RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy?

RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (Full Version)

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LadyConstanze -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/27/2008 6:36:38 PM)
I absolutely don't see masochism as nuts, hell no, I'm a sadist and if you would ever see me doing any kind of sport, you would say I qualify as a maso too, and I probably do, even if I would feel like ripping the throat out of anybody who attempts to beat me... Let's say as a teenager I had my brushes with self harming and I think it is essentially different from masochism. Maybe my definition isn't the definition a psychologist would give, but just take them as my personal opinion Masochism is something that I would say is a kink or some craving, it is (as absurd as it sounds) pleasant to a degree, it furthers your lust. Self harming has nothing to do with lust or your libido, it's an expression of an underlying issue and you try to cope with it by inflicting pain. Both might look the same but they aren't, as a weak example the difference between a soy sausage and meat sausage...

missturbation -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 7:35:25 AM)
quote: I think for the pointed reason there is no element of control, no stopping point. I'd disagree with this. There is control - self control. There is also a stopping point, it's just i have to decide alone where that is. quote: When I engage in S&M, I trust in my top to be that control point, that good judgement. For myself, if I tried to self-harm, that would be gone, when endorphines rush I am NOT in my right mind, and don't want to be, that would ruin the high. I personally prefer that both the Dom and myself are in control. I don't rely entirely on him to decide where the stopping point is, i use my own judgement too. I do however agree that in the heat of the moment i may go to far. As has been said before it is dangerous, but so is everything we do. quote: I wouldn't use the term "self harm" in the context of self-masochism. As softness brought up, with "harm" you suggest that the intent is to cause damage, and by extension, to punish or destroy. I was only using the words self harm to show i wasn't talking about self harm but self masochism. I did not want this to turn into a thread which was all about self harm. quote: Self harm of any description cannot possibly be healthy and the desire to do so is symptomatic of a serious need for help. Ok. But what about self masochism?

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 7:38:13 AM)
but if you are biting yourself, slapping yourself, whatever ever self masochism it is you do, it is still causing harm to yoursef...no? The whole thing is about the context in which it is done and like someone else said, the Intent. But to me it is still self harm as that is effectively what you are doing. Causing harm to ones self.. self harm- is the act of harming the self (dictionary) Masochism- "sexual pleasure in being hurt or abused," 1893, from Ger. Masochismus Put the two together.. *edited to put thing in the sentence as it made no sense without it!

kyraofMists -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 7:54:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: teensub but if you are biting yourself, slapping yourself, whatever ever self masochism it is you do, it is still causing harm to yoursef...no? Maybe, but also maybe not. Being hurt and feeling pain does not equate to harm. For some people being in pain is harmful to them. For others being in pain brings them pleasure. There are certain kinds of pain that I like just for the sake of feeling that pain; it feels good. Feeling it does not harm me in any way. Knight's Kyra

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 7:58:34 AM)
i know, but it is still harm, if you are biting youself that is harm of some kinda, even if it feels sexual. Like i said, it is about the intent

kyraofMists -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:01:10 AM)
what is your definition of harm? It seems that you think pain equals harm. To equate pain with harm means that people who exercise harm themselves. Last I heard exercise was actually a very healthy activity for people to engage in. Knight's Kyra

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:03:52 AM)
i obviously am no good at explaining myself. For me harm is when someone perhaps leaves a mark, so when M asks me to slap my body for him, that will make me red for a while and possibly cause a bruise. Things along those lines, i think if it leaves a mark or is damaging in some when, then its harm.

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:05:15 AM)
but no pain doesn't always equate to harm, like wax play for example, that causes stinging and slight pain, but it doesn't leave a mark, it doesn't cause me harm

kyraofMists -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:09:17 AM)
My definition of harm is not based on marking the skin. My definition of harm is that the person walks away from the experience less than when they entered it. Mentally and emotionally they feel they have been lessened as a person. A person can be seriously harmed and not have a mark to show for it. They can also have quite a few marks and walk away feeling great about who they are and what they have done. Knight's Kyra

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:11:26 AM)
From the dictionary definition's i have come across masochism is said to be causing harm. However the dictionary's do not stated what harm is in this context..so i guess we will never truly know. I think it is all just personal opinion

RainydayNE -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:44:05 AM)
when i was cutting it was a combination of alot of things. i'd do it to make myself zone out when i didn't want to deal with anything. i'd do it to punish myself, lots and lots of self-loathing and other yucky stuff. i'd do it just because the rush would make me feel somewhat lightheaded and therefore "better," i'd do it intent on making myself uglier, blah blah blah blah blah there are so many reasons why people do it, it's very hard to let go of. and i don't think you really DO let go of it, if it's your propensity. you merely come to a point where you can talk yourself down, if that makes sense. i still think about it ALOT, especially when i'm upset. but now i just go "well no, that's not a good idea" and find something else to do until i run out of time/privacy/whatever and it's no longer a viable option. =p you have to REALLY commit and actually WANT to stop, otherwise it IS like an addiction, and you justify to yourself all sorts of reasons why you need to do it, and you can stop when you want to, etc etc. =p the usual excuses. it's an interesting thing.

missturbation -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 8:56:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: teensub but no pain doesn't always equate to harm, like wax play for example, that causes stinging and slight pain, but it doesn't leave a mark, it doesn't cause me harm See by your definition wax play would cause me harm. I often have burn marks where the wax has been. At the least i have red splodges on my skin. The reason i used the term self masochism is because i wanted to stay away from the negative image 'self harm' equates to. Think about this. If the intent behind the self masochism is the same as when you allow your Dom to hurt you then how is it harm in a bad way?

