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5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 12:00:41 PM

bestbabync

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http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv3n1.pdf

i found this article and wanted to share it with everyone. seems we may soon be seeing this happening here in the good ole USA!

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 12:22:35 PM

DomKen

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You might try using something not produced by a libertarian outfit to get an unbiased opinion on single payer systems.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 12:27:41 PM

bestbabync

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.....

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 12:30:03 PM

popeye1250

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It's not "socialised medicine" if we're all paying for it through our taxes, is it?
Hillary had the best plan for National Healthcare.
I think we should have a National Healthcare Plan, we're the last industrialised country to *not* have one.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 1:32:30 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I'm generally libertarian minded on most things, but I think we should have some sort of National Healthcare plan too. I know a lot of people that don't have any coverage, and they don't qualify for Medicaid. If something happens, they're essentially fucked. No one should have their credit and finances destroyed because they get sick.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 1:41:58 PM

kittinSol

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Have you ever lived in a country that has national healthcare? It's pretty fucking fantastic - so much less expensive for everybody in the long run - but perhaps you enjoy paying out of the skin of your ass and relish the idea of being taxed on your healthcare plan

.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 2:23:04 PM

stagerle

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I find the idea of living some place that doesnt have a national health care strange. In the UK we bitch about our health system and foget how hard it was to get.
Am curious what worrys people in America about the idea of a national health service?

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 2:28:59 PM

handmaid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stagerle
Am curious what worrys people in America about the idea of a national health service?

Indoctrination: these people worry that anything that would benefit others is socialistic, subversive, radical, and against God's will.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 2:31:40 PM

candystripper

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bestbabynyc, what on earth makes you think the US is about to adopt a National Health Care System?

I think you can rest easy, if it worries you, as the greed of the pharameactical companies, insurance industry, etc. is most likely powerful enough to block such a thing from happening at least during your lifetime.

starglre, I have heard some 'horror' stories from people dependent on their NHS about waiting 2 years for a hip replacement, etc. I admit I'm not entirely comfy with the government getting in the health care delivery system...but I am quite comfy with furnishing taxpayer-paid care to the poor and uninsured, of which we have many.

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< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/1/2008 2:32:30 PM >

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 2:46:52 PM

monywildcat

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I am not holding my breath that the good ol' US of A is going to implement any type of national healthcare system. Which is a crying shame, as I am one of those people that don't currently have health insurance and I don't qualify for Medicaid. With winter fast approaching and bringing with it cold and flu season, I am pretty much fucked when I get strep throat this winter.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 2:47:23 PM

Darias

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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

bestbabynyc, what on earth makes you think the US is about to adopt a National Health Care System?

I think you can rest easy, if it worries you, as the greed of the pharameactical companies, insurance industry, etc. is most likely powerful enough to block such a thing from happening at least during your lifetime.

starglre, I have heard some 'horror' stories from people dependent on their NHS about waiting 2 years for a hip replacement, etc. I admit I'm not entirely comfy with the government getting in the health care delivery system...but I am quite comfy with furnishing taxpayer-paid care to the poor and uninsured, of which we have many.

candystripper

when the difference is between two years wait or getting your savings credit and assets wiped out .... hmmm

ive worked for the NHS in the UK and for the HSE here in Ireland.... yes there's bureaucracy and for non emergency cases a heck of a long wait... but there have been years where paying rent and buying food was a struggle. perversly enough those same lean years conincided with a car accident a bad fall down stairs a bar fight and some major dental work...

the saying about condoms works well here

its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

if I was in the situation you guys were in id say to hell with the medical companies etc lets drive this sucker through

p.s. not sure about the UK but here if the HSE introduces some big new care plan the private health insurance companies lower their premiums... just a thought

btw does living in a country with *socialised medicine * make me a commie?

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:29:09 PM

RealSub58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Have you ever lived in a country that has national healthcare? It's pretty fucking fantastic - so much less expensive for everybody in the long run - but perhaps you enjoy paying out of the skin of your ass and relish the idea of being taxed on your healthcare plan .

Yes I have and was even a healthcare professional within the system in 2 countries ~ one a third world and the other England. I have heard some 'horror' stories from people dependent on their NHS about waiting 2 years for a hip replacement, etc This is so far from the truth. Maybe in some selected, isolated areas, but a total exaggeration. Don't forget that socialized medicine or a national healthcare system also supports private healthcare, when paid for privately. It's about time the average citizen of the US takes on the insurance companies and the prohibitive cost of pharmaceutical companies. There is hardly any regulation so they can do as they wish. Get a mammogram at one health organization for $100 and at another $2000.Pay $56 for one script with insurance having paid their cost already and get the same at WalMart for $4. If the citizens voted it in, then the lobbyists and insurance companies and pharmaceutical industry would need to make the huge adjustments they should have been making long ago.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:35:50 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Have you ever lived in a country that has national healthcare? It's pretty fucking fantastic - so much less expensive for everybody in the long run - but perhaps you enjoy paying out of the skin of your ass and relish the idea of being taxed on your healthcare plan .

