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RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 8:11:43 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ultimately, D/s is not about your fantasies, it's about your (prospective) Domme's.

It's not about fantasy at all.  It's about reality.

Any relationship is predicated on all parties getting at least part of their desires fulfilled, and the rest of them at least acknowledged.

How gladiator desires to serve is every bit as important as how a Domme desires him to serve.  Service will succeed at the intersection of those desires, and nowhere else.


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RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 8:56:02 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

How gladiator desires to serve is every bit as important as how a Domme desires him to serve.  Service will succeed at the intersection of those desires, and nowhere else.



I really think this is one of the most crucial posts I've read. The only way to find the person who is going to work is to take the plunge and try out situations that seem like they -may- work... on both sides of the collar. It seems to me, after years of doing relationship counseling in a whole bunch of alternative communities, that most of the complications come about from one or both people repressing their real desires to try to fit into a relationship that really isn't a good fit for them. The analogy I use is from the original Cinderella, where one stepsister cut off her heel to try to fit into the shoe, and the other chopped off her toes... in both cases, the person was more incomplete for trying to fit into a relationship that wasn't suited to her, and it is the same way for the Keeper and servant... If one wants something that the other just can't or won't give, neither is going to be happy... sometimes there are discrete differences and it's pretty apparent that things just aren't clicking, but one or both parties are so hungry for -any- relationship that they cram, shove, and force aspects of themselves into corners to try to -make- the relationship fit... and then you get resentment and hidden anger, misery and dissatisfaction... and that is -no- foundation for a relationship.

I can understand where many FemDoms get really tired of hearing "Oh, this is my fantasy of how I want to serve you.", but really, somewhere out there, it's likely that there is the person who wants to be served just that way, and to her, his fantasy is perfection... so why cut off one's heel to fit a relationship that isn't right... keep putting it out there until you find the person or people who will be what you're looking for.


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 9:35:45 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		It's funny how this has kept jangling in my head all day, Gladiator.  I think that Chi's right when he says that you should pursue your own happiness and nobody but you knows, nor has the right to decide, what that pursuit must entail.  I don't know either - so the following might help you, or it might be useless to you.  If the latter, ditch it by all means.

To me it boils down to a really fundamental choice to be made after the oft-repeated charge from various Dommes that a sub doesn't want to serve and submit, he just wants to be dominated and in particular ways and according to his , not her, whims.  A big difference.  So when the question is spelt out: "Do you really want to submit, and put her desires and needs first?" it seemed to me that there were basically only two ways one could go in answering:

a) "No.  That's too much and too extreme.  I'll stick with my own desires, thanks"
- and that's a fine answer if it suits you. 

-  Or

b) "I see that. When I think of complete submission in that sense, the idea I had of it before looks weak and thin by comparison.  I get a buzz out of my fantasies, but the idea of complete submission is so deeply erotic it makes me feel like my insides have turned into lava"  [insert your own metaphor!]

If you're a b) type, then, great.  However, how the hell you articulate that to a Domme who's looking for such a type - I still don't know.





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(in reply to Gladiator123)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 10:00:18 AM   
OttersSwim


Posts: 2860
Joined: 9/1/2008
Status: offline 		Yea, but this is CollarMe - a dating site for BDSM relationships.  It is one of the first places where rubber meets the skin and fantasy meets cold hard reality of people in real relationship.

So many sub men folk come here with only their fantasy in their heads and no concept of how to make it actually happen for them real time.   They post their fantasy as has been done here and get the first slap across the face that there is a real live breathing person who might be on the other side of that fantasy who has other ideas...and who is in charge...at least, that's the idea...

Nothing wrong with having fantasies and desires.  As submissives we certainly want our needs met too and we are looking for a dominant that will indulge us just as we indulge them (indulge is probably not the right word, but you get the meaning I hope).

...Edited to delete a paragraph that was way stuffed up in and of itself...I am not having much luck putting my thoughts together today, so ignore me  ...

