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Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 9:32:38 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline 		Disclaimer:  I have been reading, as of late, all across the boards and know there are past posts on this topic, but with all the newer influx of folk...I am gonna post on this topic again.  With all the talk of relationships lately and how they work with respect and communication but then I still read talk about a dominant is gonna do as he pleases even if the submissive doesnt like it ..... If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 9:39:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for
1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself...


if the submissive in question entered the relationship with the understanding that the dominant would make changes/demands as they saw fit, then where is the disrespect?

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 9:48:14 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:

If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?

There are exactly three possibilities in every relationship:

1. The dominant will impose new demands over time.
2. The slave will impose new demands over time.
3. Life will impose new demands over time.

These are not exclusive scenarios--and the most common is likely "all of the above". People grow and change. Life itself is growth and change. With growth and change come new needs, new desires, which lead to new demands.

The question is not whether one should impose new demands on a relationship, but how one will deal with the new demands that are certain to be imposed.

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 10:20:04 AM   
ProlificNeeds


Posts: 1061
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline 		If the change falls under the catagory of things we expressly agreed NOT to change.. then I'd be a bit concerned, otherwise no, it's the D's perogative to be in charge and make changes as they see fit.

In some relationships change doesn't need discussion, in some it does, all depends on what agreements your relationship is based off of.

< Message edited by ProlificNeeds -- 11/6/2008 10:21:18 AM >

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 10:27:19 AM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline 		Oh gosh, I knew I should have made a disclaimer, I was even thinking of you 2 when thinking about a disclaimer....   You are correct! Take that factor (*~*) out and I'd love to hear responses. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for
1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself...


if the submissive in question entered the relationship with the *~* understanding that the dominant would make changes/demands as they saw fit, then where is the disrespect?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 10:32:18 AM   
RealSub58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112
People grow and change. Life itself is growth and change. With growth and change come new needs, new desires, which lead to new demands.

 
These are not the sort of demands I speak of ~~ another disclaimer, qualifiying or clarifying?
I am sorry for not saying so initially. If we cannot meet the demands of these types of change, we become "stuck."  I do realize that, fully. 

(in reply to celticlord2112)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 10:37:50 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe it might help to address the question if you give some actual examples of what you are asking about.

Change happens.  Sometimes we don't like the change and sometimes we do.  How it is dealt with is more important to me than whether it is something I do or do not like. 

Personally, I think anyone is fully within their bounds to impose whatever changes or demands they want on their relationships.  It is then up to their partners to decide to accept those changes/demands or not. 

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 10:50:12 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Oh gosh, I knew I should have made a disclaimer, I was even thinking of you 2 when thinking about a disclaimer....   You are correct! Take that factor (*~*) out and I'd love to hear responses. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for
1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself...


if the submissive in question entered the relationship with the *~* understanding that the dominant would make changes/demands as they saw fit, then where is the disrespect?



well, then...and this is purely speculative...
 
if the relationship has been negotiated and established with the understanding that any changes/demands that the dominant party in the relationship wishes to implement will have to be approved by the submissive party in the relationship, before being put into practice, then it seems pretty straightforward that it would be dishonorable/disrespectful...as the dominant would not be abiding by the terms/rules/limits on dominant behavior/areas of control that they agreed upon from the beginning.

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:05:46 AM   
Barelily


Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline 		If the change the Dom is proposing conflicts with something they had discussed prior to entering the relationship, and the slave at least tries the change with an open mind and still doesn't like it, then yea, I would think the slave has the right to say no.


Disclaimer: This post was made in response to the post made by RealSub58 and is based on my opinion and experiences only.



< Message edited by Barelily -- 11/6/2008 11:07:33 AM >

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:34:33 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		Here's my view and experiences on the matter!  A smart Dominant will consider the impact of any new changes on the relationship.   It can either improve or cause added stress to the relationship.  Basically, a Dominant should be in touch with the impact it will have upon their submissive partner. 

For instance, I'm smart enough to know the effects Ball Gags and a steady diet of listening to AC/DC would have upon my partner.  I honestly think it would lead to some issues.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe in the Dominant have the final say upon matters, just that it's wise to take into account the submissives thoughts, views, wants, needs and desires in the process.

Making a decision taking these things into consider, is often the best way to go.  At times there will be differences.  It all depends upon how serious these differences are, and what area of the relationship and life involved.

I basically want to know what I'm getting myself into with the decisions I make.  Nothing like having to deal with one pissed off resentful submissive.

It's impossible to talk about and foresee everything ahead of time in a relationship.  You sort of have to experience things as you go along.  Sure you can get a general idea at the start of a relationship.

