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Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:32:45 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		"LEXINGTON, Ky. – A life-sized likeness of Barack Obama was found hanging from a tree with a noose around its neck Wednesday at the University of Kentucky, the second time in about a month such an effigy of the Democratic nominee
was reported on a college campus.
UK spokesman Carl Nathe said the effigy was found Wednesday morning in a high-traffic area between a classroom building and parking garage. Police immediately took it down but released no information about their investigation.
University President Lee Todd said he planned to apologize to the Obama family on behalf of the school and that he is "personally offended and deeply embarrassed by this disgusting episode."
Federal authorities have been notified, Todd said. He said the effigy violates the university's code of ethics and won't be tolerated."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081030/ap_on_re_us/obama_effigy_5;_ylt=AmyyzRKQOSw3_KLfMZD_wGwSq594

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:43:17 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		It is unfortunate that one of the byproducts of the man's candidacy is an increase in these detestable acts.Challenge the status quo and the fringe gets frisky,simply appalling.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:51:05 PM   
TheHeretic


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Status: offline 		            Still covered by the First Amendment.  

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:52:36 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		Palin's effigy wasn't a hate crime; Obama's was.  This is simply because of how the term hate crime is defined.  From the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html

quote:

A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.


So far I don't think being motivated by a candidate's stupidity is quite enough to be considered a hate crime.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:53:51 PM   
MzMia


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Status: offline 		These "crimes" will never end, kitten.
I fully expect to "hear" about several every month for the
next decade or so.
This is actually nothing in comparison to what we will soon be seeing.
People at their very worse.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:55:23 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

           Still covered by the First Amendment.  
Don't think so Heretic.Hanging a black man in effigy is not "free speech" it is an attempt at intimidation and has been used in the past in this country to cow and strike fear into minority communities...but you know that,don't you?

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:55:43 PM   
MadRabbit


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Status: offline 		Unless we can somehow reads minds and know for certain that this symbol has racial meaning behind it as is the required qualification for the bullshit hate crime law, (As if somehow the damage caused by crime is somehow amplified because of a certain motive and therefore making it deserving of a stricter punishment. Sorry, Susie! A shame you couldn't prove he hated women at the time he raped you and destroyed your life. He would have got a more severe sentence!) then it does not qualify as a hate crime.

Anything else is just our own personal interruptation of the symbols.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:57:15 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

Palin's effigy wasn't a hate crime; Obama's was.  This is simply because of how the term hate crime is defined.  From the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html

quote:

A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.


So far I don't think being motivated by a candidate's stupidity is quite enough to be considered a hate crime.



Aww, look! Here is a mind reader now.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:57:24 PM   
persephonee


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Status: offline 		gawd...can you imagine the carnage if stupidity were included....the glut on the legal system....would crush it.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:58:44 PM   
ChainGoddess


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Status: offline 		Why do people feel the need to be so nasty.  There is only one word I can think of to describe these people..idiots. 

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 6:59:16 PM   
persephonee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Unless we can somehow reads minds and know for certain that this symbol has racial meaning behind it as is the required qualification for the bullshit hate crime law, (As if somehow the damage caused by crime is somehow amplified because of a certain motive and therefore making it deserving of a stricter punishment. Sorry, Susie! A shame you couldn't prove he hated women at the time he raped you and destroyed your life. He would have got a more severe sentence!) then it does not qualify as a hate crime.

Anything else is just our own personal interruptation of the symbols.


im going to be late for work....MR...please tell me how there is any room for interpretation as to the symbols in the incident....

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:02:45 PM   
Naga


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quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

Palin's effigy wasn't a hate crime; Obama's was. This is simply because of how the term hate crime is defined. From the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html

quote:

A hate crime, also known as a bias crime, is a criminal offense committed against a person, property, or society that is motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender’s bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, or ethnicity/national origin.


So far I don't think being motivated by a candidate's stupidity is quite enough to be considered a hate crime.



