing stuff it has no business meddling in, and is spending -far- too little time protecting the things that make the country what it is... like the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Judicial System, and the Separation of Church and State, and... ummm... ok, well, I think I'll stop there for now.

Let a terrorist group determine our next President -- or even where I put my vote in the general scheme of things? Nope, don't think so. If I were going to do that, I might as well just say "Shucks, turn over the country to whomever right now, because I don't give enough of a crap to stand by my beliefs and vote accordingly."


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:26:54 AM   
MistresseLotus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Hmmmm... the premise is that a McCain president would give terrorists the opportunity to rip America a new one, because his international policies would be that much more belligerent than Obama's: these people don't want to leave America alone, their intention is to hurt this country. McCain would justify terrorist actions even more - and that's what they want. See?


Thank god SOMEBODY doesn't buy into the usual Republican fear mongering to get votes.

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:28:31 AM   
MistresseLotus


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..,.. Well, my dog has it on good authority from my cat.. that........

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:28:56 AM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Slaveboy - that is like saying that the entire Western world is 'the Christians'. See how reductive and inaccurate that is?


I agree Kittin.  It's exactly the point I was making with Playful, when he talked about a "region" of Muslims. 


Then you might try reading comprehension, because you glossed over several things.  I was talking directly with Sanity, you snipped a piece out.  The region we were talking about was Iraq and the surrounding area.  He referenced everyone as the "muslims".    I pointed out the region was made up of many different people and who did he mean by the "muslims".

Let's not pull pieces out of context.

K

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:32:54 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:

Then you might try reading comprehension, because you glossed over several things.  I was talking directly with Sanity, you snipped a piece out.  The region we were talking about was Iraq and the surrounding area.  He referenced everyone as the "muslims".    I pointed out the region was made up of many different people and who did he mean by the "muslims".

Let's not pull pieces out of context.


You were referring to Iraq?  Why did you ask:

quote:

Do we remember what happened when the Soviet Union released their grip on the area? 


The Soviets never had a grip on Iraq. 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:36:57 AM   
HunterS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AMaster

No, because Mc Cane it the only choice.  With everything going on in the world, it is no time to get someone with no experience to lead.  Remember Carter?



The only things that "Ace" McCain has experience at is being a liar,cheat,thief, pimp and trator.  These are character traits he proudly claims in his autobiography "Faith of My Fathers".  They call him "Ace" because he destroyed five aircraft while in the Navy.  The fact that they all belonged to the U.S. Navy  may be why the Vietnamese wanted to give him back as soon as they captured him.  They figgured he was a greater asset to them flying than sitting in a pow camp.
Please,before you burden me with the "but he was tortured" excuse list for me how many others signed confessions while being tortured.  Strange he can only come up with two people who were at the Hanoi Hilton who will vouch for him...(both of whom work for his father in law).
What is it about Carter that you find so offensive?
H.

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:40:29 AM   
popeye1250


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Well, seeing as al qeada looks for weaknesses to exploit like pourous borders and unsecured ports...
I think the advantage in this area would surely go to McCain.
If you were Bin Laden who would you rather see as president, someone who wants to "talk" with our enemies or someone who'd put a dozen hellfire missiles up your ass if they had the chance?

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:41:03 AM   
Steponme73


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Obama talks like he might be tough...but if you read his book and his views on Muslims, I wonder.  I think he would back off the tough talk and let them get away with anything.  He may claim to not be Muslim, but I believe his heart is with them.

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:43:59 AM   
kittinSol


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Abysmal. No further comment. 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:46:49 AM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Then you might try reading comprehension, because you glossed over several things.  I was talking directly with Sanity, you snipped a piece out.  The region we were talking about was Iraq and the surrounding area.  He referenced everyone as the "muslims".    I pointed out the region was made up of many different people and who did he mean by the "muslims".

Let's not pull pieces out of context.


You were referring to Iraq?  Why did you ask:

quote:

Do we remember what happened when the Soviet Union released their grip on the area? 


The Soviets never had a grip on Iraq. 


Again, reading comprehension is your friend.  Try reading not skimming.  You are way off on what was written, not even in the ball park.

K

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:48:01 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

If you were Bin Laden who would you rather see as president, someone who wants to "talk" with our enemies or someone who'd put a dozen hellfire missiles up your ass if they had the chance?


.........good question. Bin Laden is more afraid of the former than the latter. The latter plays into his hands, helping him recruit more terrorists; the former does not, and has the capacity to prevent the recruitment of new terrorists. In this sort of conflict overwhelming force simply does not work. You're Irish Popeye.......what stopped the conflict in Ulster? An escalation of the violence or negotiation?

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:48:46 AM   
Lucylastic


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:50:01 AM   
kittinSol


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Here, a warm compress for your forehead, Lucy babe :-) . 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 11:50:17 AM   
noonnap


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yes i would. right now i am casting my vote for willie nelson. if there were an attack of some kind i would vote obama just in case some wackaloon changed his vote to mccain.

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 12:00:56 PM   
Sanity


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What do you suppose it took for me to get Obama to make that video I linked to in order for me to "misrepresent" him like that. What do you think I had to bribe ABC News to put that news article up that I linked to...

Oh, don't bother to reply, I already know your answer to that  

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

"Obama and Biden are already talking about invading Pakistan "<------Sanity

I see you are up to misrepresenting the facts again....It must must really piss you off to watch the demise of your candidate.
An incursion into Pakistan to take out Bin Laden, if possible and if the Pakistanis can't or won't, is not tantamount to the mess your right wing water boarders have perpetrated on the American public and that we are still paying for.
But hey, what's 10 billion a month among such good people as us?



