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RE: Married and lied - 10/25/2008 9:10:50 PM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		Can you trust this person in the future?
Where do you see yourself fitting into their life?
What kind of person and relationship do you want for yourself?

Sometimes in life you have to make hard choices for your own well being.....
"B'bye...thanks for the memories and life lesson."
Move forward with your Life.

_____________________________

We attract hearts by the qualities we display. We retain them by the qualities we possess.

Shoes can change your life................. Cinderella

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Married and lied - 10/25/2008 9:17:51 PM   
PanthersMom


Posts: 2215
Joined: 11/26/2007
From: Cleveland Ohio
Status: offline 		you really have to ask this question?  honestly, can't you figure out the answer yourself? fair?  hell no, and you're guilty of hurting his wife too, whether or not you knew, you didn't dig into his life and make sure you knew this man you were trusting with your life.  i think you need to get out and do some better investigating the next time you get involved with someone.
PM

_____________________________

That which does not kill me, better run pretty damn fast

I miss my ex, but my aim is improving!




(in reply to silkncarol)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Married and lied - 10/25/2008 11:13:09 PM   
ExKat


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline 		  Staying with a married man is flat out selfish and stupid. The sex might be great, you might love him, but ignoring the fact isn't going to make it go away. He's married. He has a wife, and other responsibilities. He's not the kind of man you can trust for anything...he's probably seeing other submissives on the side. Even if you want to make the relationship just sex (selfish...remember the wife) you likely can't trust him to be truthful about the simplest sexual things-i.e. whether he's being safe.

For me, the answer would be clear.

_____________________________

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testing
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(in reply to PanthersMom)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Married and lied - 10/25/2008 11:53:04 PM   
Usako


Posts: 697
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: bebeuu

I apparently am in the minority here...but if I was his wife...I would WANT to know that he has been betraying me.
Even if the delivey method is a screaming, hysterical, vindictive woman who is enjoying your pain?


I don't see why people assume telling the wife means the other woman is vindictive or makes her a psycho. As Bebeuu said, I'd WANT to know. There is a difference between running to wife and yelling and screaming like an idiot and gathering evidience (letters, phone calls, whatever) showing the wife, telling her and going on your merry way. If the wife doesn't know I don't think it's fair she live with a cheater.

Reminds me way back when I was with a guy who lied about having a gf. It promptly ended after I found out, but she ended up finding my number and calling me. I was honest and apparently I wasn't the only woman he'd been flirting around with. She thanked me for my honesty, wanted to hang out and become friends after it but that never panned out. I wanted to bow out and let them handle that shit, of course she dumped him.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 1:33:38 AM   
masterforRT


Posts: 176
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline 		Your entire relationship with him is based upon a lie. You already know the answer, don't you?

(in reply to Elenaconfined)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 7:29:59 AM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I don't think she should tell the wife.  If the wife calls and asks her should she be forthright and honest?  Certainly.  But seek her out and tell her?  No way.  Because except for it being her decision whether or not to continue in a relationship with him, his relationship with his wife is not her business.  There is no way she can know the dynamic of another person's marriage. Yes, the wife might want to know, but it's just as possible that she doesn't or that she knows already and would not appreciate being told.  She is not yet responsible for causing pain to this woman because she did not know she exists.  But if by telling her she causes her additional pain and suffering, then that is on her.


_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to sexyb4u)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 7:52:46 AM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

Really - If you acted with honor in your own behavoir, you are not responsible to 'ask directly' every question that he could be lieing about.

What kind of way is that to get a relationship off the ground?
'Are you married?' 'no'
'Well, are you seeing anyone?' 'no'
'Well, do you have any exes who seem to think they are still entitled to you?' 'no'
'Do you have any children?'
Does your mother cling to you and demand excess amounts of your time?'
'Do you have any casual playmates?'
'Do you have any friends with benifits?'

How many questions am I supposed to ask before it is not my fault that some jackass lied to me?
Surely I will ask some questions - but there is just no way I could be responsible to ask EVERY question.
And if a man is the type that lies not only to everyone else, but also to himself, and therefore 'only lies by ommision' - trust me, he can always find an excuse.
You will get mr. 'well, she did ask if i was married, buy actually it's my ex wife that I have been living with again for the last five years, so, we are not married, so I told her no.'
You will get, 'yes, i know i told you i'm not married, but, well, really i'm not. Sure, legeally I'm still married, and we still live in the same house, but we are no longer emotionally married at all, and I think she knows that too. Hell, she is probably cheating on me, too. We'd be divorced, but for this situation....'

If a man wants to lie, he will, and 'asking him directly' will not prevent that. It might make YOU feel that you did all you could, and if that fits in your ethics, then do it. But to hold people responsible for not following the ethics that make YOU feel better is a little silly.


