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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 4:05:41 AM   
sravaka


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::shudder::

Next time you need surgery, perhaps you'd prefer someone with riding mower experience to an MD, too.


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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 4:47:44 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The Role of the elite ? They have no role, only the role they create for themselves.


Don't you believe it. Take any western country, constitutional monarchy or republic, there is no difference, you will find an estblishment that bearly changes over the centuries, never mind decades and they have a great influence on the governance of a country and America isn't immune, they have their own.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 4:59:59 AM   
Aneirin


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Yep, I know, like it was these supremacists that.......no, I'll not go there.

Perhaps the reality is in elections, it is irrelevant who you vote for, as things really are not going to change that much, as the elite won't let it.


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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 5:21:21 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

It's called populism: pander to the lowest common denominator and people feel included. In elections, it works, unfortunately.

Yes, and once elected...fuck 'em. Populism is the appeal to the masses (the great unwashed) who become politically irrelevant once in office.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 5:39:17 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

The Role of the elite ? They have no role, only the role they create for themselves.


Don't you believe it. Take any western country, constitutional monarchy or republic, there is no difference, you will find an estblishment that bearly changes over the centuries, never mind decades and they have a great influence on the governance of a country and America isn't immune, they have their own.

I am with meatcleaver here. Interesting how some people first discount the role of the elite when most define elitism as those with serious money, yet then swear we recognize their influence upon power. Then laugh at those that will tell you the truly powerful elite are bankers, industrialists and the unabashed aristocracy of the politicos the most powerful of which can be found in the Bilderberg group.

America is not immune at all and an active participant in this group. This group met last in Chantilly Va. (June 2008) and some tell of a decision by THEM, that bombing Iran was off the table for now. It would have caused that $200 a bbl. oil and ruined many economies. Can't do that and still pay the bankers.

Kinkroids must I keep reminding you...follow the money, always follow the money. When Iran tries to create an oil exchange in EUROS and when their military has the rest of the middle east in a nervous sweat...THAT'S when the US will invade and on behalf of the elitists using their nukes as a very handy ruse.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 11:15:17 AM   
Musicmystery


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Wikipedia: elite


Elite (also spelled Élite) is taken from the Latin, eligere, "to elect". In sociology as in general usage, the élite is a relatively small dominant group within a larger society, which enjoys a privileged status which is upheld by individuals of lower social status within the structure of a group. When applied to an individual, as in the phrase "many elites come from this squad," the usage quite economically both refers to an individual within that class and establishes the speaker as non-elite.

An elite is the result of economic and political forces within a social structure. Upon formation, societies have always had the tendency to stratify due to a combination of politics and ability. The position of an elite at the top of the social strata almost invariably puts it in a position of leadership and often subjects the holders of elite status to pressure to maintain their position as part of the elite. However, in spite of the pressures borne by its members, the existence of the elite as a social stratum is usually unchanged.


Religious elite

In religion the Latin form "elect" is preferred over the French form "elite" in discussing Cathar or Calvinist theology, for examples, and the social structure that is theologically driven. Other religious groups may use expressions like "the saints" to describe the elect.

Perhaps the most globally recognized of all religious elite reside in Rome: the Pope and the Vatican Assembly. While it is true that the Pope is elected by the college of Cardinals, the cardinals who vote for him are appointed by prior papal decrees. The Pope is himself chosen from among the college of Cardinals. Once elected, the Pope is in "office" for the remainder of his life.


Linguistic elite

Some elite groups speak a language that is not shared by the commonality: in Tsarist Russia and in Vietnam the elite spoke French, in the Philippines the elite spoke, and in many cases still speak, Spanish. In Plantagenet England the elite spoke Anglo-Norman, while Finland was ruled by a Swedish-speaking elite up to the beginning of the 20th century (though the Swedish-speaking fraction of the population still enjoys a privileged status) and in Ptolemaic Egypt the elite spoke Koine Greek. In ancient India Sanskrit was spoken by elite class. (See linguistic imperialism.) Elites establish correct usage for the language when they share one with the commonality. Elite usage is reflected in "prescriptive" dictionaries; common usage is reflected in "descriptive" dictionaries. Elites establish cultural canons, which are more widely agreed-upon within the elite and more generally ignored or resented among the non-elite. In the 1950s, the British elite spoke what linguists of the time called U English.


Political elite

Political elites play a more important role in contemporary societies than any other category of elites. Their recruitment and socialization processes have been discussed in hundreds of academic books. But, the concept of political elites is challenged because many citizens believe that politicians don't constitute a true elite. Recent surveys have demonstrated that in most countries in the world, including many European countries, and particularly in old democracies like Great Britain and France, most people don't trust most politicians, who appear as discredited in many surveys done throughout the last two or three decades (Mattei Dogan Ed., Political Mistrust and the Discrediting of Politicians, Brill, 2005)


Business elite

Elite advantages are the usual ones of a dominant social class: easier access to capital and political power, more rigorous education largely free of indoctrination, resulting in cultural influence, and leadership.

Elites may justify their existence based on claims of inherited position; with the rise in authority of science, certain 19th and 20th century elites have embraced pseudoscientific justifications of genetic or racial superiority. In Nazi Germany, genetic superiority was used as the basis of an imagined "Aryan" elite. Elite classes headed by monarchies have traditionally employed religious sanctions for their position.