In time, one should have a good understanding about their submissive partners limits, what makes them tick.  The same is true with the submissive getting to know their Dominant parter.

Besides what if a submissive partner makes request upon their Dominant partner that might change the dynamics of the relationship?  I have had this happen to me before.  So change can be instigated from either side of the coin.  It takes two people to make the change work.

Those people in TPE relationships, well the Dominant has full control to change anything at any moment without too much question.  Then again TPE or total authority itself was the agreed dynamic to begin with.  So for those D/s relationships I'm with what MercnBeth posted.

Not all D/s relationships are TPE based.  Still even in those ones, it all depends.  There is or are no True correct answers to this question.  It's a question to explore in thought and conversation with your partner though.  :-)   Good to think about when it comes to our own relationships.  A little bad to attempt to apply some universal truth to everybody's D/s relationship.

Personally, if a change would damage a relationship it's probally not a wise move on the Dominants end.  Then again, there are many Dominants making bad choices at times that result in the end of relationships every day.   Who am I to judge them for it?  It's how badly the Dom really wants that change and the reasons for it.   If it's something that their current submissive partner can not deal with, perhaps it time to consider that their submissive partner is not the right one for them.  Same is said with a submissive who can not adapt to the desired change, perhaps they need to realize they can't meet their Doms expectations and it's time for the relationship to end.

So many people litally take D/s or M/s so seriously that they feel their partner does not have the ability to magically unsubmit overnight.  Hell, even slaves have packed their bags and left in the middle of the night on their Master.

Think some people let D/s and BDSM get too much to their minds, that they forget the common sense human factors involved. Again all depends upon the D/s relationship and people involved.   They know best what they can or can not do.

So D/s relationship can end just like a marriage can, that's the reality. 

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:39:25 AM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

If the change the Dom is proposing conflicts with something they had discussed prior to entering the relationship, and the slave at least tries the change with an open mind and still doesn't like it, then yea, I would think the slave has the right to say no.

Slave always has the right to say "No."

Whether she's still a slave after saying "No" is different question entirely.

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:42:20 AM   
JustDarkness


Posts: 1461
Joined: 7/25/2008
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quote:

Imposing changes on a dynamic


Isn't it called dynamic because it can change?

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 11:48:51 AM   
Barelily


Posts: 96
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
quote:

If the change the Dom is proposing conflicts with something they had discussed prior to entering the relationship, and the slave at least tries the change with an open mind and still doesn't like it, then yea, I would think the slave has the right to say no

quote:

Slave always has the right to say "No."

Whether she's still a slave after saying "No" is different question entirely.


I agree but I'm the type to always want to try new things, so "no" isn't really in my vocabulary. Theres "maybe, let me think on it, how fast can we implement this and oh hell yea!", but it has to be pretty bad to get a straight up "no" without trying it lol 


< Message edited by Barelily -- 11/6/2008 11:52:49 AM >

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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 12:21:16 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Disclaimer:  I have been reading, as of late, all across the boards and know there are past posts on this topic, but with all the newer influx of folk...I am gonna post on this topic again.  With all the talk of relationships lately and how they work with respect and communication but then I still read talk about a dominant is gonna do as he pleases even if the submissive doesnt like it ..... If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?


Not really, especially if he has stated from the beginning that such changes possibly will occure if and when the right situation of persons present themselves. Remember regular subtle changes in the dynamic occure as everyone changes over time and the focus may alter from time to time (EG: The focuc may move from conscenrating on the domestic aspects of service to the BDSM play or the sexual aspect), such changes tend to be cyclic. So much depends on how the dynamic was set up, how it has evolved and the participants. Remember in a M/s dynamic the whole things revolved what pleases the Master/Mistress, it is rarely if ever completely fair and just but slaves should jolly well know this before they accept a slave collar and if they can't handlke it they are probably better suited to a D/s dynamic where everything is open for debate and negotiation.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 12:24:30 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Disclaimer:  I have been reading, as of late, all across the boards and know there are past posts on this topic, but with all the newer influx of folk...I am gonna post on this topic again.  With all the talk of relationships lately and how they work with respect and communication but then I still read talk about a dominant is gonna do as he pleases even if the submissive doesnt like it ..... If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?


It depends what type of change. Not all demands and changes are for the worse or would automatically be seen that way. I wouldn't think that making a new demand, per se, would be disrespectful or selfish and might very well be quite the opposite.


agirl.






(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 12:37:15 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I think a smart dominant would discuss major changes instead of springing them on the sub. If for example, they agreed no sharing her, then coming home with six other guys and saying "I changed my mind, we're holding a gang bang right now" is not the brightest idea. For some people, the response to that would be to crawl out the bathroom window and run to the police station.

