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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 9:55:45 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		*smooches Christina*  the best thing to do, IMO, is agree to disagree

(so..when ya gonna come visit? *hugs* to you and HM)


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:19:50 AM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Point of clarification:  No matter the mechanism, abortion is a wrong choice.  DIY abortions are just as wrong as the current sanctioned procedures.  The goal should not be a "return" to DIY abortions, but an end to the practice, period.


I suggest starting with guinea pigs. They're notorious for late abortions, like days after partuition. We must obviously put an end to that.

My point is that there will not be an end to the practice unless a declaration of war against moral diversity is made.

And I would rather have Ragnarok, despite a distaste for foeticide.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:21:36 AM   
xxblushesxx


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From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		I don't know Greedy...the best thing to do (imo) is for people to come together to try to understand each other, and try to find answers to the very difficult questions facing us.
I wanted to thank you for your response to my earlier statement. You made the point you wanted to make and did so respectfully.
I felt attacked by most others here.
You don't have to agree with me, but for heaven's sake, can you at least acknowledge the points I made? I attempt to respectfully acknowledge yours. (yours meaning viewpoints people have that are different from mine)
Can you at least acknowledge that this is going to be a heated issue, and that perhaps, just perhaps, the people who are completely anti-abortion, and the people who are completely pro-choice (obtw, I did not mean to offend anyone with pro-abortion...this isn't a topic I discuss much, and didn't know that was an offensive term) are both too hard-headed to consider coming to a meeting of the minds?
We need people on both sides of the issue, people of different ages, genders and backgrounds to come up with ideas, help and solutions.

As far as Florida is concerned...probably spring or summer if all goes well. (although I just know when I get a J.O.B. it's going to get in the way of my fun times!!)

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:24:50 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Why the anti-choice camp wants to go back to "DIY abortions," however, is beyond me, since there's this thing about it contradicting their supposedly pro-life position, unless it is only babies they want to live, in which case I am somewhat perplexed at what manner of thought process can arrive at the notion that the seed is more noble than the flower.

Point of clarification:  No matter the mechanism, abortion is a wrong choice.  DIY abortions are just as wrong as the current sanctioned procedures.  The goal should not be a "return" to DIY abortions, but an end to the practice, period.



Something isn't wrong just because you say its wrong. What a woman does with HER body has nothing to do with you or me.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:32:22 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

Something isn't wrong just because you say its wrong.

This is correct. Abortion is wrong whether I say it is wrong or not.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:33:12 AM   
giveeverything


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

Something isn't wrong just because you say its wrong.

This is correct. Abortion is wrong whether I say it is wrong or not.
This is the craziest argument ever. It's akin to saying, "because god said so." 

< Message edited by giveeverything -- 10/28/2008 10:34:56 AM >

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 10:39:35 AM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


Can you at least acknowledge that this is going to be a heated issue, and that perhaps, just perhaps, the people who are completely anti-abortion, and the people who are completely pro-choice (obtw, I did not mean to offend anyone with pro-abortion...this isn't a topic I discuss much, and didn't know that was an offensive term) are both too hard-headed to consider coming to a meeting of the minds?


....i think that some people have mischaracterised the two sides on this issue. On the one hand we have pro-life (anti-abortion), on the other pro-choice........now, the thing about pro-choice is that it is not the opposite of pro-life. The opposite of anti-abortion is pro-abortion, and very few, if any, people argue for that. No-one at all in this thread has argued to make abortion compulsory........in one sense the pro-life position has already won. Because abortion, as it stands today, has legal conditions laid upon it. The current legal position is a compromise between two extremes.

i'd like to reiterate what my OP was originally about. It wasn't really about abortion per se. It was specifically aimed at those who take a theological stance on the issue. Thus, it's about theology rather than abortion. The termination of a pregnancy is where the rubber hits the road........but it's not the tyre or the road.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 11:40:03 AM   
scarlethiney


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Status: offline 		In the normal course of things, it is not ok to take a human life just because it is convenient. It's just not.
And, yes, I feel compassion for those who have had to make that decision.
I realize there are no absolutes in this life.
There but for the grace of God go I...
It's just a bit too easy in the world we have created to ignore the fact that these are human beings.
And yes, there really are people who use abortion as some screwed up form of birth control. Not all. Not most. But some. And yanno what? That is just too many.
If we don't make it illegal, there has to be some sort of rules as to how and when it will be implemented.
It's just too easy now.
And too sad.