My opinion only. 

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 10/23/2008 10:07:07 AM >

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I am on a journey of authenticity and self.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 10:08:06 AM   
MissEnchanted


Posts: 510
Status: offline 		To the OP:

If  a black Domme is what really turns you on: Go for it! We all have things that turn us on, like that pic of PeonForHer's back for instance. (wink)

If you are truly a pet... I can see where your deep fantasies are for: 'nobody else vanilla would do that, so it really makes my knees weak, soul-realized and my pants happy'

There are many needs and wants in the world. Your needs can be met, and some of your wants and deep cravings might be a reward your Domme will find different ways (that turn her on) to fulfill or take you deeper than you thought you ever could go in the joys of submission to Her.

Put your fantasies on the back burner so you can get out there and meet some black women that turn you on. I know it is hard to do this. It takes self-discipline and strength in the way you reach out and communicate with any potential partner.

Once you have connected with a Domme and been with her real time, some of that fierce energy will dissipate your and fantasies may change. She will drive your dick, and your heart-mind while you are in Pet mode.

One more thing: Pet means different things to different people. Like the shoes of the Cinderella sisters. Keep the shoes and show them to a prospective Domme when she ASKS for that information. lol

Thanks everybody for all of your comments. I chortled along the way...

ME

ps: I discovered a bunch of wonderful people through my local Munch group. It is easy to join one and your deep desire to serve as a house-pet and personal servant will certainly be evident. Once a few dommes know you in real time (white, black, or Asian)...they can connect you into their personal circle of Dommes. Your Domme, like a jewel, is out there, creaming over thoughts of having a gem just like you at her feet.



< Message edited by MissEnchanted -- 10/23/2008 10:14:39 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 1:28:46 PM   
Chi


Posts: 68
Joined: 1/31/2005
Status: offline 		Gladiator: So it is we each come with expectations and for many of us those expectations have been forged hammered and honed to the keenest of edge in the raging flames of real life exposure. Often at the hand of an innovative and creative euphoria driven dominator so skilled they join you as you journey into the invisible. Together in that lofty place, you melding solidify and become as one. The two of you as one, one with greater passion and more explosive sexual energy then a hydrogen bomb. It’s not about pulling weeds in somebody’s garden. Its about bonding on a higher plane.

(in reply to Gladiator123)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 3:07:54 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		My dear Otter, next to me, you could never looked stuffed up.

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(in reply to OttersSwim)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 3:36:46 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I can understand where many FemDoms get really tired of hearing "Oh, this is my fantasy of how I want to serve you.", but really, somewhere out there, it's likely that there is the person who wants to be served just that way, and to her, his fantasy is perfection... so why cut off one's heel to fit a relationship that isn't right... keep putting it out there until you find the person or people who will be what you're looking for.


I think a lot has to do with the male's approach to said fantasy/desire/etc. The floodings of e-mails or these darling fantasy posts that always pop up on the forum. Many come off saying how they want to "serve" but it's always THEY'RE fantasy that they go on about. Rarely do they ask about the woman's ideas. I usually get asked "How do you like to spank" or "Do you like having your feet worshiped" but the question that pops up the most is "Would you do this to me" or "Would you do that to me."

Prime example, someone I speak to on and off again on AIM. Usually his greeting is "I want to worship your feet" or "I'd love to lick your ass" blah blah. Now, I do like those things and in the right context, sure why not. But he, and so many other male subs, take what could be the ideal fantasy to a woman and make it all about HIM. Of course in the end a guy has to find the woman who matches his interests, desires and what not...but if he wants to be the sub then such fantasies would be handled on his dominants terms. And personally, on my terms don't include being spamed in my inbox or having someone throw out their fantasy and not even know/care/think about the woman who will do the actions.

Personally, when these things get posted on the forum or in e-mail, it comes off as "This is my fantasy and I'll take any woman who will let me do it."

