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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 12:33:25 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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I wish he would stop using words like 'eschews' I have no idea how that sounds in my head apart from the sound of someone sneezing.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 12:50:20 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Carter was the last president to win a majority of the overall popular vote (in 1976).

I'll certainly take your word on the ignorance of college students, Muse, but could you clarify what you mean by the statement I snipped? I'm reading it as absolute, ignorant bullshit, as it stands. Did you leave an important modifier out of your post, or are you so deep in denial about Reagan's accomplishments that you simply blanked on the 1984 election?

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 12:52:41 PM

JCarnius

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Elite is the wrong word it is more like "corporist " the only difference between politicians is either they were born into it or if they had to work their way into it.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 1:05:04 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

but why does the ridiculous warning "he/she is from the elite" persist in politics?

It is the political tradition of this country. In the ideal, ours is a government that eschews aristocracy in favor of meritocracy.

Washington and Jefferson and co were the colonial aristocracy and the US hasn't been out of the hands of the American aristocracy ever since. There have been more leaders from poor backgrounds in European constitutional monarchies than the US.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 1:17:00 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

Did you leave an important modifier out of your post

You are correct. I did.

And you are correct about 1984.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 1:33:49 PM

DedicatedDom40

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0sNJhphi7U

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 1:37:07 PM

Musicmystery

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This is great! Laughed my ass off.

Thanks for sharing it.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:08:17 PM

celticlord2112

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quote:

Washington and Jefferson and co were the colonial aristocracy and the US hasn't been out of the hands of the American aristocracy ever since. There have been more leaders from poor backgrounds in European constitutional monarchies than the US.

Washington.
Andrew Jackson
Abraham Lincoln (R)
Ulysses S. Grant (R)
Harry Truman (D)
Dwight Eisenhower (R)
Lyndon Johnson (D)
Richard Nixon (R)
Ronald Reagan (R)
Bill Clinton (D)

Those are the Presidents off the top of my head who came from less than wealthy or privileged backgrounds.

Arguing that the US government has always been in the hands of "the aristocracy" is to argue against the facts of history.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:16:09 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Make sure the masses remain ignorant and uneducated so that they're easily manipulated and lied to with populist crap.

Kittin, are you sure you know what's going on at the top? The manipulation extends well beyond the 'ignorant and uneducated'.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:37:04 PM

TheHeretic

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       To address the original question, Muse, I think you illustrated my take on the issue very well yourself by describing the ignorance in the classroom. Yet by virtue of the piece of paper they will have handed to them anyway, they will move into society at the management level, and think they belong there.

       Some people get all the goodies handed to them, and soon develop a mentality that this is the natural order of things. They grow up out of touch with real struggle, and pass that along to the next generation. Not long ago, I talked to someone who described 'working his way through college' as doing ten hours a week in the cafeteria for movie money in the budget mommy gave him.

        If the "elites" somehow were superior, instead of merely convinced they were, there might be some good reason to elect them. As it is, they tend to forget about gravity too often.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:39:38 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Arguing that the US government has always been in the hands of "the aristocracy" is to argue against the facts of history.

I don't want to be pedantic but I said the US, not the US government has always been in the hands of the American colonial aristocracy. Presidents are front men. Who was working Reagan because I doubt he was working himself, he was senile while he was President. Eisenhower admitted he couldn't control the power of the military-industrial complex. Clinton was prevented from doing anything, Trueman was more or less pushed into nuking Japan, Grant, the planner of the Indian genocide, yep, redneck.

Seriously though, the richest couple of 1% own 40% of America, the nest 19% own 51%, the other 80% of Americans own 8% of America. That richest 1% is mainly old money.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/2/2008 2:44:12 PM >

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:42:02 PM

celticlord2112

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You contradict yourself.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:45:43 PM

meatcleaver

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Seriously though, the richest couple of 1% own 40% of America, the nest 19% own 51%, the other 80% of Americans own 8% of America. That richest 1% is mainly old money.

Money is power, not political position. As the current financial crisis proves, politicians bail out the rich, those that own them and shit on the rest.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:54:02 PM

came4U

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quote:

Money is power, not political position. As the current financial crisis proves, politicians bail out the rich, those that own them and shit on the rest.

Money is an invented form of false security as is the private corporation of the Federal Reserve of your nation. Privately owned and operated, nothing government owned, despite what 99.99% of the population believes.