[sarcasm]Then the effigy against Palin would be a hate crime (as stupid as the whole concept of a "hate crime" is). It was, after all, against a woman. [/sarcasm]

Now if they can show the effigy of Obama was because he was Arabic, excuse me, black, then it might qualify. I personally think it was because it was because of his political views just as the one against Sarah was.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:03:48 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

quote:

ORIGINAL: MadRabbit

Unless we can somehow reads minds and know for certain that this symbol has racial meaning behind it as is the required qualification for the bullshit hate crime law, (As if somehow the damage caused by crime is somehow amplified because of a certain motive and therefore making it deserving of a stricter punishment. Sorry, Susie! A shame you couldn't prove he hated women at the time he raped you and destroyed your life. He would have got a more severe sentence!) then it does not qualify as a hate crime.

Anything else is just our own personal interruptation of the symbols.


im going to be late for work....MR...please tell me how there is any room for interpretation as to the symbols in the incident....


Politicians in nooses has a history of being used in protest against their politics and viewpoints.

Black men in nooses has a history of being used as a symbol to express racial hatred.

Whether the Barrack Obama doll was hung because he was black or because he was a politician is unknown.

Everyone is just assuming it's a symbol of racial hatred and not one of protest against him as a politician.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:05:27 PM   
persephonee


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Status: offline 		No offense...but is it to be taken into consideration that it was done in Kentucky? i wasnt thrilled with the Palin thing...but this offends me and makes me sad in a much deeper way.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:07:39 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

No offense...but is it to be taken into consideration that it was done in Kentucky? i wasnt thrilled with the Palin thing...but this offends me and makes me sad in a much deeper way.


You can take it into consideration in your personal assumption all you want.

The question was asked "Is it a hate crime?"

I'm quite proud to live in a country where we determine crimes based on fact and not assumption.

I'm so proud of that that I am personally going to require some fact before personally declaring it a hate crime.



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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:21:35 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

          Still covered by the First Amendment.  
Don't think so Heretic.Hanging a black man in effigy is not "free speech" it is an attempt at intimidation and has been used in the past in this country to cow and strike fear into minority communities...but you know that,don't you?


As much as I am disqusted by the choice of the symbol used in this case and in the case of Sarah Palin, I hope one day I can live in a country that isn't so color-blinded that the automatic assumption to something like this is that he was hung for being a politician and not that he was hung for being black.

Then maybe people could use the same symbol that people used to display their disdain for Sarah Palin as a politician without going to jail for it as well.



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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:25:02 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
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From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Regardless of motivation (hatred towards woman, blacks, gays etc) a "hate crime" is also qualified by the committing of a criminal offense---ie..assault, murder, rape, destruction of one's property etc.   I don't think effigys are considered criminal offenses.  Though I could be wrong. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

Palin's effigy wasn't a hate crime; Obama's was.  This is simply because of how the term hate crime is defined.  From the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/hate_crime/index.html 



Edited to fix quote boxes.



< Message edited by marieToo -- 10/29/2008 7:26:13 PM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:30:59 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		Well MadRabbit to achieve this utopia you dream of....would require a lack of knowledge of our own dark history where lynchings were used to intimidate...How would you propose to achiee this ignorance in the general population.

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:34:20 PM   
MadRabbit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Well MadRabbit to achieve this utopia you dream of....would require a lack of knowledge of our own dark history where lynchings were used to intimidate...How would you propose to achiee this ignorance in the general population.


It's actually not that hard.

People just have to stop assuming they know what the meaning of a symbol is (which you don't). It's the height of arrogance and racial biast.

I find that your so ready to condemn some college kids to jail when you have no facts as to what they were trying to communicate to be even more disqusting then the symbol itself.

God help me if your ever on my jury.


< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 10/29/2008 7:35:38 PM >

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RE: Is it a hate crime? Part II. - 10/29/2008 7:40:40 PM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: persephonee

No offense...but is it to be taken into consideration that it was done in Kentucky? i wasnt thrilled with the Palin thing...but this offends me and makes me sad in a much deeper way.


Reading the thread, I find Mad Rabbit to be on point, and intelligently arguing the issue.  Kudos, MR.

As for some others ... well, they appear to be exposing their own prejudice, and narrow-minded belief in stereotypes.

Firm


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