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 3:45:09 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		So, what would be the ideal question for a prospective sub to ask you, Usako?

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 4:20:30 PM   
bobian


Posts: 2
Joined: 5/22/2008
From: Nigeria
Status: offline 		wil love to find a mistress to love and cherish,she must be emotional a bit

(in reply to Chi)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 5:16:00 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

So, what would be the ideal question for a prospective sub to ask you, Usako?


"Hi, how are you?"

Basically, I get more of a "lust" to enjoy someone's company and even play with them when they're polite and act like a gentleman. Having an interest in getting to know me. Or better yet, wanting to serve me because of ME, because my persona makes them happy and makes them want to indulge in play and fantasies. Even if it's just playing at a BDSM club, a small conversation goes a long way in my book.

< Message edited by Usako -- 10/23/2008 6:13:16 PM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 5:23:02 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Wise words from my Owner over a year ago, the night we first spoke on YIM:

"You havent offered to show me your cock, havent boasted about its length or how smooth you're shaved down there, or how much your ass would love my dildos... so you're ahead of the game"

DV's Fox (Accidentally posting on his Owner's profile)

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Usako)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 5:32:32 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

How gladiator desires to serve is every bit as important as how a Domme desires him to serve.  Service will succeed at the intersection of those desires, and nowhere else.


Yeah, at risk of agreeing with Firestorm for the what... 3rd time today? That one line right there was worth it's weight in gold.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to celticlord2112)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 5:54:10 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I can understand where many FemDoms get really tired of hearing "Oh, this is my fantasy of how I want to serve you.", but really, somewhere out there, it's likely that there is the person who wants to be served just that way, and to her, his fantasy is perfection... so why cut off one's heel to fit a relationship that isn't right... keep putting it out there until you find the person or people who will be what you're looking for.


I agree with you to a point.  If I'm looking for a relationship it's definitely a good thing to know what I need and want and make my partner selection with that in mind.  I'm setting myself up for failure if I pursue a relationship where I have to set aside my needs to make things work - there's virtually no chance that I'm going to find happiness there.  I'll likely have to make some compromises on my wants, but there's a limit to how many of them I can give up before I start feeling unfulfilled.  If I start my search by putting my wants and needs on the back burner and trying to make myself into what I think my target audience wants me to be, I'm doomed.

I also agree with the others who've posted - if I've scripted out my ideal/fantasy relationship and am (or appear to be) looking for someone to step into the role I've created for them, I think the chances that I'll find someone who'll respond to that are pretty darned slim.  I've had emails from fellows who told me all about their dream relationship.  Even if their fantasy sounds like something I'd enjoy, those emails strike a sour note with me.  I don't know if I even want to talk to the guy yet and he seems to be into the negotiation phase.  It feels kind of objectifying to me, like it's way less about me than it is about the fantasy.  That's just plain unappealing.  I don't think I'm unusual in this, and I don't think it's a femdom thing.  I don't imagine that folks of any orientation are too impressed with an introductory email that lays out a blueprint for the future relationship.

I'm guessing that Gladiator would be willing to let some of the specifications he laid out in the OP slide if the relationship as a whole was going in the general direction he's looking for.  He'd likely go for a woman who would let him bathe her and do her housework and laundry but who often/sometimes likes to shop and cook for herself.  He's not putting his best foot forward if he's focusing on the fantasy, particularly considering the kind of woman he's looking for.  The women who are his target audience are likely to expect personal attention right from the start.  His best bet is to read the profile, tell her why he thinks she'll like him and ask her a probing question or two that will encourage her to respond.  If what she's seeing from him looks like boilerplate or a wish list, she's most likely going to pass. 



(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 5:59:47 PM   
MmeGigs


Posts: 706
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
So, what would be the ideal question for a prospective sub to ask you, Usako?

"Hi, how are you?"


I couldn't agree more.