I kind of see your point, and then I don't. Sure, I'm going to do all I can (reasonably) to get to know someone. I'm going to ask whatever questions I want to ask, that help to paint a bigger picture for me. With the man I'm currently seeing, I asked things like, "Are you married, or otherwise attached?" "How long ago were you divorced?" "Do you have offspring?" "Are you working?" "Do you see other women at the moment, and if not, do you intend to?" "Are you having the types of conversations we're having with others, as well?"

Mind you, these were asked over time, rather than fired at him all at once. My former Master is a lawyer, and could make anything become the truth (or seem like it). I knew that about him and decided to follow anyway. Over time, it didn't work because I found myself doubting him. I need direct. I need honest, and that means being honest enough with myself to ask the questions that are on my mind, rather than just wondering.

Where I'm confused by your post is because, while I know we are responsible for our choices in people we give ourselves to, I'm not going to take responsibility for someone else's deliberate lie. If I'm making a good faith effort to get to know someone and grow close to him, that's not an invitation for him to lie to me.

If it's silly for me to hold people responsible for their actions, well, call me silly! Because lying to me does not fall into my code of ethics, and I'm going to hold someone accountable when they do.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 8:07:03 AM   
Real_Trouble


Posts: 471
Joined: 2/25/2008
Status: offline 		To the OP:

Life's not fair.  You have to make your own decision here.

The one question I would ask is that if he's willing to do that to her, what's he willing to do to you?  Why is he doing that to her in the first place, in fact?

Leopards do not often change their spots, and if you think you are somehow "different" from his past, you'd better have a damn good argument for why.

So is it fair?  Who cares.  I'd worry about "Is it stupid?", honestly.


_____________________________

Send lawyers, guns, and money.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 8:17:06 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		To the OP

     so   .....    your ideal dom is a liar and a cheat.

is this what you were looking for?     and if not, why are you still there?

You can't chose who you love, but love doesn't control your actions, your head does.  You might listen to your head on this one.
Sorry.

(in reply to Real_Trouble)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 9:22:51 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

To the OP

    so   .....    your ideal dom is a liar and a cheat.

is this what you were looking for?     and if not, why are you still there?

You can't chose who you love, but love doesn't control your actions, your head does.  You might listen to your head on this one.
Sorry.


Seconded.

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to kiwisub12)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 9:33:33 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Usako

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: bebeuu

I apparently am in the minority here...but if I was his wife...I would WANT to know that he has been betraying me.
Even if the delivey method is a screaming, hysterical, vindictive woman who is enjoying your pain?


I don't see why people assume telling the wife means the other woman is vindictive or makes her a psycho.
Why would you assume that she isn't going to be vindictive or psycho?

The point being: You don't get an option on whether that person is going to be kind or whether they're going to be an emotional wreck and take it out on you. You can't control how you get told.

In my experience as a relationship counselor, the people that take their anger out on the wife outnumber the women that are kind about it.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Usako)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 10:32:59 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyb4u

Is it fair to be part of an affair?

What does "fair" have to do with any of it?

Are you expecting a refund from the universe?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to sexyb4u)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 10:59:34 AM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		NuevaVida,
That is, pretty much, what I was trying to say. I have a right to hold other people responsible for their behavoir. I am willing to be responsible for MY behavoir - but 'being lied to' is NOT my behavoir - it's the liars behavoir.
Trying to turn it around and blame it on me 'Did you ask? I mean, did you ask directly? Did you ask directly enough? Did you ask soon enough?' Whatever. Yes, at some point I'm going to ask lots of basic questions getting to know him - but if those questions did not fire his little heart with the desire to tell me the truth he knows I need to hear to make a valid descion to be with him - that is really on him.
How many people do you think ask me 'Are you certifiably nutsiod? I mean, crazy as a whacked out bedbug?' Yet, they really do need to know, in order to make a valid descion to continue forward, that I am mentally ill. I tell people - no later than the first date (usually sooner. I mean, no later than meeting for coffee, ect - and usually before they ever meet me).
If those people do not resond to me with equal honesty about whatever it is in their life - no, I am not going to feel guilty that I didn't win at the guessing game and ask the right question.
I am going to label them, in my mind, as a person with honesty and integrety issues, and move on, becuase that is NOT what I want in my life.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 12:03:11 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline 		Fair? No.

I know I should be all "Oh, ghastly!", but things happen sometimes.

If a friend came to me with this, I'd say, "..are you ready if this blows up? Cause it probably might. At least don't undermine the marriage any further. And try and get some details and accountability from him, the weasel."
I see the responsibility for getting right as being more upon him than you.

Generally, though, I don't know what's going on with that marriage, or with him, or with the relationship you two have. I'm not going to automatically judge one way or the other.



(in reply to sexyb4u)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 12:05:50 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

In my experience as a relationship counselor, the people that take their anger out on the wife outnumber the women that are kind about it.


I do not understand the level of anger or hate that would cause someone to bring that sort of emotional torment into another's life.  Scary.


