If you Love me, you will hurt me.

If you Love me, you will hurt me. (Full Version)

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WhiplashSmile2 -> If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 10:07:38 AM)
Another thread inspired me to make this posting. I wanted to share these thoughts with other Doms/tops who are not masochistic, however have partners (submissives/bottoms) that are. For me it's rather easy to identify and connect with the masochistic burning desires of anybody, because I myself have a masochistic streak. On the flip side, I can fully understand the reluctance at time to inflict pain upon somebody you love and care about. I also have a Daddy Dom side as well. The loving, protective, and nurturing side. For the most part a Sadomaso Daddy Dom is perhaps the best set of labels for me, at least at this point in time in my life. My heart sank this morning reading another thread, started by a submissive. Her Master/Daddy is having issues with hurting her. His Daddy Dom side/mode kicks in and he can't seem to work past it. This issue appears to be a not so uncommon one that some people face. I would urge anybody who Loves a partner who has a masochistic, to explore the depth of their love, and look at inflicting pain upon their parter (sub/bottom) as a symbolic act of Love itself. That you are doing something that pleases your partner, that they trust you. In fact dare I express this to all the Doms/Tops out there, you need to have faith and trust your submissive/bottom partner that you are not causing them any true harm. Trust that you are indeed doing something that pleases them and inflicting pain itself is about Love and Trust. I myself have had to work at reassuring my past partners, that it's OK to hurt me, to inflict pain, that I Love them, that they are not causing me any great harm. If you Love me, you will hurt me. Please... There are moments when I actually need pain, to help me refocus my thoughts. I need and desire pain, where it's a form of a Reset Button for me. I have a craving for very specific types of pain. Somebody inflicting pain upon me itself is an act of love, and it's also an act of Trust. Where they have to Trust that they are doing something to me out of love, not hate or anger. That's it's OK. That I can physically and mentally take it. No real harm caused. Even if I'm sore for a few days afterwards or even if it leaves me with some small physical scar. I myself have a few "Love scars" upon my own body. Whenever I look at these scars they are reminders of a special place and moment in time. I smile, and I'm filled with a special warmth. It's a touchstone to a special moment with somebody special from my past. As a Daddy Dom, I want to love, protect, and nurture my partner. To have no real great harm come to them. I myself feel aweful when I have done something unintentionally to hurt the very person I love with all my heart. I myself feel aweful when I have hurtful spoken words out of anger, perhaps not in the moment, but afterwards, I will find myself with regret. I totally understand the mindset of Love and caring for somebody. For I myself have loved and have been loved in this world. My sadistic streak is a bit complex, there are many different motivations behind my sadism. One of them is Love though. I made a post awhile back sort of bullet pointing the many different sources of my sadism, reasons why I do the things I do. Hell, it can even be a great form of stress relief for me as well. Mentally though, I know that my partner has offered their body to me out of love or because they enjoy recieving pain. For the most part many people's source of sadism comes from a well of dark places, and dark thoughts. Sources that are not rooted in Love per se, then when they fall in Love with somebody, those sources are in great and mortal conflict with Love. It's a bit of a mindfuck to wrap your mind around it, but if you Love somebody and they wanted you to hurt them, and they trusted you, could you still do it. If somebody Loves you and wants to absorb your own deep pains and you love them, would you hurt them? For the most part so little emphasis is placed upon LOVE in S&M play. It tends to be about things a little more Darker and well anything but Loving. However, S&M play can be one of the most loving, trusting, connected things you can do with one another in a Loving Relationship. To fully understand it, one has to understand the Masochistic mindset, desires and thirst for painful and rough activities. I'm not talking about a none masochistic partner who offers their body to one out of love and will endure it. I'm talking about somebody who actually enjoys pains. Perhaps it's time for some people to rethink things a little ever so often. Step outside of ourselves and put ourselves in our partners frame of mind for a moment. For me it's easy to do, because I can indentify with a number of sides of the dice here. The Sadistic side, the Masochistic side, and the Daddy Dom (or Loving side). I would urge anybody who is having issues with hurting their masochistic partner to rethink for a moment... "If you love me, you will hurt me"... "I trust you, please trust me that you are not causing me any great or real harm"... The pain you inflict is indeed an expression of your love for me. Something for people to think about for a moment.