(in reply to Usako)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 7:27:06 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Addressed to all, really :
 
They post their fantasy as has been done here and get the first slap across the face

I do wonder if that slap's just a bit too hard at CM  Why hasn't Gladiator posted a reply?  Is it common to see people post a question then disappear? 

I say this partly after looking at other sites and seeing quite a different atmosphere. 

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(in reply to OttersSwim)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 7:37:03 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Yes, Peon, it is very common for someone to post a wanker fantasy and disappear.  Sharing a fantasy is a big thrill for a lot of folks.   I am not sure what response the OP expected--or indeed what any of the men who post these kinds of things expect.  If you are looking for a black lady, doesn't it make sense to LOOK for one?  Why share the gory details with the masses?  

I have no desire to see anyone fail in their search for whatever, but honestly, there IS a difference between fantasy and the real life that most women lead.   I can't in good conscience encourage someone who is wandering down a very limited path. 

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[page 23 girl]



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RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 8:57:28 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
They post their fantasy as has been done here and get the first slap across the face

I do wonder if that slap's just a bit too hard at CM  Why hasn't Gladiator posted a reply?  Is it common to see people post a question then disappear? 
To the first part of your post here...  I think some of us gave him very simple, unthreatening, matter of fact replies to help in his search, to which he did not reply. 

He may or may not be a wanker;  it is not unusual for wankers to put out a fantasy story and hope we'll feed into it.   I think that people here will go into all sorts of details, if we feel the question/post is an honest inquiry.    M

_____________________________

"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence." Erich Fromm

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 9:37:29 PM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline 		After reading the thread, my only comment to the OP and any other man in his position is this:

When you read replies to a thread, pay careful heed to the sex and the orientation of the people responding to you. If I was a heterosexual male submissive, and a dozen dominant women told me one thing, and one dominant man stepped in to contradict them, guess who I probably wouldn't listen to, if I wanted to form a successful relationship with a dominant woman?

Similarly, if I had three or four different submissive males step in to offer me brotherly advice or good-natured ribbing, and one of them was successful enough as a submissive man that he was about to be married to his beloved owner, and another was a bitter creep whose only comfort is that he's "too good for Internet dommes anyway", guess which one I'd ignore?

Context is everything, folks. Nothing wrong with fantasies--everyone has them--but it simply isn't appropriate to hit a total stranger with your most intimate sexual desires before they have any reason to give a flying fuck about you. Just because someone happens to a domme or a black woman doesn't mean she has any reason to satisfy your laundry list of humiliation and toilet fantasies. In much the same way that just because someone has a friendly face doesn't mean they want to hear your entire life story and lend you a thousand dollars.

Build a caring and loving relationship with someone, and expressing your needs is neither hard nor unwelcome. People who care about you want you to be happy and fulfilled. A woman who is aroused and pleased by you is interested in your pleasure.

This ain't brain surgery. Dominant women are not interested in serving men. For as long as you make things all about you--? YOU is all you're going to have.

_____________________________

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to Chi)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: True desire to serve - 10/23/2008 11:34:35 PM   
FullfigRIMaam


Posts: 718
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

When you read replies to a thread, pay careful heed to the sex and the orientation of the people responding to you. If I was a heterosexual male submissive, and a dozen dominant women told me one thing, and one dominant man stepped in to contradict them, guess who I probably wouldn't listen to, if I wanted to form a successful relationship with a dominant woman?

Similarly, if I had three or four different submissive males step in to offer me brotherly advice or good-natured ribbing, and one of them was successful enough as a submissive man that he was about to be married to his beloved owner, and another was a bitter creep whose only comfort is that he's "too good for Internet dommes anyway", guess which one I'd ignore?
Makes perfect sense to me, but I'm het, dominant, and I'm not looking.
Are you listening/reading this carefully Gladiator123?!  There are some very good clues here.   M


_____________________________

"touching was and still is and will always be the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence." Erich Fromm

(in reply to ShaktiSama)
Profile   Post #: 40
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