Meritocracy is a facet of society that tries to promote merit as a route to the elite. Societies such as that of the United States have it in their culture to promote such a facet [see Horatio Alger]. However, while it tends to be imperfect it sheds light as to what many believe to be the "ideal" elite: an elite that is porous and whose members have earned their position as society's top class.

Aristocracy and oligarchy are social systems which feature an elite as the ruling class. An elite group, ranged round the alpha male, is a distinct feature of other closely-related social primates.


Educational elite

Elites are educated to govern. While common public education is often designed to educate the general population to produce knowledgeable and skilled citizens, the elite approach to education is often presented at a more intellectual and demanding level, and is geared to produce leaders of a sort. It is generally defined at education geared at producing an individual capable of thinking at an intellectual level more advanced than the general population, consisting of diverse philosophical ideals and theories in order to enable the elite to logically evaluate situations.


Financial elite

Wealth isn't a sure sign of elite status, as the "new rich" are frequently seen as arriving from non-elite positions. Neither does an elite necessarily show a sense of public obligation (see noblesse oblige).


Military

A military elite is a unit of soldiers or recruits picked for their competence and put in a special elite unit. Elite units enjoy some benefits as compared to other units, at least in the form of higher status, but often also higher pay and better equipment. Napoléon's Imperial Guard would be a good example. Note that the word elite in the military sense is fundamentally different from most other uses of the term. A social or societal elite has usually not been picked by anyone except themselves and do not necessarily make part of the elite due to their competence. Military elite units do not exercise any special leadership over other units. In the societal and social sense of the word, the elite of the army is the officer corps, not the elite units.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 11:42:47 AM   
popeye1250


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Music, nice but that "elite" stuff only works for as long as you can get others to believe your bullshit.
The second someone refers to themselves as "cool", they arent.
It wasn't "Joe the Plumber" who wrecked this economy was it?
No, it was the "smart people" only none of them want to man up to it now do they?
Now that's really not *cool* of them!
Like Marshall Petain said, "the cemetarys are full of indespensable men."

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 11:46:17 AM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Like Marshall Petain said, "the cemetarys are full of indespensable men."


You should think twice before posting quotes by Philippe Pétain  .

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 11:51:39 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

nice but that "elite" stuff only works for as long as you can get others to believe your bullshit.


Here's the question though---why do others disdain anyone labeled "elite"?

Is mediocrity the ideal? Or do people just want to be told whatever suits their unreasoned choices?

After all, an elite ballplayer demonstrates that talent, as do elite musicians, elite mathematicians, etc.

So why the negative connotation of elite?

Instead of "Don't vote for those elitists," why not "Vote for me, the true elite"?

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/3/2008 11:53:24 AM >

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 2:21:14 PM   
popeye1250


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Music, because you then "seperate" yourself from the "common man."
And "common" doesn't neccessarily mean mediocre.
If there's an empty coffee cup on the floor who do you think is going to bend down and pick it up, me or the "elite" in the $800 Hickey-Freeman suit?
"Talk" is cheaper than it's ever been.
Look at Henry Ford and Alexander Bell, they did alright from humble beginnings.
We're supposed to be a country of "The People", not of  elites.
Didn't we leave that shit back in Europe? There's no kings here.
Everytime I hear someone refer to the Kennedy family as, "America's Royalty" my fucking skin crawls!
There's tons of stockbrokers, investment bankers, mortgage brokers etc out there now praying for mediocrity I bet. I'm sure we'll be seeing some of them at Starbucks with scowls on their faces at some point.
Hundreds of thousands of desk jobs have vanished.
Our colleges and universities have become degree factories!
They're supposed to be,"Non-Profits" but they're all looking at the bottom line!
My lawyer told me that; every divorced woman who sold real estate during the day went to law school at night and became lawyers!"
And that was about 12 years ago.
We need to figure out another measure of respectability.
Like Mark Twain said, "we can't all make a living by taking in each other's wash."
We need people in office and govt who care about this country.
That would be my only "requirement."
And anyone who uses the words "world" or "global" should be shunned.
That's not the job description.
We know what doesn't work that's for sure.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/3/2008 2:36:40 PM >


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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 2:30:41 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

"common" doesn't neccessarily mean mediocre.
Look at Henry Ford and Alexander Bell, they did alright from humble beginnings.


But they then excelled, i.e., became elite.

Should a president be the guy down the street? Or should leaders bring something extra?

Nor must these be mutually exclusive categories. Tomorrow, I will vote for the challenger for the House of Representatives--a guy who literally lives down the street and knows the area well (started by serving on the school board). The common man, one of us. But he's ALSO an accomplished lawyer who wants to use that talent to better represent our area--an elite.

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 2:33:57 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

So why the negative connotation of elite?

As it is used in politics, it carries the connotation of someone who holds himself morally superior to the rest of humanity--a mental defect that is rather common among Ivy League lawyer types (which is reason enough for a negative perspective).

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RE: The Role of the Elite - 11/3/2008 2:39:06 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

As it is used in politics, it carries the connotation of someone who holds himself morally superior to the rest of humanity


Doesn't this also describe social conservatives who wish to legislate morality?

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