JustDarkness -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 10:12:33 AM)
quote: I would urge anybody who is having issues with hurting their masochistic partner to rethink for a moment... it think it is a 2 way street. Both sides should think about it. Not just the one that is new "to hurting". But I found it very interesting to read. I had problems with it in the past myself....hitting a kajira which I loved. And she expected it..enjoyed it... Talking helped..and mutual understanding

Symbiosis -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 10:31:40 AM)
My thanks for a timely and reassuring reminder. In a time of great change within myself your words will serve to remind me of one aspect of this life we lead. Hopefully they will help me to learn a little bit more about myself and this thing that I know I am but sometimes struggle with. My deepest thanks.

lilmissattitude -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 10:45:01 AM)
thank you...i was starting to wonder why i had even posted the origianl thread as it seemed to not get any real help. you have helped to bring me the words that my heart was trying to say. thank you again

persephonee -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 10:48:49 AM)
lil...what was your original thread?

Rover -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:09:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2 "If you love me, you will hurt me"... "I trust you, please trust me that you are not causing me any great or real harm"... The pain you inflict is indeed an expression of your love for me. Something for people to think about for a moment. I'm not fond of statements that sound like threats... or tests. I recall early on that I had a difficult time getting beyond the societal prejudice that men simply don't hit women... under any circumstances. It's not so easy to do, or at least was not so for me. And it had nothing to do with whether I loved her, or how much I loved her. It was my own demons I had to conquer. It's fair to note that I found it immensely helpful to really understand, appreciate and accept the fact that she enjoyed it. We talked... a lot. She gave me lots of feedback before, during and after scenes. And without that I don't know if I would have been able to succeed. Maybe it's fair to note that I'm not a sadist in the classical sense (I am admittedly quite sadistic in other ways that don't include impact play). Maybe it would have been different if I were. But if i were confronted with "if you love me, you'll hurt me" I'd be very tempted to reply "I'm doing my best and if you love me you'd keep your yap shut next time you're tempted to say something like that". And I say that not to pick on the OP, but as an honest expression of how I would respond. John

missturbation -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:15:44 AM)
quote: I'm not fond of statements that sound like threats... or tests. I agree with rover, this kind of guilt trip ultimatum is not on to me. Taking the statement at face value without finding it annoying, it doesnt matter if i love someone more than life itself, if its not in me to be sadistic its not in me. You can teach someone to use a flogger and you can teach them to use it really well. You cant however teach someone to have a genuine love of hurting someone with said flogger. You are either sadistic or you are not.

antipode -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:26:43 AM)
So where's the profile?

Coatch -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:27:15 AM)
Anyone who buys into Obama's line of B.S. needs to reconsider, he will supposedly spend fortunes on socia;ograms, and lower taxes for the working people and raise them for the wealthy and that will cover the expenses? oh yeag abd the wealthy will jst jump on the bandwagon and mkick in like they have always done in the past?//// uuulleezzz i need some more syrup for my obama waffles.

Coatch -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:29:11 AM)
Yes but you will love it.

cagliostro -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:34:11 AM)
I don't see the statement as a challenge or ultimatum. Rather as a plea. And I don't see why it's any different than asking to go to her parent's house. Do you really want to do it, or are you doing it to please her? She enjoys it, so enjoy her enjoyment. Simple.

OttersSwim -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:35:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Coatch Anyone who buys into Obama's line of B.S. needs to reconsider, he will supposedly spend fortunes on socia;ograms, and lower taxes for the working people and raise them for the wealthy and that will cover the expenses? oh yeag abd the wealthy will jst jump on the bandwagon and mkick in like they have always done in the past?//// uuulleezzz i need some more syrup for my obama waffles. Are you lost? points to the Off Topic Discussion forum To the OP: I agree that this feels like emotional blackmail to me as well. If there are two consenting adults - one of whom says "Please hurt me, M'Kay?" and the other who says "Okay, I like that, yaknow..." and the one says "Ya, me too, let's get it on!" then that's one thing...

