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RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/30/2008 11:05:45 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

For any citizen to legally own an M16, one must apply to the ATF and once passed, buy an expensive tax stamp to allow a full automatic gun to be possesed.  99% of the assault rifle classed guns in the hands of civilians are semi-automatic only.  The tax stamp generally costs more than the gun itself, so therefore, its just not worth it to most people.


Uh, this is laughably wrong.  The tax stamp WAS a fortune in 1934 when it came into effect, $200 was a lot of money but it is a pittance today.  The cheapest machineguns are $4,000 and something like a Colt Thompson is nearer to $50,000.

(in reply to Joenextdoor)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/30/2008 11:20:46 PM   
Moloch


Posts: 1090
Joined: 6/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

For any citizen to legally own an M16, one must apply to the ATF and once passed, buy an expensive tax stamp to allow a full automatic gun to be possesed.  99% of the assault rifle classed guns in the hands of civilians are semi-automatic only.  The tax stamp generally costs more than the gun itself, so therefore, its just not worth it to most people.


Uh, this is laughably wrong.  The tax stamp WAS a fortune in 1934 when it came into effect, $200 was a lot of money but it is a pittance today.  The cheapest machineguns are $4,000 and something like a Colt Thompson is nearer to $50,000.


Uhh the 200 dollar tax is on the silencer. You can OWN a full auto weapon but they were banned since 1986 of somewhere around that time. So no if you want an M16 go track one down (good luck with that) and pay 16,000

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:02:01 AM   
vegeta


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/14/2004
Status: offline 		Save your guns,save your ammo.You are going to need them. If ba bama bans your right to bare arms,like he did in Chicago,criminals will run rampant. Crimials don't like people owning guns.They worry about getting shot during their home invasion roberies or when they rob banks and liquor stores or when the car jack.
Chicago and D.C. are the murder capitals of the world because the criminals have guns and the law abiding citizens are defenceless.

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:31:22 AM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

So, let me ask, does the United States have a lower murder rate or less deaths per capita caused by guns than England or Australia? 

How about a lower overall crime rate?

Funny how that works, huh?

Hilarious. However, the first relevant issue of concern should be the murder rate period, not just murder "by guns". And the second relevant issue of concern should be the rate of violent crime, not the "overall crime rate".
 
Funny how that works.
 
K.
 
 

< Message edited by Kirata -- 10/31/2008 12:35:44 AM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 4:59:24 AM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

isn't Jim Brady the one that took a bullet in the head when Reagan was shot?

Yep...dats the guy.  One minute a hard corps gunslinger the next minute a whiney lil bitch calling for the confiscation of all those nasty ol guns.
 
H.

Brady was still relearning how to speak when the bill with his name on it was passed.  A bullet in the brainpan tends to do that to a person.  
The funny thing is that the gun that shot him would still have been legal under the ban.  Also, an average citizen is not allowed to own a fully auto weapon without going through the proper channels.  This was in effect prior to 1985.  The Brady Bill did not change that.  I have a number of friends who own such weapons and are only legal to do so because of federal collectors' licenses. 

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 5:46:36 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		The Supreme Court has ruled on the proper interpretation of the 2nd Amendment...only a further Constitutional Amendment or further Supreme Court decision can alter the landscape now.

DC vs. Heller May Help, June, 2008.
candystripper 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 10/31/2008 5:51:33 AM >

(in reply to Evility)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 6:05:45 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Someone needs to read up on their gun laws and someone else need to read up on gun prices. Im in Michigan I used to be a gun dealer. You will not posess an automatic weapon unless you are a liscensed dealer. Go on line to Dunhams Sporting goods stores and check out the price on a thompson machine gun. It will not be an automatic because you can't own an automatic. You can shoot a semi automatic as fast as you can pull the triger. Same effect. Big deal. How many of those rounds will go in the bullseye. Liscensed collectors can own an automatic one with special permission.

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 6:42:45 AM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Jejune? Oh cool you used a dictionary word! I opened a history books and I read about it, backs outproduced native American and white slaves that dropped like flies especially in the tropical climates.


All the words I use in my post are in the dictionary not just the ones you do not know.
While it is possible that you read a history book your post indicates you did not comprehend what you read. 
People,no matter what their ethnic origin, who are aclimated to the tropics fair better than those who are not and vice versa.

H.

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 6:57:52 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline 		What truely amazes me about threads such as this one - any political or religious thread, really - is that any of us have the unweaning hubris to think we're actually going to change the mind of anyone of an opposing view who happens to post a reply to that given thread.  It matters not one whit to anyone other than ourselves what our personal opinions are.  It matters even less whether we publically proclaim those opinions.
 
Those who oppose individual weapon ownership are going to continue to oppose it, and come up with arguements (however specious I might consider the arguement) against it.  Those of us who favor individual weapon ownership are going to continue to be in favor, continue to own, continue to shoot when the mood strikes us to do so, and continue to silently (and sometimes not so silently) hold a touch of scorn for those who eschew their rights in the name of protecting us from ourselves. 
 
Those who would give up Liberty for the sake of Safety deserve neither.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:13:40 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moloch

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joenextdoor

For any citizen to legally own an M16, one must apply to the ATF and once passed, buy an expensive tax stamp to allow a full automatic gun to be possesed.  99% of the assault rifle classed guns in the hands of civilians are semi-automatic only.  The tax stamp generally costs more than the gun itself, so therefore, its just not worth it to most people.