*edited for snarkiness*

You know Christina it is a terribly controversial and heartfelt issue.  You felt attacked while while I felt you were being judgmental.
To assume that anyone who is faced with this situation do it merely out of convenience is a pretty harsh statement. Were I the two posters who had the courage to describe how they felt having had abortions I would have been very offended by your remarks. 
I do not for one minute think that any woman casually decides under any circumstance that getting an abortion is convenient or easy or the preferred method of addressing an unwanted pregnancy.
There is no simple answer or "quick" fix. It  most certainly is not a black and white issue . It is a multi- colored issue with a multi- cultural aspect that crosses every economic and religious back ground.
In the scheme of things it shouldn't be about who is right, but what is right or best for each individual person.
Let's just agree to disagree.

scarlet




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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 11:44:56 AM   
BlackPhx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx

If we don't make it illegal, there has to be some sort of rules as to how and when it will be implemented.
It's just too easy now.
And too sad.

*edited for snarkiness*


There are rules and laws and procedures already in place to regulate when, where, how, and at what point and in late cases, conditions under which it can be done. It is never easy. Not as a choice. Not in the action, for either the Doctor, the Mother or any one else involved. It just seems easy to those who find it easy to condemn without knowing the why. There are times that I wish my natural mother had had the option, and there are times I have tried to self correct that she did not have that option, as both an Um and an Adult.

poenkitten

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 11:48:41 AM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
What does God care about a life being taken.

The God of the Dead actually does care.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
He cares less. His son is a good example of that.  Don't give me the crap about him dieing for our sins. If he did then why are we still sinning.

The rational here is not not sinning. Anybody with a conscience will sin. The rational is that those sinners that truly believe are absolved from paying the spiritual and physical price for having sinned. As such Jesus does function in exactly the same way as the scapegoat.

< Message edited by Rule -- 10/28/2008 11:55:11 AM >

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 11:50:43 AM   
JustDarkness


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Status: offline 		ok..
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=6057077&page=1

just curious about the reactions.  

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:07:16 PM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

ok..
http://abcnews.go.com/International/Story?id=6057077&page=1

just curious about the reactions.  


Quite an interesting article. Especially since the procedures take place on a yacht thus it's not bound by Spain's laws but by Maritime law. I have no opinion one way or another concerning if it's right or wrong.  I just a sense of uneasiness over the intent of this being a positive step yet it can be too easily abused.


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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:17:28 PM   
BlackPhx


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Status: offline 		It is sad that such methods have to be resorted to.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/malawi_46093.html and http://www.unicef.org/media/media_46091.html don't just happen in third word countries and while Spain is not a third world country by any means, those at the lower end of the pay scale there, tend to have far more children than they can afford to house, or feed. There are always ramifications, legal, moral, ethical to any CHOICE we make, and a lot of times when that choice is taken away or denied, it leaves people little resort than the article you pointed to.

poenkitten

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:25:26 PM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

God doesn't want people to follow because they have no choice. He doesn't want people to worship Him blindly. It has to be a decision. There has to be Free Will.


Discuss


I would think that an entity which had no apparent issues with destroying entire cities for exhibiting free will, would flood an entire world for exhibiting free will is probably an entity you don't want to piss off. What I would take some issue with is calling everything "Gods will' .. unless it interfers with personal, subjective ideas on what, exactly, that entails. It's often asked if there is a God.. why did he let so and so happen and the most common explanation is that it's "God's will". Well, sauce for the goose and all .. God lets abortions happen, genocide, drug addiction etc, etc... so, call that God's will, too, and quit saying that it's 'wrong.' It's just God's will.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:30:32 PM   
JustDarkness


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Status: offline 		The boat is a nice way...even for goverments..to make peopel think about the problem. They "only" offer an abortion pil..op to certain weeks. They don't do operations.
Spain is catholic and abortion can be problematic issue/subject. But the goverment allowed the boat near it waters. I think they were glad...that it visited. I read that many abortions..where it is not legal..are done with needles and such and the girls die by infections. It is sad.

Portugal's minister of defense...warned the ship though to not enter her territory.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:33:32 PM   
knees2you


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Status: offline 		Murder is Murder!
 
If the Baby would suffer in real life because the
Mother might have been heavily on drugs, then that is no way for a Child to be born or live.
If it even survies?
 
Always, knees

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:34:50 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

What I would take some issue with is calling everything "Gods will' .. unless it interfers with personal, subjective ideas on what, exactly, that entails.



As if we, with all our flaws, could even begin to know what "God's will" could ever be. Moral relativism runs rampant.

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:36:11 PM   
JustDarkness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
What does God care about a life being taken.

The God of the Dead actually does care.


there is more then 1?

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:37:10 PM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Rule thinks so. And why not, after all...

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RE: Pro-life Anti-Christian - 10/28/2008 12:44:05 PM   
giveeverything


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Status: offline 		One of my favorite Anne Lamott quotes is, “You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.”  She also wrote recently in Salon.com this little gem (it can be applied as needed), "Don't you think God finds these smug egomaniacs morally repellent? Recoils from their smugness as from hot flame?" She's one of the most interesting Christians I know of.

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