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:38:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: I'm not fond of statements that sound like threats... or tests. I agree with rover, this kind of guilt trip ultimatum is not on to me. Taking the statement at face value without finding it annoying, it doesnt matter if i love someone more than life itself, if its not in me to be sadistic its not in me. You can teach someone to use a flogger and you can teach them to use it really well. You cant however teach someone to have a genuine love of hurting someone with said flogger. You are either sadistic or you are not. This one of those cases where tone of voice, and how something is said makes all the difference in the world. One thing that is not easy to express nor communicate in words alone. At times it's not what is said, it's how it's said along with other words. Just taking one statement without a full context of surrounding conversation does not do justice at times. Still none the less, what I have expressed here is about the concept. It's not about how to threaten and intimidate your partners. It's about communicating the Loving aspects to S&M. The love can serve as the inspiration behind inflicting pain, instead of all that dark stuff. Hence, is the main focus of this thread. I think anybody with any reading comprehension skills would be smart enough to figure this one out, with feeling the dire need to rip apart a statement that is not indeeded to be a threat. However, Yes... hurting somebody I suppose can be a test. Yes, I guess I am calling people out on this one, because this issue comes up and it fucks with a persons relationship. So Yes, It's a bit of Test for somebody who is faced with these issues. A Test for both sides. The person who desires the pain and the one who is the one giving it. It's only through being TESTED that we can truely grow. This should be a bit of a no brainer Foundation thing in any Relationship and even more so with BDSM lifestyle relationships. The only threat that can be taken about this, are the threats you make up inside your own head, which would generally mean some form of Fear was being challenged. A threat is only good if it confronts a real fear or issue. At times things people express can become threatening even if no threat was intended. Tends to inadvertantly walk upon an insecurity of some form like it was a hidden land mine in the field of life. Yes, inflicting pain upon somebody you LOVE can be a real TEST. The question is can you pass it or not? Because if you partner has a true burning desire for Pain, or even a need for it. To deny them of this well frankly can be rather selfish if you don't want to do it because it makes you feel bad inside. That's rather self centered in my opinion. Self centered meaning that one is only focused upon how it makes themself feel. Just because what I wrote on here might upset a few people, or they find it somewhat distressing, threating, or even as a test. What I wrote actually is a bit of a challenge or a test to make people think for a moment. So sure, call it a test. If you feel threaten by the words I used, so much the better. Generally threats have some form of conditional do this or else attachment to it. In many regards, issues like this can cause problems that can lead to the dismise of a relationship. So, I guess there is a sort of Do it or else risk leaving your partner unfillfulled.. then having them find somebody else who can fullfill these needs in the end. If you find that threatening, all the more reason to give this a little more thought. At least this is my view on the matter.

JustDarkness -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:46:08 AM)
quote: Yes, inflicting pain upon somebody you LOVE can be a real TEST. The question is can you pass it or not? Because if you partner has a true burning desire for Pain, or even a need for it. To deny them of this well frankly can be rather selfish if But./..but...that whole line of text sounds egoistic/selfish aswell. If you are in a relation..then it is "give and take". And not saying "selfish"when someone has a different look at things.

Rover -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:49:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile2 It's only through being TESTED that we can truely grow. Actually, that's not true. Testing may reveal or quantify growth. The threat of a test may even provide some level of negative motivation. But testing itself is not causal in nature. John

