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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 12:58:25 PM   
Real_Trouble


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quote:

Now are you saying that if the US had evidence of terrorist leaders hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, You would be against taking them out?  Are you also aware that there are reports that we have already conducted strikes across the border?


Yes, actually, I would be, just for future reference - I question the effectiveness of this tactic, given our past experiences with firing missiles into Pakistan; the longer we fixate on the wrong enemies, the longer we play directly into their hands.  Why are we not addressing the major issues existing in the Afghani government we are supposedly supporting?  Why are we not attempting to build a legitimate state in Afghanistan and reinforce a genuine one in Pakistan so that the people of those nations will force the terrorists out themselves?

You cannot crush a terrorist organization when the populace is sympathetic to them.  Without understanding why the populace is sympathetic to them, we cannot effectively control the situation.  What we really need is a continuing two-part strategy of crushing terrorist cells wherever we identify them, harassing their operations wherever possible (this does not include targeted strikes in foreign nations, necessarily, that often produce unrelated casualties), and then attempting to address the underlying issues that lead to radicalization and the ability of a population to side with terrorist organizations.

Do you think Al'Qaida or the Taliban would have a foothold in Afghanistan or Pakistan if the legitimate governments there were providing a stable, non-corrupt (at least for the most part), functional governmental system that addressed their basic needs and security concerns?

Radicalism works best in the face of tyrannical, corrupt, or incompetent governance.  There was a reason the communist revolution hit Tzarist Russia and not, say, England.


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 1:00:40 PM   
justgemmie


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No, my vote would not change.  I have far more confidence of Senator McCain's ability to handle a crisis than in Senator Obama.

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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 1:36:57 PM   
Sanity


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It was the ABC news article that I linked to in which Joe Biden is quoted saying he would favor invading Pakistan in the event their government were to fail. In the video I linked to, Obama "warns" Pakistan that we would attack any terrorists within their border with or without their permission, which is a position that is fine by me but a position that runs counter to the reason TNstepsout gave in the post that my post was in response to for supporting Senator Obama in which she said:

quote:

No, if anything it would strengthen my position. I would worry if McCain had to deal with a terrorist attack we'd end up in another war with a completely unrelated country. Maybe somewhere I'd really like to visit someday like Ireland. That would suck. .



So in other words, you're ignoring the context of collarchat posts for whatever reason, and are drawing wild unsupported conclusions.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne
Ok, You show one place in the video where he mentioned "invading" Pakistan.  We invaded Iraq.  What he said was if they had intelligence that warranted it and Pakistan wouldn't act that he would authorize a military strike on that target.  That is a long way from an invasion.  Remember it was W that said we would attack at terrorist no matter where they were and if a country let terrorist operate from their land then they were guilty as well.  Of course that was before W decided he needed Musharraf and decided to overlook the fact that he took over Pakistan in a miltary coup and declared himself president.  So much for spreading democracy.

Now are you saying that if the US had evidence of terrorist leaders hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, You would be against taking them out?  Are you also aware that there are reports that we have already conducted strikes across the border?

K



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Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 1:39:30 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Wild unsupported conclusions....did you just say that Sanity......

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 1:55:45 PM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Obama and Biden are already talking about invading Pakistan (if they're elected) even without another terrorist attack - so maybe you should consider switching your vote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw2XTC1V4fk&feature=related
quote:
Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., thinks the United States needs a stepped-up presence in Pakistan, and the presidential candidate tells ABC News' George Stephanopoulos that if terrorists were to eliminate Pakistani President Perez Musharraf, he would "probably" go in to secure Pakistan's nuclear arsenal if he were president.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3755678&page=1



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
What do you suppose it took for me to get Obama to make that video I linked to in order for me to "misrepresent" him like that. What do you think I had to bribe ABC News to put that news article up that I linked to...


How did I take you out of context?  You stated in the video Obama talked about  "invading" Pakistan.  I asked you where exactly in the video that was.  Now you want to state you were taken out of context because you know that he never said anything about :"invading" Pakistan in the video. 

Biden didn't say anything about "invading" Pakistan either and you know it that is why you are getting so defensive. 
You also decided to ignore this question

quote:

ORIGINAL: PlayfulOne
Now are you saying that if the US had evidence of terrorist leaders hiding in the mountains of Pakistan, You would be against taking them out?  Are you also aware that there are reports that we have already conducted strikes across the border?


Did you not say the video showed Obama saying he would "invade" Pakistain?

K

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 2:08:08 PM   
Sanity


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How do you suppose Joe Biden is going to secure Pakistan's nuclear arsenal without invading Pakistan...

And there's this:

quote:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080101233.html


Google is your friend, you know. Use it once in a while.


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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 2:09:35 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I apologize. I meant to add in the 'why or why not' portion and had to go to edit since I hit the button too fast, then had some computer trouble and had to reboot before I could come back and get the edit done, thank you for the two responses and if you care to answer as to why or why not, I'd love to read it. :)


If someone wants to attack us for our long term policies that they disagree with (as in bin Laden) I do not think it matters a hill of beans who is in the White House. And to be honest, it did not matter that Dubya was in there, we were still attacked on 911. That is the ironic thing, Bush is given credit for being "safer" for national security but it was under his watch that we were attacked.

