RE: Gay marriage

RE: Gay marriage (Full Version)

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SoulPiercer -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 3:11:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd quote: ORIGINAL: Simpleslave101 Well..in the end we will all be so PC you can't voice an opinion w/o being stoned to death. OOPS did I doth offend someone? I am pretty sure we will all be one similar color and the idea of the "typical" marriage will be outdated. We will all melt into a single race and everyone will have that long lost Uncle that was one of them..ssshhhhh...."racist". So lets all join hands and sing coum-by-ya and don't you dare bat an eye at Biff and Jeffy or Janet and Annette for holding hands now. Now run along and eat your Tofu. wow I dont even like tofu. just like I dont bat an eye at Sally and Ted nor should Biff and Jeffy get flack for being a couple. Nor should Shawniqua and Billy Bob. I thought as a society were are trying to evolve... not be dragged back into some po-dunk theocratcy. Why dont we leave that to Iran shall we? And just in case you didnt notice.. we are One Race. The Human Race. Doesnt it just scare you that there might have been one in the wood pile a bit back in your history? We have so intermingled the races for years and years I do not believe it is possible to say we are 100% anything. esp here in the US. We are all in the Human Race the cesspool that has become... for better or worse. Some people should only be able to wallow at the shallow end of it if they forcefuly chose not to bloody well evolve. Gwyn Right on Gwyn! There is more than story of white guy divorcing wife after she gave birth to a black baby - only to discover through DNA Testing that Jimmy Billy Bob had some niggra in his blood. Personally - I'm all for gay marriage. However, I'm also for insurance companies extending benefits to "opposite sex partners", afterall .. I know I could get married to make sure my "significant other" has health insurance, but what if we don't believe in the concept of marriage? As to the definition of the word "marriage" - Let's start with the word gay. Didn't that mean "happy" at one time? Wasn't the word faggot a pile of sticks long before it was given another meaning? My point is - words are given new meanings everyday, just like new words are made up. If they can put LMFAO in a dictionary, and scientists can decide Pluto is no longer a planet, they can change the definition of the word marriage. The concept will still be special, and there will always be those of us who try to talk both heterosexual friends and gay/lesbian friends from marrying that loser.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 3:32:59 AM)
ok.. my crush on you just got bigger. LOL We really have no idea what is in our blood that hasnt been reported. Only the offical records exist. Many times it was left out if you laid down with someone outside of your race. I was joking with a nurse who was doing my blood work. A lovely and funny as hell black woman~ about how damn white my last baby came out. ( she went out into the lobby and looked at him even) I am Cherokee... but I am a dark little thing usualy when not pregnant. My first um popped out almost translucent white. If it had not been me watching him come out I would have never guessed he was mine. She and I hope this one comming up will not be so glaringly white.. and look more like his mama. But I will love the lil booger even if he pops out purple with green poka dots. She had the same thing in reverse happen to her. Her and her husband are both very dark.. but somewhere a ressesive whiteness came out in her little boy. He even has Grey eyes, and light colored hair. She had some serious explaining to do with her husband.. and they ordered a dna test ( so he would shut up) It was all theirs. The same goes for Gay parents raising gay kids... the silliness is straight folk dont always raise straight kids. Nor do Gays raise only gay kids. People hide their bias, and intolerance by claiming oh dont be so PC.. or the books say... What crap. Just about all of us have other races in our blood.. and just about all of us have that secretly gay old spinster aunt or uncle. We just need to deal with it. Gwyn

LaTigresse -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 3:54:38 AM)
I gave up arguing this point years ago. I only hope that every straight person that has so vehemently opposed gays and gay rights never has a gay child. I love my children so much I cannot imagine how awful it would be if one of them disappeared from my life except for the occasional uncomfortable holiday, because they felt they needed to move thousands of miles away to be themself, gay. Or to get the phone call that my, married with children son, has shot himself.....because he was that miserable and tired of living a life pretending to be straight and saw no other way out. Neither race nor gender has ever been a factor for love in my home. I always wanted my kids to feel free to love and be loved, whatever that ended up being for them. Right now my 29 yo son is dating a 39 yo hispanic woman. It wouldn't matter to me if it was a 45 yo green with purple spotted man, as long as than man was better to him than the cute little blonde female that he was married to. I've seen enough really shitty hetro marriages to laugh when people say that gay marriage will somehow make hetro marriage "less special". Oh really?!?!? Honestly, straight people fucked that one over well enough a very long time ago. Tell me another one please, I do so love to laugh.