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:56:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation quote: I'm not fond of statements that sound like threats... or tests. I agree with rover, this kind of guilt trip ultimatum is not on to me. Taking the statement at face value without finding it annoying, it doesnt matter if i love someone more than life itself, if its not in me to be sadistic its not in me. You can teach someone to use a flogger and you can teach them to use it really well. You cant however teach someone to have a genuine love of hurting someone with said flogger. You are either sadistic or you are not. If you can reprogram your mind to rethink of things as being; inflicting pleasure instead of pain. That it's an act of love and not sadism. If you can take pleasure in knowing you are pleasing one. If you are a slave, and you believe and give of yourself with your whole mind, body and soul to serve and please your master. Then you should be able to please a master who has a slight sadistic streak. You will know in your heart that you are inflicting pleasure, that you are pleasuring your master. You have conquered your own internal hangups inorder to serve. Basically, All I have to express is that as a Slave you would be letting your own internal issues become an issue here. :-P I have to play the slave and Mastercards here on you, but.. I'm attempting to express things from a different angle. Where "Serving" and "Pleasing" is the source of inspiration in engaging in inflicting pain upon another. as a Master in a M/s relationship, I should be able to request for my slave to pick up a flogger and use it upon my back in a manner, that pleases me. She should without question know that she is "Pleasing me" that she is being a "Service". If she has issues in doing so, then I do not truely own her heart, mind, body and soul like I should in a TPE M/s relationship. The only issues preventing this from happening are her own internal issues and struggles within. This again applied to a M/s TPE relationship. I would have to work with her, doing some training and engage in a little thought process reprogramming. This sounds like a much more heavy handed process then how it actually needs to be. Again, inflicting pain upon somebody does not require sadism. Being a sadist is not a requirement for holding a flogger and using it. As you yourself pointed out.

missturbation -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 11:59:48 AM)
quote: This one of those cases where tone of voice, and how something is said makes all the difference in the world. One thing that is not easy to express nor communicate in words alone. At times it's not what is said, it's how it's said along with other words. Just taking one statement without a full context of surrounding conversation does not do justice at times I am sorry but i have to disagree with you on this one. There is no way you could say that statement to me and i would not see it as an ultimatum. I think you made a bad choice of words for the content and ideas behind your thread. As an aside i went on to answer your thread with my opinions about the idea behind it. I did not make any attempt to rip what you had said apart as you stated. Over sensitive much. Edited because i see you replied to my reply to your actual thread now. You have me completely baffled by your reply. Im a masochist and hell if i wasnt i would put up with some level of pain to please him. However if i was a Dom and not sadistic i would not choose a slave who was masochistic. If i dont get anything out of it, why would i? I think what you are speaking of a non sadistic master and a masochistic slave is just a description of a bad match.

kyraofMists -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 12:04:46 PM)
"If you love me, you will do X" is emotional manipulation. The masochist saying to the non-sadist, "if you love me, you would hurt me" can just as easily be turned back around and the non-sadist can say "if you loved me, you wouldn't ask me to do something that goes against who I am". If causing pain makes the non-sadist feel awful about themselves then how horribly selfish of the masochist to essentially say, prove your love me by doing something that makes you feel bad so that I can feel good. There are other ways to have constructive dialogue and express wants, desires and needs without resorting to "if you love me". Knight's Kyra

colouredin -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 12:04:51 PM)
Fr I think i can kinda see your point, its that we may have desires that dont seem 'normal' and getting your head around that can be hard. The idea that one can be most happy when making someone else happy is one that is difficult to explain to those who dont feel it. You can serve someone by topping them, something that the.darkness always expresses really well in relation to her and Darcy. I do agree that the expression "you will do this if you love me" is bad, but i think its something that goes unsaid. We do do things for loved ones that we wouldnt ness choose to do ourselves. We just dont articulate it.

WhiplashSmile2 -> RE: If you Love me, you will hurt me. (10/31/2008 12:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cagliostro I don't see the statement as a challenge or ultimatum. Rather as a plea. And I don't see why it's any different than asking to go to her parent's house. Do you really want to do it, or are you doing it to please her? She enjoys it, so enjoy her enjoyment. Simple. Thank you, this was how I intended for it to be in the first place. However it appears to be precieved as being a threat instead of a plea. Yes, it actually is rather simple as well, and I'm amazed at the number of people that make it more complex due to their own internal hang-up.

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