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 9:33:39 AM)
I don't think you can draw an absolute line and state irrefutably that self-harming (as Missturbation describes it) or massochism (as most of us perceive it) is symptomtic of a deeper issue. Yes, sometimes it is. However, oft times it is not. There was a time in my life when I hurt so badly inside emotionally, and physically I felt like the only way anyone could ever see the hurt was if it was made manifest in some way. One day when my husband had cornered me (he did that a lot) and was screaming at me and yelling and saying all manner of vile things to me - I took a steak knife and repeatedly cut myself across the arm. I needed him to see what he was doing to me. That WAS symptomatic of a deeper issue, and I needed help. I've never cut myself since, but I do understand where some of those who do cut themselves are coming from. Sometimes it seems as if it is the only control they have, over the internal anguish caused by external chaos that they have no control over. Anyway. In such situations, they are symptomatic of an underlying issue. I cried when I got my ears pierced. Both times. I cry if I stub my toe and I do not consider myself a masochist. However, I did enjoy a 6 month period in my life when I was dating a sadist who was brilliant at conditioning one to enjoy pain and wow, did I enjoy it. The pleasure I felt from those scenes was mind blowing, but it isn't anything I feel I need or seek out in and of itself. One of the scenes my sadistic ex performed was a cutting on my hip. He carved a rune into my backside. Can't say that I enjoyed it, and I can't say that it was the hightlight of my experience with him, aside from being an interesting experience - but my point here that I'm trying to make is that the cutting came from a different place. A different mindset, ad a different experience, and it most certainly wasn't symptomatic of an underlying issue that needed to be dealt wth.

RainydayNE -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 9:42:27 AM)
nope it isn't always. there are people who enjoy playing with knives and drawing blood, it's a completely different thing. i don't think self-harming counts as masochism because well... the way i "understand" masochism is that there's some sort of rush involved (usually sexual) and self-harm is well... not done in the interest of fun? =p that said, masochism in a purely psychiatric point of view is a bit of a different thing as well. yay semantics! =p

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 10:17:50 AM)
~FR~ I don't consider self-masochism "unhealthy", but my therapist did. We had quite a discussion on self-cutting and self-piercing, and I don't think that he and I agreed very often... but in the end, I felt better about myself when I was self-modifying than when I was in therapy anyway, so I think it may have been a moot point. [;)] I think the point at which anything becomes unhealthy, whether it's self-masochism, drinking, smoking, etc., is at that point at which it limits a person's capacity to make the -other- life choices that xhe wants to make. If a person has to turn down an opportunity for a trip xhe really wants to take, say, because nobody else smokes and xhe won't be allowed to smoke as long as xhe has to share a car (even if xhe only smokes during 'rest stops', because even then the smell clings), then smoking is sort of ruling hir life. It's keeping the person from doing what xhe wants to do, and if xhe can't -stop- smoking so xhe can make other choices, then it becomes unhealthy. In the same way, if what a person is doing as self-masochism starts to take over hir life, and interferes with other choices like "I can't go to work today... I really need to mummify", then yeah, it probably isn't healthy. OTOH, if it's not interfering with one's capacity to live, then it may be a very -healthy- expression, and can probably provide at least -some- catharsis.

teensub -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 12:18:11 PM)
Im trying to differentiate between self harm and self masochism. i know what i mean, if no one else does.

JustDarkness -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 12:33:48 PM)
as soon as you ask yourself..if it is healthy or not..then I personally think..it is not healthy anymore.

kyraofMists -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 12:45:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustDarkness as soon as you ask yourself..if it is healthy or not..then I personally think..it is not healthy anymore. I used to think that too, but then I spent the last four years challenging my beliefs of what is or is not healthy for me. It turns out that the boundaries I initially drew for myself because I thought it was healthy to do so were actually holding me back from being fulfilled and incredibly happy. It was in asking if it was healthy or not that I learned new things about myself and grew as a person. Knight's Kyra

LadyConstanze -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 12:52:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JustDarkness as soon as you ask yourself..if it is healthy or not..then I personally think..it is not healthy anymore. I don't know about that, when I struggled to come to terms with my sadism, I used to ask myself that pretty often... Questioning yourself is not a bad thing

JustDarkness -> RE: Self masochism, unhealthy or healthy? (10/28/2008 12:57:42 PM)
Yes..you always have to look at yourself..agree...self reflection is important. I was more thinking..if you start to worry about yourself...then you should at least think if it is healthy or not...and let it rest till you know the answer. quote: holding me back from being fulfilled and incredibly happy. that is ofcourse the most important thing... I see unhappy also as unhealthy. If it does make you happy..then it can't be unhealthy (till soem degree/ to much is often wrong for many things) But asking yourself that question...should make one think...atleast. Not go on..with out knowing what you do. Self destruction is propably not the goal...but happyness is.

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