LaTigresse -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:08:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SoulPiercer quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd quote: ORIGINAL: Simpleslave101 Well..in the end we will all be so PC you can't voice an opinion w/o being stoned to death. OOPS did I doth offend someone? I am pretty sure we will all be one similar color and the idea of the "typical" marriage will be outdated. We will all melt into a single race and everyone will have that long lost Uncle that was one of them..ssshhhhh...."racist". So lets all join hands and sing coum-by-ya and don't you dare bat an eye at Biff and Jeffy or Janet and Annette for holding hands now. Now run along and eat your Tofu. wow I dont even like tofu. just like I dont bat an eye at Sally and Ted nor should Biff and Jeffy get flack for being a couple. Nor should Shawniqua and Billy Bob. I thought as a society were are trying to evolve... not be dragged back into some po-dunk theocratcy. Why dont we leave that to Iran shall we? And just in case you didnt notice.. we are One Race. The Human Race. Doesnt it just scare you that there might have been one in the wood pile a bit back in your history? We have so intermingled the races for years and years I do not believe it is possible to say we are 100% anything. esp here in the US. We are all in the Human Race the cesspool that has become... for better or worse. Some people should only be able to wallow at the shallow end of it if they forcefuly chose not to bloody well evolve. Gwyn Right on Gwyn! There is more than story of white guy divorcing wife after she gave birth to a black baby - only to discover through DNA Testing that Jimmy Billy Bob had some niggra in his blood. Personally - I'm all for gay marriage. However, I'm also for insurance companies extending benefits to "opposite sex partners", afterall .. I know I could get married to make sure my "significant other" has health insurance, but what if we don't believe in the concept of marriage? As to the definition of the word "marriage" - Let's start with the word gay. Didn't that mean "happy" at one time? Wasn't the word faggot a pile of sticks long before it was given another meaning? My point is - words are given new meanings everyday, just like new words are made up. If they can put LMFAO in a dictionary, and scientists can decide Pluto is no longer a planet, they can change the definition of the word marriage. The concept will still be special, and there will always be those of us who try to talk both heterosexual friends and gay/lesbian friends from marrying that loser. Funny about the DNA thing. I volunteered for a DNA at the University of Iowa because I thought it would be cool to trace my DNA path, find out if there were any interesting surprises in my family tree. When they were going through the paperwork with me and asking me questions they talked about the "risks" of bringing DNA to light. My first thought was, well I am pretty sure I am my father's daughter by looking in the mirror. The resemblance is that strong. Then I thought of disease profiling and how some people don't want to know. Well, I am one of those people that would rather know what I am up against so I can deal. Next question. Then she said that some people don't like finding out that they are either related to someone terrible, a horrible criminal or what have you. I think that might add a little interest to what I always saw as a pretty boring family tree. And it's not like I am going to start whacking people just because I find out that I am related to The Ice Man. And then she brought up race, that some people get really freaked out to find out that their family was not as caucasian as they were led to believe. I really was flabbergasted that anyone would #1 care, #2 assume otherwise. I just go into that with the assumption that regardless of what shade of beige my butt is, there is a hobjobble of various racial bloodlines coursing through it. It seems to me that human beings have been around too long to even dream of being purely one specific anything. So, I am really hoping that I do get chosen for this DNA thing and get the free map of my genetic history. It is very exciting I think.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:10:08 AM)
Ya know I never understood how parents could turn away from and actively hate their gay children. My ex- Sophie's paernets stopped telling her that they loved her the moment she came out. She went to being the one the family didnt speak of... the one who was disinvited to family functions. Her mother stopped calling her, and even wanting to speak to her.. other then to lecture her, and tell her she was going to hell. When she was homeless they refused to take her in or to help. She was told that she should not hang out with "those people" Her mother also didnt tell her when her father became ill and was going in for surgerys. I can not fathom how people who are part of a religion of a loving god could turn away like that from their own flesh and blood. Hell these people converted to southern baptist because their Presb. church was not strict enough for their liking. I hope there is a special part of hell for people like this. Gwyn

LaTigresse -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:14:27 AM)
Gwyn, since I don't really believe in a heaven or hell like most "good christians" I have to believe they are living their hell. I know it would be for me. Or, just maybe, their next life will be lived as the child of that hateful cold parent.