Yes I have and was even a healthcare professional within the system in 2 countries ~ one a third world and the other England.

Thanks - I was interested in the baby's reply, because of her anti-health for all cruisade on the forum boards. I'm curious as to whether she knows what she's talking about, specifically from a personal experience standpoint (something tells me she doesn't have a clue).

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:38:50 PM

faerytattoodgirl

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breaking news...the us has nationalized health care....with the death of bill gates...everyone can breathe easier!

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:38:59 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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Do hospitals still have those coloured lines painted on the floor? It's been such a long time since I've been in one. I don't want superbugitus.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:42:40 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

Am curious what worrys people in America about the idea of a national health service

Have you ever had to wait at the DMV?

Perhaps if the government pays for it but allows another entity to administer it maybe it could work. What about people who, as part of their employment receive the benefit of health care? Will they have equal coverage under a government plan? If not I'm not too interested. I have great coverage at the present time and would hate to be forced to opt out for something inferior.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:45:40 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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"Am curious what worrys people in America about the idea of a national health service?"

Like every damn thing else in the US it's all about the money.
Currently, insurance companies can charge pretty much whatever they please. They can deny benefits. They can claim pre-existing conditions. They can even dictate to hospitals how much to charge for a given procedure. And there isn't really any competition as all the insurance companies work in similar fashion.

Love her or hate her, Hillary Clinton tried her best to change the system but there is simply too much money involved. Maybe you didn't like the plans she proposed but at least she had the balls to try.

Obviously, this is a very simplistic explanation. There are all sorts of other factors such as tort reform, the FDA, the AMA, etc. And I don't know enough about all the plans that have been proposed over the years to give an opinion.

It seems every time National Healthcare is mentioned there is the knee-jerk cry of Socialism! To which I say: So the fuck what?! There are so many aspects of this country that are socilaist: education, fire & police protection, etc. I wish I knew the answer. One thing I do know is that what we have now doesn't work so well.

Why must a person have a job that pays at or above a certain level to get health insurance? At the job I lost 14 months ago, the employer paid the whole premium - about $1,100 per month. I had a 3-month run-out and was able to pay COBRA (paying the premium myself) for another 3 months. When I couldn't afford the payment the coverage stopped. I think that was in March, maybe April. In June, the Mrs tripped down all 7 stairs to the recroom. Her upper teeth met up with her lower teeth about half-way between her lower lip and the bottom of her chin. Six hours in the ER and 22 stitches later and we got a bill for over $8,000. Sadly, that's just one more item going into the bankruptcy bin when I can finally afford a lawyer.

So please - someone explain to me why we don't need some sort of national health care/isurance/whatever.

Once again I am reminded of that definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 3:59:24 PM

ThatDaveGuy69

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Katy:
The DMV is run by your state, not by the fed. Here in IL we put a guy in charge of the Secretary of States Office about a dozen years ago. He cleaned house like nobody's business! The 1st time I ever got a driver's license - like almost 30 yrs ago - it took hours! Thanks to a serious effort to make the office efficient, I can renew my license in about 20 minutes, depending on the crowd. And if my record is clean, I can renew by phone and get a little sticker in the mail to put on my license! I will admit that the fees have increased over the years - show me one that hasn't - but I'd rather spend $90 for my license plate sticker and get it in 5 minutes than pay less and wait for hours!

If your wait at the DMV is too long, pound on your state legislators!

The last I heard on any the proposed changes for some sort of national healthcare was that if you have insurance through your employer (like I used to) it would remain the same. One of the theories is that by having such a huge pool of people insured through the government, costs could be negotiated downward. I always find such a claim dubious at best but if costs could just be kept from rising, that would be a victory.

And once again I say: what we have does not work - something has got to change!

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 4:01:13 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

The DMV is run by your state, not by the fed.

Ever wait in line at the post office?

I know the DMV is run by the state government, sheesh. I'm making a point about government, in general, and how it is not the best steward of money or time.

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RE: 5 Myths of Socialized Medicine - 11/1/2008 4:02:35 PM

MadRabbit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Am curious what worrys people in America about the idea of a national health service

Have you ever had to wait at the DMV?

Perhaps if the government pays for it but allows another entity to administer it maybe it could work. What about people who, as part of their employment receive the benefit of health care? Will they have equal coverage under a government plan? If not I'm not too interested. I have great coverage at the present time and would hate to be forced to opt out for something inferior.

Pretty much. Given the history our government has with other nationalized programs (like Social Security) and their exuberant waste combined with their natural knack of fucking up anything they take away from the private sector, I think I have a pretty good reason to be skeptical.

I think socialist programs look really great on paper and are really nice thoughts, but just don't pragmatically work here in our bureaucracy which is why I am opposed to nationalizing really anything in comparison to privatization.

If we managed to deal with Social Security, then I would have a little more faith in the U.S of A pulling off a health care system without bankrupting itself.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 11/1/2008 4:03:09 PM >

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