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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 12:15:07 PM   
BlackPhx


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Having waded through all the the posts so far..I of course, as usual do have a couple of things to say.

First my answer. No I would not change my vote in fact it would be very difficult as I am early voting tomorrow morning.

Why would my vote not change? It is a very simple answer and is in response to the ad campaign based on Bidens words.
No ONE until they have sat in the Presidents Seat can predict  how they would respond to any rising situation until it happens.  They can say how they THINK they will react but the truth is, until you are standing in the middle of a burning building, all the drop and crawl practice in the world isn't going to tell you whether you will remember it, or panic.

McCain as a former military man and POW may LIKE to think that he would respond swiftly and properly, but neither he nor we know whether he will respond from anger, revenge, fear, outrage or anything else. PTSD has a nasty habit of flaring at inopportune moments. He may also stay calm and in control, until a situation happens it is impossible to know. He has change his position on many things over the length of this campaign, but some of the things said and done in his name have left a bad taste not only in my mouth but of many I know.

Obama presents as a reasonable man of peace, but then again that is no proof that the man does not have a spine of steel, the calm to see through the panic of a situation and the intelligence to form a swift response as well as the will to execute it. I do like that he listens and does not smirk, considers what the other person has to say before responding and while consistent is flexible enough to change his position IF facts are revealed that make it evident it needs to be done. I suspect only Ghandi would not stand and fight when his country and people are attacked..and Obama is not Ghandi.

That every President since George Washington has been hit with some crisis within the first 6 months in office is no surprise, why would it be one now? GW was handed the office and the bill for the Revolutionary War, Lincoln the problems leading to the Civil War, and so on and so forth. It is not a peaceful office that one steps into when one is elected President. It bears a burden that most of us can only imagine, for not only are the eyes of those who voted for you watching, but those who didn't, those who envy you as well as those who love you, and the rest of the World, as well. Each person who speaks with you will have their own agenda, and desires, and you will need to weigh carefully the needs of the many over the needs of the few (to paraphase Mr. Spock). That chair in the Oval Office is not an easy one to sit in. It will take a calm and reasoned mind these days to lead this nation.

I am reminded of a Movie called the American President (1995) when I watch the current debates and ads...most especially when I hear sound bites from Palin..and I quote (for any who actually read what I write):

"America isn't easy. America is advanced citizenship. You gotta want it bad, 'cause it's gonna put up a fight. It's gonna say "You want free speech? Let's see you acknowledge a man whose words make your blood boil, who's standing center stage and advocating at the top of his lungs that which you would spend a lifetime opposing at the top of yours. You want to claim this land as the land of the free? Then the symbol of your country can't just be a flag; the symbol also has to be one of its citizens exercising his right to burn that flag in protest. Show me that, defend that, celebrate that in your classrooms. Then, you can stand up and sing about the "land of the free". I've known Bob Rumson for years, and I've been operating under the assumption that the reason Bob devotes so much time and energy to shouting at the rain was that he simply didn't get it. Well, I was wrong. Bob's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Bob's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character..." You can read the rest here if interested  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112346/quotes, the rest isn't really relevant as it is focused on the movies plot..

I wish electoral campaigns didn't deteriorate to this type of thing..but oddly enough it did help me make up my mind after reading the plans on both sides of the fence, and a lot of it is in that quote above.

So no..my vote doesn't change..I will vote always for level heads, a willingness to work with others no matter who they are to find a common ground and allow for peace while still keeping their hand on the stick if needed and the person who remembers we are ALL Real  Americans, who is willing to work for it, cause America, aint easy, and to BE an American  is to not only stand for my rights and be willing to fight for them but to be willing to fight for yours as well, even when we don't agree. Hopefully the President is leading that charge to protect our rights, not the charge to whittle away at those rights in response to fear. No one has ever changed someone's mind by hitting them or killing them, but you can open a LOT of minds if you are willing to talk and listen.

poenkitten

< Message edited by BlackPhx -- 10/22/2008 12:28:29 PM >

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 12:27:49 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What do you suppose it took for me to get Obama to make that video I linked to in order for me to "misrepresent" him like that. What do you think I had to bribe ABC News to put that news article up that I linked to...

Oh, don't bother to reply, I already know your answer to that  

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

"Obama and Biden are already talking about invading Pakistan "<------Sanity

I see you are up to misrepresenting the facts again....It must must really piss you off to watch the demise of your candidate.
An incursion into Pakistan to take out Bin Laden, if possible and if the Pakistanis can't or won't, is not tantamount to the mess your right wing water boarders have perpetrated on the American public and that we are still paying for.
But hey, what's 10 billion a month among such good people as us?




Ok, You show one place in the video where he mentioned "invading" Pakistan.  We invaded Iraq.  What he said was if they had intelligence that warranted it and Pakistan wouldn't act that he would authorize a military strike on that target.  That is a long way from an invasion.  Remember it was W that said we would attack at terrorist no matter where they were and if a country let terrorist operate from their land then they were guilty as well.  Of course that was before W decided he needed Musharraf and decided to overlook the fact that he took over Pakistan in a miltary coup and declared himself president.  So much for spreading democracy.

Now are you saying that if the US had evidence of terrorist leaders hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, You would be against taking them out?  Are you also aware that there are reports that we have already conducted strikes across the border?

K

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