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:14:35 AM)
very cool about the dna testing. I would love to have mine done. I know we have all sorts of interesting things in ours. Gwyn

Gwynvyd -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:20:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Gwyn, since I don't really believe in a heaven or hell like most "good christians" I have to believe they are living their hell. I know it would be for me. Or, just maybe, their next life will be lived as the child of that hateful cold parent. I do not believe in the traditonal heaven and hell.. I think we create our own... However the idea of them getting back what they have been given is apealing. But it would not change a thing. They with their dispostions would grow up to be the same bitter assholes they are now. I just wish people like that would see the hurt they cause. Her mother tells her the hurt and depresson is good for her.. it makes her face reality. just shakes her head Gwyn

Irishknight -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:41:28 AM)
Since the term marriage has not always referred to one man and one woman, defining it so is incorrect. Telling gays that they have to use a different word is telling them that they are not as good as heterosexuals. That is nothing but bigotry. Wrap a turd in pretty paper and bows and it is still shit.

JohnnyCanuck -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 4:59:04 AM)
Would it be too much to ask those who predict doom and gloom should America ever permit gay marriage to cite some evidence of doom and gloom currently occurring in Canada? We've had gay marriage for a few years: there has been no spike in divorce, no lack of marriage. I've yet to hear any straight person say the love they feel for their spouse has been reduced as a direct result of allowing gays to marry. While Kirata argues that this is just a conspiracy of gays to get in the face of straight people, he has yet to demonstrate that the courts are in cahoots when rendering these decisions (the ones in Canada that opened the way for gay marriage). Am I to believe all our superior courts are filled with closet gay judges? As much as Kirata argues the precedent of tradition, I have to conclude there was an over-riding human right involved for all those precedents and tradition to be tossed out. Unlike Kirata I do not believe the courts reverse such things on a whim. For example, the SCOTUS that ruled in the Dred Scott case not only affirmed the institution of slavery throughout the United States, but declared non-whites were never considered citizens or a free-people by the founding fathers. Were we arguing back them Kirata would be perfectly within his rights to argue that tradition and precedent not only argued against the liberation of blacks and an end to slavery, but that tradition and precedent argued against the mixing of the races. Arguing precedent and tradition is not an argument of logic. It is an argument that perpetuates the injustices of the past. If you want to argue that gay marriage will bring down civilization as we know it, you ought to be able to point to evidence of direct cause-and-effect in Canadian society. The lack of such evidence demonstrates a flaw in the argument, n'est pas?

GreedyTop -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 5:49:07 AM)
For Kirata, since he seemed to miss it the first time: quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop noun1. the state of being a married couple voluntarily joined for life (or until divorce); "a long and happy marriage"; "God bless this union" 2. two people who are married to each other; "his second marriage was happier than the first"; "a married couple without love" 3. the act of marrying; the nuptial ceremony; "their marriage was conducted in the chapel" 4. a close and intimate union; "the marriage of music and dance"; "a marriage of ideas" I see no mention here of marriage being restricted to ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN.

kittinSol -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:01:20 AM)
Kirata believes that gays demand equal rights with regards to marriage purely to piss off the heterosexuals [8\|] .

Aynne88 -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:06:45 AM)
Simple, Your name suits you. Realllyyy well. Kirata can I come over to Gorean boards today and throw some thoughts around on gay marriage oh please may I Master? Jaysus....[8\|] te]ORIGINAL: Simpleslave101 Well..in the end we will all be so PC you can't voice an opinion w/o being stoned to death. OOPS did I doth offend someone? I am pretty sure we will all be one similar color and the idea of the "typical" marriage will be outdated. We will all melt into a single race and everyone will have that long lost Uncle that was one of them..ssshhhhh...."racist". So lets all join hands and sing coum-by-ya and don't you dare bat an eye at Biff and Jeffy or Janet and Annette for holding hands now. Now run along and eat your Tofu. [/quote]

ladyserenablue -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:13:45 AM)
I think everyone who is over 18 and wants to get hitched, should be allowed to have a universally recognized civil union (with all the legal benefits) with any other legally single (never, divorced or widowed) person they wish. But just one--at a time. All they need to get a unionship license is a blood test (no health surprises), and a certificate declaring they took a course in which they had emotional counseling, financial testing and (if they want kids) parental training. If they want to get married, the couple can go to a church of their choice (that will allow them) and have a ceremony. But it would not be required in order to be recognized as joined partners, only a filed unionship license.