Beyond all that, I believe that Obama will do more to institute policies that will keep us safe over the long run than McCain who wants to bomb people out of their disagreements with us

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 2:23:12 PM   
Slavehandsome


Posts: 382
Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline 		The very idea that someone would start this post is disgusting.  As if to say "please attack us again so we'll all be afraid into voting for McCain." Osama is STILL funded by the CIA, and there is more False Flag activity happening now than there ever has been.  They have declassified documents that show that Johnson and McNamara staged the Gulf Of Tonkin event as a False Flag excuse to mobilize the troops to Vietnam.  Every terrorist activity that happens anywhere, are False Flag activities directed at giving a reason to mobilize the military machine.  A lack of any such activity would warrant our military having their budget cut.  Don't fool yourselves to believe that a guy in a cave could outfox the finest weapons and intelligence operations ever in the history of this planet.  Check out www.infowars.com and share this with other taxpayers you encounter at the office, church or nightspots.  Heil Bush!


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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 2:27:33 PM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		Apparently google is your enemy.

Why won't you answer the question, you said Obama talked about "invading" Pakistan.  Where is that in the video?  You said it was there.  Where is it?

The article says the same thing again.  No where has he ever said anything about "invading" Pakistain.  Iraq was an invasion. 

Biden didn't say anything about "invading" Pakistan either.  He spoke about securing the nuclear weapons if something should happen. 

I will ask this again since you seem to not want to answer it either.  If something happened to the government in Pakistan, do you want to be guessing where the nuclear weapons may be?There are many in Pakistan who are not our friend and support the militants.  Why would you think they would be safe with the army?  Remeber Musarreff was an army general beroe the coupe.

K

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 2:55:38 PM   
Sanity


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What do those words mean to you. Despite all your spin, that's an invasion.   


quote:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists.


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 3:49:09 PM   
slaveboyforyou


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quote:


Again, reading comprehension is your friend.  Try reading not skimming.  You are way off on what was written, not even in the ball park.


No, I read what you wrote just fine.  Judging by your writing skills, I don't think you need to be lecturing anyone on reading comprehension. 

You made several claims that were absolutely false (like the Soviets controlling Iraq) and now you want to pretend you didn't make them.  Nice try, but it won't work with me. 

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Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 3:58:40 PM   
PlayfulOne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


What do those words mean to you. Despite all your spin, that's an invasion.   


quote:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama issued a pointed warning yesterday to Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, saying that as president he would be prepared to order U.S. troops into that country unilaterally if it failed to act on its own against Islamic extremists.



Make it what you want.  He has several times talked about "strikes" into Pakistan, Not an "invasion" like Iraq.


You are really good at ignoring and avoiding questions, did you pick that up from watching the Palin express?

K

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 4:12:19 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

However, there has not been a second attack on US soil (which is reported, at least, to have been in the planning and preparation stage) and the knucklehead got into office twice (thanks, i understand the questions regarding the 2000 election).


I am always truly amazed to hear anyone say this.

Bush has his head up his ass for his first 8 months in office, ignores a briefing memo saying Bin Laden is determined to strike inside the U.S., and has an attack which cost more American lives than Pearl Harbor occur on his watch.

Then the politicians spin that to make him appear a hero because it has not happened again and people buy it.

Truly amazing. 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 4:19:51 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Bush had only been in office 8 months on September 11, 2001.  


Only?

Do you think if you got hired for a job and couldn't quite get up to speed in 8 months that you would still have a job?

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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 4:26:00 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slavehandsome

The very idea that someone would start this post is disgusting.  As if to say "please attack us again so we'll all be afraid into voting for McCain."


I started this post because it's news and has to do with current events. It's pertinent and timely and given the number of responses to it, obviously something that is interesting to people. As I will not be voting for McCain, your premise as to my motivations for starting this thread is, obviously, false.

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 5:01:19 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Well, seeing as al qeada looks for weaknesses to exploit like pourous borders and unsecured ports...
I think the advantage in this area would surely go to McCain.
If you were Bin Laden who would you rather see as president, someone who wants to "talk" with our enemies or someone who'd put a dozen hellfire missiles up your ass if they had the chance?


Then why are our borders porous and our ports unsecured 7 years after 9/11 with the tough-talkin', always-ready -for-a-fight  Texas cowboy in office? 

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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 5:08:47 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

The republicans have spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "homeland security." In the last seven years, all they have accomplished is doubling the size of the federal government, and creating a "security sheild" indistinguishable from a block of swiss cheese.



Actually, I consider their major accomplishment to be assigning colors to threat levels.  But after they announce the color, they always explain what it means.

They also failed to block Richard Reid from destroying a US plane.  The passengers and crew were fortunately able to stop him.


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RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 5:47:21 PM   
HunterS


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quote:


Cuba got "change" - in 1959!


Are you suggesting that that is a bad thing?
Do you have any idea what life in Cuba was like under Batista?
Under Castro:
Cuba has 100% literacy the USA does not.
Cuba has free high quality medical care for all of its citizens and all who visit Cuba the USA does not.
Cuba has free direct elections the USA does not.
Hunter

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Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 5:48:45 PM   
kittinSol


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Would Terror attack change your vote? - 10/22/2008 6:19:26 PM   
HunterS


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quote:


Radicalism works best in the face of tyrannical, corrupt, or incompetent governance.  There was a reason the communist revolution hit Tzarist Russia and not, say, England



When I took history I was taught that a radical revolution...(Monarchy replaced by a representative Republic) did occure in England.... the colonies were part of England and the revolutionaries were English citizens commiting treason against the legally constituted government.  Those revolutionaries now call themselves the United States of America.
Perhaps they no longer teach that in school.  It has been a while since I was in school.
Hunter

< Message edited by HunterS -- 10/22/2008 6:22:26 PM >

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 120
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