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RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 9:33:00 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

Do you know how much it costs to run an Air Craft Carrier for one day?


Hell, I'm still aghast at what it costs to run my Yaris for a day...


(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 9:37:53 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		What the hell is a "Yaris?"
You can see pics of my car in my profile.

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 9:39:02 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		I'm still waiting for an honest answer as to why Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded in the first place.

Not that I'm holding my breath, like..

_____________________________

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also Facebook
http://stella.baker.tripod.com/
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(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 9:46:32 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		With Dick Cheney out of the Vice President's office, we might finally start making decisions about Iraq that are in our national interest--and not the private interest of Dick Cheney's corporate and quail-hunting buddies.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 10:08:26 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Iraqis are already coming to new agreements, and looks like a 16 month timetable:
Obama Victory Alters the Tenor of Iraqi Politics

---from the New York Times



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 11/6/2008 10:09:13 PM >

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 10:17:40 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		You know, the last Marine who was killed in Vietnam came from my hometown, Woburn, Massachusetts, Charles McMann. (Or McMahon, not sure of the spelling.)
He's buried very near my father in the Veterans Section of a cemetary there.
I wonder who the next "Mrs. McMahon" will be in sixteen months?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 10:37:32 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		NPR stories on Iraq, Afghanistan, Obama's Pentagon picks

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:21:17 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I'm still waiting for an honest answer as to why Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded in the first place.

Not that I'm holding my breath, like..



I`ll try my best stella.Good question.

We`re in Afghanistan/Pakistan(w/ you Brits,the French,the rest of NATO) because of bin-laden.

It was mishandled from the start and may never work out at this point.We`ll at least have someone interested in resolving it.We`ll know more soon.

Iraq was a fascist attempt to use our military to benefit business interests and empire build,.....gone bad.               Deadly bad.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 11/6/2008 11:28:03 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:28:17 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Just curious but if  US troops are still fighting in Iraq say in 2010 will "you"
still till be supporting the democrats and Obama and the mission?


     The Democrats have had the power every day to force our troops to leave Iraq for almost 700 days.  Have they?

       Want some amusing reading?  Dig into the archives here from 2 years ago, right before the last mid-term election.  Some people actually believed they would do it.

      And Obama will have a plan to get us out, if only we elect him for a second term.     

NO they haven't. No absolute pull-out or defunding bill ever reached the president's desk. Why ? Because it takes 60 votes to invoke cloture of a fillibuster that isn't a filibuster at all.

Somehow we must force these charlatans that to actually filibuster...one must stand on the congressional floor and talk and not hold bills up from the golf course.

Haven't you all been keeping track ? A single senator can put a 'hold' on any bill by invoking a 'filibuster.'

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:35:40 PM   
smilingjaguar


Posts: 271
Status: offline 		I think the December 31, 2011, date is acceptable as we would be drawing down our forces the entire time.  I support an intelligent, well-planned withdrawal from Iraq.  I WISH the best option was just waving goodbye and hauling our troops the hell out of there, but it isn't for the best just as being there indefinitely with no plans on leaving isn't for the best.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:36:10 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You know, the last Marine who was killed in Vietnam came from my hometown, Woburn, Massachusetts, Charles McMann. (Or McMahon, not sure of the spelling.)
He's buried very near my father in the Veterans Section of a cemetary there.
I wonder who the next "Mrs. McMahon" will be in sixteen months?

And the difference between that person and any other new widow between now and then would be what ?

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:39:39 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Why,exactly, are we in Afghanistan? Or any of the other 40 odd countries around the world?
Bring em home let all of "those" folks solve their own problems.  The U.N. is the worlds police force not the U.S.  That is one of the reasons the U.N. was formed.
 
H.
 

The UN is impotent without us and our military.

(in reply to HunterS)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:51:12 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline 		In the race to the bottom,small details like "super majorities" and other Senate,House-o-Reps rules get lost.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For people really wanting to know why a 51% majority doesn`t give majority rule,....

The Senate has a requirnment that a 60% majority is needed to override a filabuster or presidential veto.It`s refered to as a super majority and under Senate rules,represents/needs 60 Senate votes.