tsatske -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:18:49 AM)
On parent's of Gay children - from the mother of a deeply beloved bi-sexual and Trans child (and, no, i don't keep up a pic of my boys on CM. that would seem a bit non-consentual to me. Although, since I have never seen him enfeme, there are sometimes pics on here of TVs that make me do a double take.) I can't imagine anything that would affect the way i feel about any of my children. My son came out to me on his 21rst birthday. After he told me he was bi (since he knows i am bi, he was pretty sure I would be good with that), he hemmed and hawwed and obvoiusly had trouble telling me, 'something else'. My heart stopped. My mind was racing - what in the world could one of MY children want to tell me that he would be scared to tell me? It occured to me that he was going to tell me he was a pedophile - a 'girl lover' or a 'boy lover' - i really could think of nothing else that would be hard for him to tell ME. I said, 'you know there is nothing you could ever say or do that would make me love you any less', and he just said, 'Oh, I know THAT.' He was afraid to tell me He was TS, because he was afraid my image of TS would be based on my brother (who, in addition to being trans, is just flipping nuts). I said, 'Dear, I am active enough in the alternative community to have trans friends, and none of them are crazy like your Uncle.' He laughed and said, 'Yea, I should have thought of that.' Master's mother has decided I am unwelcome in her home. I didn't do anything but fuck her son (and, no, not in front of her - we didn't even send her pictures) - but I am 'that slut'. <shrug> sie la vie. But when she was yelling this at him, I stood there listening to her, tell her son she didn't care if she never saw him again - i did not endear myself to her. WHen she turned to me and said, 'Do you have something to say to me?' I said, 'Yes, i do. You have raised two fine sons. I raised three fine sons myself. I can imagine absolutely nothing that would make me tell them I didn't want them in my life. I think you are making a mistake.' Of course, it was not so much a mistake, as it was drama - as long as i don't come around, she does still want to see him. But I can't imagine saying those words to my sons. As I told Master - if one of them was on death row for being a mass murderer, and I felt pretty damn sure he did it - I would visit him every visiting day. I told Master, about it being all drama from the DMIL, - she is making a bet. She is betting, first, that guilt will control you, and, second, if that does not work, that she will go before you, as is the order of nature in this world, and you will feel guilty when she is gone if you did not keep a relationship open with her (which I told him he should do, definatly) But, as someone who has lost a child, I can tell you - the odds are on her being right on her bet. But there is no guarentee. Life does not come with a gaurentee. Sometimes you forget to hug your adult child goodbye before they leave the house to go to work - they will be back in 4 or 5 hours, anyway - and they make it a mile down the road, then step off our planet. I just last month went home to Indiana for the funeral of a cousin who did that same damn thing. I hate Indiana roads. My mother has a ratehr conflicted relationship with one of my sisters - the one she lives with. And I have told her, point blank, several times - fix your relationship with T. I have said, 'Mom, if you lose any one of your girls, it will be devastating. But if you lose T, it will kill you, because your relationship with her is not right.' My family is about half fundementalist, and I am out to them. The only stress is that one of my sisters will not let me take my niece and nephew out anywhere - but I am welcome in her house, spend the night with her, we call each other regularly. There are family members much more 'challanging' than I, and none have ever been told that they are unwelcome by family. My mother gets mad when I use this quote, but, as Robert Frost said, 'Home is where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in.' I just can not imagine chosing not to speak to one of my children. Where do these people COME from?