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(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 12:42:03 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske

NuevaVida,
That is, pretty much, what I was trying to say. I have a right to hold other people responsible for their behavoir. I am willing to be responsible for MY behavoir - but 'being lied to' is NOT my behavoir - it's the liars behavoir.
Trying to turn it around and blame it on me 'Did you ask? I mean, did you ask directly? Did you ask directly enough? Did you ask soon enough?' Whatever. Yes, at some point I'm going to ask lots of basic questions getting to know him - but if those questions did not fire his little heart with the desire to tell me the truth he knows I need to hear to make a valid descion to be with him - that is really on him.



Thank you for clarifying! I had completely misread or misunderstood (or both!) your post and thought you were saying if I was lied to, it IS my fault. And that just didn't add up for me! OK, I agree now - it is incumbent upon the person I'm developing a relationship with to be truthful and forthcoming. If I miss a particular question, that does not then put the onus on me for being lied to. To say "I didn't tell her because she didn't ask" is just...well...chicken shit.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to tsatske)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 12:43:59 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

In my experience as a relationship counselor, the people that take their anger out on the wife outnumber the women that are kind about it.


I do not understand the level of anger or hate that would cause someone to bring that sort of emotional torment into another's life.  Scary.



My ex husband used to tell me, and he actually believed this, "Who else can I take my frustrations out on, if not my wife?" He was convinced it was my job as his wife to receive the ugly as well as the good. He had me believing that for awhile to...until I didn't.

Had I known better, I'd have shown up at home one night with loaded weaponry and tell him he was about to return the favor!

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 1:29:09 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I think I understand where you go wrong. It isn't that you need to take responsibility for someone else's lie, it is that you need to understand how you set yourself up to be lied to. Since the advent of the identity theft, I've taken a subscription to a background investigation outfit, which gives me the ability to check folks out. A criminal background check, for which you need an address and a name (if you're clever just a town may suffice, if it's not LA) tells you whether there is a spouse or not, if there are kids (if they have social security numbers) etc. Doing this is one of the bits of advice I give everybody who dates on the Internet. It's available, it is legal, you can subscribe or just pay for one search, just knowing whether someone has a conviction for larceny, five DUIs, or for battery can save you from a lot of hassle.

I agree with others - you are responsible for what happens to you if you could have avoided it. If your house blows away because you live on a barrier island it is your fault. If you don't know the guy is married because he would not give you his home address it is your fault, for not giving him the boot. Don't ever have a relationship with someone whose house you can't visit - what's so hard to understand?

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 2:27:06 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		I use a third party browser. I love my third party browser, but it sometimes strips a few features from some websites. I just noticed that I don't have a forum search here, so i can't link you. (You should see what it does to PBS, my favorite website. It is so bad that I put a link up to go directly to their forums, on my desktop, with explorer, which i hate using, but, everynow and then, i need to make an intellegable post on there.)
So, I can't give you a link.
But, a few months ago, there was a thread here from a sub/slave who had been dating her Dom for a year - they were local, saw each other once or twice a week. She was getting concerned that she absolutely could not go to his house. He explained to her that he lived in his father's home - old and embarrasingly falling apart - in order to take care of his father with Alzehiemers - who got upset by the presence of strangers. She said, she also noticed she never met any of his friends, ect.
The general treand of the answers was evenly devided between, 'That poor man! Taking care of his dad! how dare you add more stress to him by pushing this!' and 'You are the slave! You have no right to question him!'
Interesting, that when a slave comes along and says, 'My Master failed to tell me he was married', there is this rash of 'Did you do this? Did you do this?'
"never date a man if you can't go to his house, his work place, meet family and friends, call him at home.'
I happen to agree. But I do not agree that someone failing to do that makes being lied to their own fault. Being lied to is the fault of the lair.
I would not date someone under those conditions, cause I came close enough with my last Master. He was not married, he was just embarrassed to be a newly divorced 65 yo man living with a woman half his age. He told me, all his friends from his marriage were really her friends.
Yes, I knew he was not lying to me and still married, because I slept beside him every night. But I never met his adult chiildren, his family, or any friends except lifestyle friends. I occasionally caught him introducing me as his neice - and you didn't think you could have a fight with a slave? <grin>
I will never do that again. I have to meet your family, friends, workmates, see you house, your car, be able to call you at home, on your cell phone and at work. I don't have to have all that to be your friend or your playmate, but before I stop searching and focus myself on you, yes, i do have to have that.
But that is me. I don't hold every other woman on the planet responsible to use my limits. If you get lied to, it is the liars fault, not the person who didn't catch on. It's that simple.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

(in reply to antipode)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Married and lied - 10/26/2008 5:30:06 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		well, first off..what do you define as Being fair?...and possilbly..If he'd told you this at the start of this 18 month affair..would you still be with him..and maybe three..Did you sign on for poly?..Aswer those for yourself..and I think you'll get at least part of the aswers you asking .

(in reply to Elenaconfined)
Profile   Post #: 60
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