Even having a 60 vote paretisan split doesn`t guarentee anything.

Dems could vote the other way,depending.And/or Republicans might vote with the majority ,which makes having a partisan majority irelivant,depending.



_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:51:14 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

I'm still waiting for an honest answer as to why Iraq and Afghanistan were invaded in the first place.

Not that I'm holding my breath, like..


Revenge.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/6/2008 11:52:25 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

In the race to the bottom,small details like "super majorities" and other Senate,House-o-Reps rules get lost.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For people really wanting to know why a 51% majority doesn`t give majority rule,....

The Senate has a requirnment that a 60% majority is needed to override a filabuster or presidential veto.It`s refered to as a super majority and under Senate rules,represents/needs 60 Senate votes.

Even having a 60 vote paretisan split doesn`t guarentee anything.

Dems could vote the other way,depending.And/or Republicans might vote with the majority ,which makes having a partisan majority irelivant,depending.




Filabuster is 3/5 .. to override a veto is 2/3.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Owner59)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/7/2008 1:47:47 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterS

Why,exactly, are we in Afghanistan? Or any of the other 40 odd countries around the world?
Bring em home let all of "those" folks solve their own problems.  The U.N. is the worlds police force not the U.S.  That is one of the reasons the U.N. was formed.
 
H.
 

The UN is impotent without us and our military.


If Bush listened to the UN, the US wouldn't be in the mess that is called Iraq.

The UN is not an organisation independent of its members and it is only as strong as its members so when its strongest member disregards the organisation, then the UN is neutered.

However, I think I am correct in saying the US never allows its troops to wear blue hats.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/7/2008 1:55:49 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Just curious but if  US troops are still fighting in Iraq say in 2010 will "you"
still till be supporting the democrats and Obama and the mission?


Schwartzkopf said, the American army in Iraq will be like a mamoth in a tar pit and how right he was. The problem the US has if it pulls out in the near future is that Iraq will probably collapse. The US is dealing directly with the sunni insurgents that changed sides and put them on the US payroll so the Sunnis have no real dealings with the Iraqi government in Bagdad. The Iraqi government only wants to integrate 20% of the Sunni fighters into the army or police so that is going to leave 80% of the Sunni fighters with guns and no jobs and no money. The other problem the US refuses to confront, is that the Maliki government is totally and utterly corrupt and that corruption is feeding discontent into the Iraqi people. A probblem it refused to confront in Vietnam as well.

The chances are, Iran will end up with more influence in Iraq than the US if there are no US troops there. That doesn't bode well since Obama said he wouldn't allow Iran to have nukes. The logic of Iran's retaliation to any US or Israeli attack in the region is to sow chaos which it is capable of doing.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 11/7/2008 2:00:30 AM >

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to FatDomDaddy)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/7/2008 2:17:46 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The only good thing going for the middle east is that Obama appears to be a thoughtful, intelligent man that appears to be a strategic thinker and he has buckets full of good will from around the world so let's hope he is as good as he appears to be.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/7/2008 4:57:29 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Why worry about what equipment we leave behind. Look how much the North Koreans got. Did any of that do them any good. Vietnam is another place. What good did all of that do them. Pack up the troops and bring them home and leave the junk there. If needed we can always bomb the shit out of the equipment left behind. Think about it. Where are they going to get parts when the equipment breaks down.  

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: So when are we getting out of Iraq? (A Question to ... - 11/7/2008 5:39:38 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Why worry about what equipment we leave behind. Look how much the North Koreans got. Did any of that do them any good. Vietnam is another place. What good did all of that do them. Pack up the troops and bring them home and leave the junk there. If needed we can always bomb the shit out of the equipment left behind. Think about it. Where are they going to get parts when the equipment breaks down.  


One American commentator said on TV the other night in regard to US wars, when he was questioned about Obama's probable Iraqi policy. We start wars as a matter of policy and when we can't finish them, we blame the people we pretend to support for not having the backbone to finish what we started.

Iraq, is America's shit (and lapdogs). America (and lapdog) should pay the Iraqis signiciant compensation for the deaths and destruction they have caused and not simply run away.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 60
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