Money isn't power, power is power. They have owned and over-powered the governements and the general public since formation of any ideals to unite some states together in some sort of stronghold of unity began.

The actual 'elitists' are people you will never hear of on the news nor see on any talk show. These are the invisible partners of crisis and mayem. Oh they occasionally toss in a bone like a bail-out, but that it all it is...a bag of treats to keep our teeth busy while they work on an actual plan to get your filthy, msg-feeder a$$es off the planet.

They are probably old and hideous to look at, but in general they got the right idea. LOL

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 2:57:46 PM

kdsub

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I think it is very basic...people worry about any small group gaining control over their lives. Just read the post of some here...they are forever insinuating that a secret group is behind every move of our government. How many times have you heard..." I don't care who is elected noting will change”.

It has little to do with education or IQ… it is just fear manifesting itself into irrationalities because of their insecurities in life.
Butch

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 3:10:22 PM

MistresseLotus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistresseLotus

quote:

ORIGINAL: JustDarkness

..some just enjoy mom and dads money.

We call those types "Euro-trash" over here :)

..and how do you think GWB would spell euro-trash while spending daddy's money?

"Eyourow-trash"? (actually he wouldn't.. he can't spell and he's still working on the proper pronunciation of nuclear.)

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 3:40:08 PM

Marc2b

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In politics, the word elite means different things when used by the Left and the Right. The Left actually has two meanings for the word, though they do overlap somewhat. The Left uses elite to mean “the richest one percent who own whatever percent of everything, blah blah blah…” and they use it to mean that such people think they are better than you because they have more money. The Right uses elite to mean people (read Liberals, who may or may not be rich) “who think they are morally and intellectually superior to you, and so feel justified in running your life for you blah, blah, blah....”

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 6:12:38 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is hardly new ground---Hermann Hesse especially examined the issue in depth in "The Glass Bead Game"--but why does the ridiculous warning "he/she is from the elite" persist in politics?

So we only want dumb people?

It's especially ridiculous when the charge comes from politicians who have inherited their place in society.

Who would those people be MM?

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/2/2008 11:36:05 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

This is hardly new ground---Hermann Hesse especially examined the issue in depth in "The Glass Bead Game"--but why does the ridiculous warning "he/she is from the elite" persist in politics?

So we only want dumb people?

It's especially ridiculous when the charge comes from politicians who have inherited their place in society.

Music, we *have* dumb people in office now!
Don't let the "degrees" fool you, they don't prove that someone is "smart" they just prove that they went to some college or another.
I'm just sick and tired of lawyers who went to "YALE" or "HARVARD" in office!
Harry Trueman was a "Haberdasher" and he was a great president.
Andrew Johnson never attended one day of school and taught himself to read.
I think people are hungering for "one of their own" in the W.H. someone who they can relate to.
I've often said that I'd like to see a "truckdriver" in office!
It seems like there's a cookie cutter factory somewhere spitting out politicians!
If someone's biggest "accomplishment" was that they went to "YALE" or "HARVARD" then no thankyou!
Abraham Lincoln taught himself to read by the fire with a piece of coal on the back of a shovel! Copying words out of the bible!
Look at the economy, it isn't *truckdrivers* who've gotten us into such a mess, it's guys who have "degrees" and who all tell us that they're "smart" but if you handed them a hammer and saw they wouldn't know how to use it!
They don't "build" anything they're the "money changers."
Look at the $trillion of pension funds they lost, look at the Wall St. businesses no longer in business and on and on and on.
Seems to me that the "Dumb People" are the ones with "degrees."
What do we do, elect even more dumb people with "degrees?"
Take a walk on Wall Street sometime; "I see Dumb People! They're everywhere!"
I think we need to have a Constitutional Convention; "no "degrees" in government!"
Cripes! And they try to tell us that "you can't simplify things."
Look at what happens when they *complicated things!* A fucking disaster!
And now these same lazy, stupid, suits with "degrees" who don't know how to run a fucking riding lawnmower want *our money?*
"What do we do with the Elite?"
Bush and Kennedy should have been alowed to drink themselves into an early grave 25 years ago!
Where TF did Kennedy ever get a "degree?" Wasn't he expelled from "HARVARD" for *cheating?*
Fuck elections, we need to start appointing good *managers* to the W.H.
Am I close?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/3/2008 12:07:55 AM >

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 3:54:36 AM

Aneirin

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The Role of the elite ? They have no role, only the role they create for themselves.

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