kittinSol -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:18:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ladyserenablue I think everyone who is over 18 and wants to get hitched, should be allowed to have a universally recognized civil union (with all the legal benefits) with any other legally single (never, divorced or widowed) person they wish. But just one--at a time. All they need to get a unionship license is a blood test (no health surprises), and a certificate declaring they took a course in which they had emotional counseling, financial testing and (if they want kids) parental training. If they want to get married, the couple can go to a church of their choice (that will allow them) and have a ceremony. But it would not be required in order to be recognized as joined partners, only a filed unionship license. How did you come up with such a morally upright, generous plan [&:]?

beargonewild -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:33:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop why shouldn't gays be allowed to call their union a marriage? If the word marriage refers to the union of a man and a woman, as it has always done, it seems patently obvious why the union of a man and a man, or the union of a woman and woman, would not properly be called a "marriage". That doesn't mean gays shouldn't be allowed to establish a legal union. But why do they have to insist on re-defining the language in the process? Why do they have to insist that their unions be called by the same word that heterosexuals use to denote the union of a male and a female? This crap isn't about gay unions, or even about rights. It's just about getting in the heterosexual community's face and offending it as much as possible. K. Kirata, would you please elaborate on why you feel that a gay couple should not be allowed to refer to their union as a "marriage?" You also have to fully realize that language is constantly evolving all the time. All one has to do is compare the dictionary of today to one from 5, 10 or eben 15 years ago and you will see how words have been redefined and/or changed in meaning. You would be quite surprised that the majority of the LGBT community do not care to get in the face of our straight counterparts but simply co-exist among our fellow human beings. Most of us simply want to lead a life with our lover/partner/spouse in relative simplicity in pretty much the same way our straight counterparts do. I do fully admit that yes, there are a group in the gay community who are militant, in your face types who use that approach to foward their cause. Yet this is also true in the straight community and the best example are the Right For Life group. They have among their ranks militant members who picket clinic, are extremists who will will use whatever means necessary to support their cause. The same is also true of every group on this planet who are fighting for a cause they believe is right. Like I had stated in a prior post of mine, we simply want the same right to marry and priveledges granted to us that the heterosexual community automatically take for granted. This does NOT mean special treatment nor does it mean we want to be treated special and above all others, it means we want to be treated fairly and equal. Yrt I still fail to see and comphrehend how my actually marrying another man will offend the straight community. I can see how some people are morally repuled by the fact that I have sex with men. Yet it just takes a little more tolerance to accept the fact that I am gay, queer, homosexual or what ever term another may call me, even if you don't approve. To state that gays are offending to you (general you) because we are fighting to be treated equal to the majority is as bad as saying that Matthew Sheppard or Harvey Milk, or Ryan White got what they deserved because all they wanted was to be treated equal, treated fairly and treated with equal respect among their peers. Being the twenty first century, I had hoped that hunamity would have become more tolerant towards people like us but sometimes I still actually feel that my own life isn't worth a piece of crap because I happen to be attracted to men as opposed to a woman.

tsatske -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:33:59 AM)
quote: I think everyone who is over 18 and wants to get hitched, should be allowed to have a universally recognized civil union (with all the legal benefits) with any other legally single (never, divorced or widowed) person they wish. But just one--at a time. Could you explain in what way it adversly affects you, society, or anyone, if someone has spice instead of 'just one at a time'?

kittinSol -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:37:59 AM)
Hang on... you think marriage should be denied to gay couples, but that polygamy should be allowed to you? Just trying to understand where you're coming from here.

beargonewild -> RE: Gay marriage (10/23/2008 6:39:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Simpleslave101 Well..in the end we will all be so PC you can't voice an opinion w/o being stoned to death. OOPS did I doth offend someone? I am pretty sure we will all be one similar color and the idea of the "typical" marriage will be outdated. We will all melt into a single race and everyone will have that long lost Uncle that was one of them..ssshhhhh...."racist". So lets all join hands and sing coum-by-ya and don't you dare bat an eye at Biff and Jeffy or Janet and Annette for holding hands now. Now run along and eat your Tofu. Gee Simpleslave....allow me to be quite unPC. This "uncle" has two nieces, one is 13 and the other is 10. Both know their uncle is a faggot and yet they still love me anyways and are always happy when I do visit. This white trash fag has both parents still living and they still love their queer assed son. Happy? [:)]

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