Remember, the sub can always vote with her feet.

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Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 1:19:11 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Disclaimer:  I have been reading, as of late, all across the boards and know there are past posts on this topic, but with all the newer influx of folk...I am gonna post on this topic again.  With all the talk of relationships lately and how they work with respect and communication but then I still read talk about a dominant is gonna do as he pleases even if the submissive doesnt like it ..... If the dominant suddenly imposes a new demand upon the submissive which changes the dynamic of the situation and relationship, just because he is dominant, how is this respect for1) the submissive 2) the relationship or 3) even him/herself. Isn't this more of an inconsiderate cowards way of selfishness?


It depends on the context of the situation and the dynamic.  If the dominant entered into a D/s dynamic in which it was stated that every single change he made in the dynamic or every single demand...if it is a new one...must first be discussed with the submissive, then it shows little respect although as the dominant, he does have that right.  The submissive can disagree with that right and walk away or fight but it is something that most dominants I have spoken to consider their right.  Personally, I can't imagine any dominant, of the ones I know---including myself---, that would enter into such a dynamic.  I enter into a dynamic in which one belief is agreed to...if you agree to submit, then do so; if I agree to dominate, then I will do so...and one basic premise is agreed to...there is room for two partners in the relationship and in the dynamic and one leader.  That leader is NOT the submissive.

(in reply to RealSub58)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 2:22:39 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		If M made *selfish* demands that changed the relationship fundamentally, he wouldn't BE the person I had come to expect and who I had grown to trust.

It's all very well to say, *the dom is going to do what he pleases even if the sub doesn't like it*. Well, yes......that's the case in my relationship.......But I didn't link up with someone that is likely to change our situation on a huge scale in some ridiculous way for a *cos I'm dominant* type of reason.

agirl




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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 2:24:26 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		In all honesty, this is no different than being 'the boss' at a job (or the president, or any other leadership position). There are people who relish that power, and plan to use it to get whatever they want, whenever they want it. They have a short-sighted view of life, and tend to wear out their welcome (and their belongings) through poor consideration long before they would normally be lost.

Then you have the person who is a skilled leader, boss, president, or d-type. Xhe considers all the risks and benefits of a situation before making decisions, makes sure to plan for things like attrition, wear-and-tear, and time for staff to come up to speed on new policies. Even though xhe doesn't -have- to, xhe often takes time to announce (and sometimes even -explain-) decisions ahead of time, and welcomes legitimate questions about how certain changes might impact hir staff and facilities. Xhe looks at the big picture, and takes the long view. Xhe plans for the future, and encourages hir staff to take a long view as well. Xhe is realistic about expectations, firm but not nasty about mistakes, and gives people the opportunity to take responsibility for their own success.

In fact, the parallels are -so- close that it might not be a bad idea for those considering a Ds lifestyle to take a course in leadership training or a Carnegie course on management behaviors (regardless of which side of the collar, because being a good boss is completely wasted if one doesn't have interested, motivated staff who can see the big picture, and take the long view, themselves!)


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Imposing changes on a dynamic - 11/6/2008 2:39:46 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

In all honesty, this is no different than being 'the boss' at a job (or the president, or any other leadership position). There are people who relish that power, and plan to use it to get whatever they want, whenever they want it. They have a short-sighted view of life, and tend to wear out their welcome (and their belongings) through poor consideration long before they would normally be lost.

Then you have the person who is a skilled leader, boss, president, or d-type. Xhe considers all the risks and benefits of a situation before making decisions, makes sure to plan for things like attrition, wear-and-tear, and time for staff to come up to speed on new policies. Even though xhe doesn't -have- to, xhe often takes time to announce (and sometimes even -explain-) decisions ahead of time, and welcomes legitimate questions about how certain changes might impact hir staff and facilities. Xhe looks at the big picture, and takes the long view. Xhe plans for the future, and encourages hir staff to take a long view as well. Xhe is realistic about expectations, firm but not nasty about mistakes, and gives people the opportunity to take responsibility for their own success.

In fact, the parallels are -so- close that it might not be a bad idea for those considering a Ds lifestyle to take a course in leadership training or a Carnegie course on management behaviors (regardless of which side of the collar, because being a good boss is completely wasted if one doesn't have interested, motivated staff who can see the big picture, and take the long view, themselves!)



This is probably a clear example of what I've come to expect in my relationship. My life isn't run on M's whims as a dom but on well thought out and considered plans to enhance my life and his, ultimately.

agirl

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)
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