Uh, this is laughably wrong.  The tax stamp WAS a fortune in 1934 when it came into effect, $200 was a lot of money but it is a pittance today.  The cheapest machineguns are $4,000 and something like a Colt Thompson is nearer to $50,000.


Uhh the 200 dollar tax is on the silencer. You can OWN a full auto weapon but they were banned since 1986 of somewhere around that time. So no if you want an M16 go track one down (good luck with that) and pay 16,000



http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#m1

A machine gun with a silencer requires TWO tax stamps, one for the gun and other for the silencer.

(in reply to Moloch)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:17:15 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

criminals will run rampant. Crimials don't like people owning guns.They worry about getting shot during their home invasion roberies


The criminals where you live must not be very bright.

Here, they do the sensible thing, and rob homes when the owners are away.

Happened to my neighbor a few years ago. They stole---and I am not joking--his guns.

(in reply to vegeta)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:19:33 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Chicago and D.C. are the murder capitals of the world


Your post is not accurate.
Something like thirty five or forty nations have a higher murder rate than the U.S.

H.

(in reply to vegeta)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:23:47 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		You are both incorrect.

By country, Hunter is correct. By individual city, however, D.C. is high on the list.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:26:40 PM   
HunterS


Posts: 553
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Brady was still relearning how to speak when the bill with his name on it was passed.


The "Brady Bill" was passed and signed into law 12 years after Jim Brady was shot.  The same year he got his Phd.
He and his wife are both republicrats.

H. 

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:51:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Don't you find it interesting that the same people who are against setting a minimum wage are in favor or not having an upper limit on how much one can earn?
It is OK to pay a person a wage that they can starve to death slowly on but making more money than one could spend if a hundred lifetimes is considered a worthy goal. 
Hatred of welfare for the poor is compensated for by love of welfare for the rich.

H.


I agree.
As a "Lou Dobbs Populist" I have no use for Dems or Repubs.
As for a minimum wage it should be a realistic wage say $25-$30 per hour so that you could actually live off of it.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 12:58:34 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		If we are going to bear arms in order to have a militia available, as was the original intent of Jefferson et al, then we ought to do it like Switzerland does. Every head of household must own and know how to operate a gun that is picked by the government. They need to bring it in to the police to be checked once a year like we need cars inspected. And just as we need our licenses renewed, and can have them revoked, that's how it works with guns there.

The gun in question is chosen by the government, a rifle I believe. Plus it is mandated that in the house it is kept locked with the ammunition in a separately locked drawer.

But really, if I wake up at 3:00 AM I'm not going to be coherent enough to get, load and operate a gun safely. I much prefer a dog. The time the bear tried to break in, I wasn't going to wait until he had before being allowed to shoot him, nor was I planning on joining him on the porch and start shooting rubber bullets at him. The dog drove him off.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 1:05:51 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Can't wait to see you explain to the Conservatives that we should follow Europe's lead!

;-)



(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 1:16:06 PM   
Irishknight


Posts: 2016
Joined: 9/30/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

quote:


Brady was still relearning how to speak when the bill with his name on it was passed.


The "Brady Bill" was passed and signed into law 12 years after Jim Brady was shot.  The same year he got his Phd.
He and his wife are both republicrats.

H. 


You are correct on the timing.  My apologies.  However, it was still done in his name and he spoke out against it.  I had just finished an over night shift.  There was legislation passed ver quickly.  I seem to have confused it with the Brady Bill.  Regardless, the BB also would not have stopped the selling of the weapon that shot him.  It was an attempt to start the destruction of our 2nd ammendment rights by gun haters.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 1:39:50 PM   
ThatDaveGuy69


Posts: 978
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline 		OK, here's the one I want, with a truckload of ammo, helicopter optional:

http://shock.military.com/Shock/videos.do?displayContent=177608&ESRC=dod.nl

Rediculous?  As I asked before: Where do you draw the line, or should there even BE a line?  As pointed out, it is both difficult and expensive for an individual to -legally- own a fully automatic weapon.  That is one part of gun control in the US.  So at what point should the type of gun I can own be limited?  Shotguns: OK. Hand guns: OK.  Non-automatic assult-style rifles: OK.  But a fully automatic rifle: nope.  And yet these ARE available and the gun lobby would like them to be legal.  So let's say they become legal.  Can I then spend a small fortune on the mini-gun of my dreams?

BTW: Obama did not ban guns in Chicago.  That was courtesy of King Richard II, aka Mayor-for-Life Rich Daley long before Mr Obama was in politics.  And yet somehow we still have a lot of people being killed by guns.  Go figure.

Isn't one definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result?  Just sayin'...

~Dave


_____________________________

He said I'd blown a seal. I said fix the damn thing and leave my private life out of this!
What happens in the event horizon STAYS in the Event Horizon!
I have zero tolerance for Zero Tolerance

(in reply to Irishknight)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: This election and the 2nd Amendment. - 10/31/2008 2:24:00 PM   
JumpingJax


Posts: 155
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69

Rediculous? As I asked before: Where do you draw the line, or should there even BE a line?




I don't know that I see a reason for any restrictions on gun sales. The purpose of the 2nd amendment was to allow us the means in which to overthrow the goverment when necessary. The goverment will be using Tanks and fully automatic weapons to continue their tyranny. Why shouldn't we be allowed to use the same?

(in reply to ThatDaveGuy69)
Profile   Post #: 140
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